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Meh, thats why I dislike heo registration. I'd much prefer to be an unregistered vigilante. It gets in the way of butt-kicking for justice when your are obligated to fight on the side of the law. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Crey ARE NOT a criminal organisation. Not in the same way as, say, the Council are. If they were, they'd have been shut down by the military and taken apart, not allowed to continue marketing products. Unless you have clear evidence of their wrongdoing, you can't just raid their facilities any more so than you can raid a Portal Corp facility because you needed to travel to Upsilon Beta 5 on the cheap.
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Then again, maybe the heros and Crey are just fighting a shadow war. Even though I've apprehended the countess years ago, crey snipers still seem to pop up alot. I'd almost say they still have it in for me
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
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How about casually fireballing them from the sky in passing for the badge credit?
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Dressing as a gang member is not a crime. However, if you approach these loiterers, they will pull weapons on you and attack - and assault is a crime. Attacking before they attack you is questionable, though.
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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This. SuperFerret is not beholden to the letter of the law, rather he upholds the morality of "don't be a jackass and you won't have a seven foot tall weasel-man sending you to the hospital". |
Originally Posted by ebon3
Meh, thats why I dislike heo registration. I'd much prefer to be an unregistered vigilante. It gets in the way of butt-kicking for justice when your are obligated to fight on the side of the law.
Then again, maybe the heros and Crey are just fighting a shadow war. Even though I've apprehended the countess years ago, crey snipers still seem to pop up alot. I'd almost say they still have it in for me |
He's not human anyway, and while there are laws in human that say what happens when a non-human kills or attacks a human, the law doesn't really restrict non-humans from breaking and entering (or else Crey should be prosecuting all those rats who are trespassing in their warehouses).
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So he's Bueno Excellente?
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Originally Posted by PSLAnimal
My main is not evil, but he does harbor Perverse Sexual Lust, from which comes his might.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Some of it I run fairly often. It's an interesting trade-off of wanting to get myself to the twenties as soon as I can, but knowing there are a couple of important things that need to be completed first. Vexingly, they cannot be rushed.| Incidentally, when was the last time you actually ran low level hero content? |
So, yeah, in-game it's well justified. Definitely. But, there are certainly times when I'm travelling from point A to point B, and I notice a small group of people standing near each other. As I approach, they react such that I can justify getting my stabby on. But sometimes, that's game mechanics retroactively approving of your actions, no? When I drop onto a bunch of crooks arranging a drug deal, I didn't know what they were doing when I decided to move over to them. I moved, and then was told they were bad people, who I could hit.
It's... a bit backwards to me. And, to over-analyze just a little bit, from an in-game perspective, I'm accusing these people of crimes, and then looking for evidence, not finding evidence and then accusing. Which is really just a small puddleskip away from some bad things, no?
Regarding Cimerora, please remember that Imperious, Daedalus, Airlia and the other Cimerorans are not strictly good or evil.
Their causes, even Airlia's, are generally just, but they come from a different time, and they aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty in ways modern heroes would be uncomfortable with. Please remember that when doing those arcs >.<
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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Exactly! Imperious mentions to villains that he's perfectly okay with them wantonly killing, as long as it's his enemies. This because of an effect known as Values Dissonance.|
Originally Posted by Aisynia
Regarding Cimerora, please remember that Imperious, Daedalus, Airlia and the other Cimerorans are not strictly good or evil.
Their causes, even Airlia's, are generally just, but they come from a different time, and they aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty in ways modern heroes would be uncomfortable with. Please remember that when doing those arcs >.< |
It was an early gimmick for my main katana scrapper because he was a noble from Feudal Japan, shy of attacking other nobles, he WAS the law of his area, and in his backstory he got into A LOT of trouble because he killed some Vazhilok Doctors who were about to CUT HIS FRIENDS OPEN in front him after finding a metric buttload of evidence that supported that they had killed plenty of other people.
So in his mind, he has no regrets about killing them, but he does know that in the modern era, life taken for life taken does not equal justice like it used to in his days.
He's often still conflicted by this, nevermind that quite a few of the other heroes around him have lectured him on not killing and then proceed to go and blow up a council base.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Clockwork are "robots," it's ok to kill robots unless they're sentient androids like Citadel. When you find out what they really are it's even more ok to kill them.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
The non-human low-levels, the clockworks, are always taking stuff apart, and are attributed to a crime-wave that started before the events of Paragon City as the players encountered them start.
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| Of the other low-level enemies, the Vahzilok and the Circle of Thorns, they are also of an established criminal wave. Again though, the mob animations and chat dialog have been adjusted so that there's no confusion that these are simply people dressing UP as either villain group. |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Evil enough to want to kill Protean for indirectly causing the death of his bestest buddy in the world(multiverse?)before defiling his corpse with Nova Form T_T
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In the comics, the majority of super-heroes have no authority at all. They're masked vigilantes. And EEEEVIL corporations are EEEVIL so that makes it all right. |
Samuel_Tow thinks too hard: For no reason and with no authority to do so? |
But even Superman and Capt. America have done it from time to time. And there's always a reason, even in the case you're talking about, although often a flimsy reason.Quote:
| Makes me glad I don't read comic books, then. |
Dec out.
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While dressing as a member of a known criminal organization is not illegal per se, it's certainly cause for "investigation". And as you note, when you "investigate", they attack.
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SpittingTrashcan gets one addition: Dressing as a gang member is not a crime. However, if you approach these loiterers, they will pull weapons on you and attack - and assault is a crime. Attacking before they attack you is questionable, though. |
Dec out.
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Which actually made me realize that Joe is very amusingly named. |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
He's from a three mission arc from Crimson. First mission is saving Candice Boxer.
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You rescue Candice Boxer, who reveals that her son Joe was kidnapped.
They never actually refer to him as such, but if Candice is his mother, then his given name is Joe Boxer.
(if you don't get the joke, Joe Boxer is a brand of men's underwear)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This is an entirely reasonable explanation for why Daedalus's plan is "steal stuff". It is not a very good explanation for why your character blithely goes along with it, despite being somewhat more acquainted with the laws and mores of the modern era. Entirely independently of whether breaking into Crey property is in itself an immoral act by whatever standard you may choose to apply, the thought of the criminal and civil trials that Crey will gleefully put a blatant trespasser through should give your character some pause. If you think Crey's Paragon Protectors are dangerous, you haven't seen their rabid attack lawyers...
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Originally Posted by Aisynia
Regarding Cimerora, please remember that Imperious, Daedalus, Airlia and the other Cimerorans are not strictly good or evil.
Their causes, even Airlia's, are generally just, but they come from a different time, and they aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty in ways modern heroes would be uncomfortable with. Please remember that when doing those arcs >.< |
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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But that mission comes after you're done the Crey arcs in the levelling timeline - by the time you help Daedalus, the game is assuming that you're totally aware of Crey and know the truth about them.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
This is an entirely reasonable explanation for why Daedalus's plan is "steal stuff". It is not a very good explanation for why your character blithely goes along with it, despite being somewhat more acquainted with the laws and mores of the modern era. Entirely independently of whether breaking into Crey property is in itself an immoral act by whatever standard you may choose to apply, the thought of the criminal and civil trials that Crey will gleefully put a blatant trespasser through should give your character some pause. If you think Crey's Paragon Protectors are dangerous, you haven't seen their rabid attack lawyers...
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I never thought you'd be the one defending the idea of paying evil onto evil, GG.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But that mission comes after you're done the Crey arcs in the levelling timeline - by the time you help Daedalus, the game is assuming that you're totally aware of Crey and know the truth about them.
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Crey are a criminal organization - impounding their tech is ok.
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Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
I never thought you'd be the one defending the idea of paying evil onto evil, GG.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But beating up potentially innocent and unaware civilians to steal it? Or is it okay, but only so long as you call it something more ambiguous? Artifact relocation? Targeted acquisition? Resource management? Pressing need? Greater good?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Crey are a criminal organization - impounding their tech is ok.
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I must have missed all the innocent and unaware civilians when I did it - the Crey staff all pulled guns on me the moment they saw me - they didn't even give me the chance to explain that I was only there to ask if I could borrow the power supply item for an important time travel related security issue which they, as a company devoted to the public good, would surely want to stop happening too - they just opened fire, so I had to defend myself.
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Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
But beating up potentially innocent and unaware civilians to steal it? Or is it okay, but only so long as you call it something more ambiguous? Artifact relocation? Targeted acquisition? Resource management? Pressing need? Greater good?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Don't forget beating up the groups in Croatoa, most of whom (except the Red Caps) are relatively innocent when you get down to it. The missions are mostly justified, but that doesn't stop you for beating them up for standing around in the forest.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
My main is a hero. Just not yours. Some people might not see that as very heroic.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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There exist corporations right now which have been implicated beyond any reasonable doubt in criminal acts. You may be within convenient distance of several of their offices. As an experiment, you could try impounding some of their computers. For added verisimilitude, bring along a rifle and shoot anyone who gets in your way. If you get in any trouble, just explain that you're a hero and that you need those computers to fight crime. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Crey are a criminal organization - impounding their tech is ok.
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Let me know how that turns out.
(Yes, this scenario relies on a context in which armed vigilantes do not commonly patrol the streets for added shock value - but even then, there is a bright line that the game usually draws between trespassing to investigate evidence of a crime, and assaulting to steal what you want, regardless of how good or bad the people you are stealing from are. This mission is notable in being an exception to that rule.)
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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...I thought the whole point of CoX was to subtract verisimilitude.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
For added verisimilitude
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For my part, I'm looking forward to the options of Vigilantes and Rogues, as well as arcs with varying moral choices.
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See, this ties back into my earlier thought on retroactive vindication. Sure, the game let you know that it was okay to take what you wanted because the people you were taking them from were jerks, but you didn't know that when you left. You were sent off to go get something, and not to take 'no' for an answer. You went to Crey offices with the intent of committing an immoral act, and because most people are capable of considering morality as context-sensitive, you were given a justification to continue.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I must have missed all the innocent and unaware civilians when I did it - the Crey staff all pulled guns on me the moment they saw me - they didn't even give me the chance to explain that I was only there to ask if I could borrow the power supply item for an important time travel related security issue which they, as a company devoted to the public good, would surely want to stop happening too - they just opened fire, so I had to defend myself.
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I'm not saying that the action isn't necessary, or that it doesn't benefit more people than it harms. Just, don't confuse 'excusable' with 'moral'. Theft is excusable. It isn't moral.
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But he doesn't tell us to steal it - he just says to get what he needs - so it's not our fault that Crey isn't interested in discussing a load of their tech |
Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
See, this ties back into my earlier thought on retroactive vindication. Sure, the game let you know that it was okay to take what you wanted because the people you were taking them from were jerks, but you didn't know that when you left. You were sent off to go get something, and not to take 'no' for an answer. You went to Crey offices with the intent of committing an immoral act, and because most people are capable of considering morality as context-sensitive, you were given a justification to continue.
I'm not saying that the action isn't necessary, or that it doesn't benefit more people than it harms. Just, don't confuse 'excusable' with 'moral'. Theft is excusable. It isn't moral. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
You forgot to mention that he's Cimeroran Positron, and he's just as savvy as the real Positron.
Anyway. My evil heroes are the ones who are Going Rogue. Also, I don't actually consider them 'evil' just overly zealous about upholding the law.
Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!