Failure of the Developers to Implement Changes.
ok
Only two comments here, from me.
1: How is taking something that increases survivability lowering your effectiveness? My highest Energy Aura is a 20 brute, so I don't have much practice (She's an energy/energy, and I have yet to feel weak on her). but to me this seems like a rather silly thing to say.
2: Considering the game is, was, and to the best of my knowledge will always be balanced around SOs, how does complaining about an IO'd out scrapper being as survivable as a tanker help your argument in any way. I rolled a tanker because I wanted someone who could be a tanker; She can get aggro, (sort of, she's WP/) hold onto it, and she doesn't die unless I royally screw up with her. Sure, she solos slow, but that's why I only team with her, and I feel that there's no problem with that.
Now maybe I don't have the same point of view you do. I don't know...But these two just seem strange to me.
50s: Yumi Eryuha-Arch/Energy, Mirria-Thugs/Dark, Meyami Kitsuna-Claws/SR, Celesta Seusen-SS/Invuln, Lady Mirriella-Illusion/Empathy
Arc 503982 "Dimension Xi Epsilon 22-10" Part one of a multi-part arc.
I think the devs failed because they gave us so little to do over the last year. Not too worried about the OP's points.
Only two comments here, from me.
1: How is taking something that increases survivability lowering your effectiveness? My highest Energy Aura is a 20 brute, so I don't have much practice (She's an energy/energy, and I have yet to feel weak on her). but to me this seems like a rather silly thing to say. 2: Considering the game is, was, and to the best of my knowledge will always be balanced around SOs, how does complaining about an IO'd out scrapper being as survivable as a tanker help your argument in any way. I rolled a tanker because I wanted someone who could be a tanker; She can get aggro, (sort of, she's WP/) hold onto it, and she doesn't die unless I royally screw up with her. Sure, she solos slow, but that's why I only team with her, and I feel that there's no problem with that. Now maybe I don't have the same point of view you do. I don't know...But these two just seem strange to me. |
Point 2: I was efficient with Defenders prior to their inherent change. It doesnt mean they didnt need one. The Tanker currently has no inherent that increases personal suviviability when solo, unlike everyone else.
While I would like Fire Aura, EA and EM brought to more "fun" levels (and I think some others might too) You're going about it all wrong. Your best bet is to pick a power or a set and do what the scrapper forums did with the old MoG. Complain for years about it and have a thread about it needing changed (that would get some amount of discussion) every few days/weeks.
Things have been changed, devs do listen. Calling out "failures" rather than posting ideas or suggestions that would be 1. balanced 2. Easy to implement and 3. Worth the time is the way I'd go about it. (Unless it has anything to do with PvP :P )
EA did get a heal and a little toxic Res but I agree the set is still not fun. Fire got the recharge on healing flames seriously buffed as well as some slow res and I forget if there was anything else.
Other sets have seen some love too, Archery for blasters, Invulnerability, Elec Armor got energize which made a pretty big difference for the set. Sets like Claws, MA, Katana had some buffs. Scrapper shield charge got a Major buff that I think ended up being too much. Warmace had some powers reworked to make it stronger. Defiance for blasters got reworked. So did vigilance. I'm probably missing some but the point is, Devs do implement changes over time. They have changed some of the sets you specifically mentioned even.
ON the subject of stuff the devs have failed to touch in the past few years
MM's Mercs: Serum
One of the major negative factors of this game to me is the absurdly long time it takes the developers to Buff things
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ENERGY MELEE
Energy Melee currently suffers from dismal AOE performance while no longer having an edge in single target damage since the weakening of Energy Transfer. |
ENERGY AURA
The buff to Energy Aura was an insult to my intelligence. |
The buff to Energy Aura is undeniable evidence that the Devs are afraid to overpower things through buff
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NO REAL TANKER INHERENT
Disregarding Kheldians and Dominators whos Domination I view as an overall disadvantage, every single AT on this game, now including Defenders , has a inherent that improves personal survivability. |
Also, there's no disadvantage to Domination, and I shall now laugh at you for claiming so: hah!
FIRE AURA
Fire Aura has been left to rot in inferiority for the last 4 or 5 years. |
Fire Aura still to this day continues to have no knockback protections and impractical immobile protection.
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Note that I don't mention FA trading off immobilize protection, because it's there. The fact that it can be frustrating to use wasn't considered in the original design. This is similar to the original design for Unyielding (then Unyielding Stance), which offered all your mez protection in one place, but you could move when it was on.
There is reason to the madness, but I agree that FA could stand an improvement.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
<QR>
Skipping powers in a set and then complaining it sucks is rather silly.
Skipping powers in a set and then complaining it sucks is rather silly. |
I'm not big into melee characters, but I believe single-target DPS charts still show EM as the leader. |
On Fiery Aura, Castle has recently stated that he's looking at it.
On tanks, it is my belief that after GR goes live, we will see some adjustment made to tanks, but I do not believe it will affect their damage output.
As for the rest, a post like the OP's will not sway the developers. It comes across as too much an attack rather than a request. A much more convincing case for change will have to be made before they will listen.
Be well, people of CoH.
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
My thoughts:
ENERGY MELEE Energy Melee currently suffers from dismal AOE performance while no longer having an edge in single target damage since the weakening of Energy Transfer. Other attacks sets can match Energy Melee in single target damage but all have better AOE capabilities. This makes the set without reason to exist as other choices are more logical for overall effectiveness. Despite outcry from the games population, the developers have done nothing to remedy EMs poor condition. The set needs more AOE capabilities , both damage and mitigation. Whirling Hands should be buffed or ET or TF turned into some form of AOE. |
ENERGY AURA The buff to Energy Aura was an insult to my intelligence. Energy Aura needed a Reconstruction like clone or some other unique power to significantly improve its mitigation. What it got was Toxic resistance in one of its passives, a power which was logical to skip, and a weak heal in Energy Drain that requires multiple opponents to become effective , which makes it pathetic against difficult 1 v 1 fights. Again, what good would placing toxic resistance in the auto passive? So now in order to get the toxic resistance players have to invest in a power they previously skipped, thus weakening their build overall. The buff to Energy Aura is undeniable evidence that the Devs are afraid to overpower things through buff so they take inadequate steps to strengthen underperforming sets. |
NO REAL TANKER INHERENT Disregarding Kheldians and Dominators whos Domination I view as an overall disadvantage, every single AT on this game, now including Defenders , has a inherent that improves personal survivability. But not tanks. Apparently most people think Tanks dont need one but with the implementation of IOs , I feel they are wrong. Other than concept, why play a Tanker when you can have a soft capped Scrapper ? There is no logical reason. IOs have now made it possible for Scrappers to achieve high levels of survivability to match Tankers but they have not made it possible for Tankers to achieve Damage that can match Scrappers. What Tankers should have is an inherent , other than the Taunt from Gauntlet needed for teams, that improves their durability. One suggestion I have made is for every attack a tanker makes , he has a chance of landing a Accuracy Debuff and a Damage Debuff in a small AOE around his target. It should be both so it can help both defense and resistance characters equally. |
FIRE AURA Fire Aura has been left to rot in inferiority for the last 4 or 5 years. Its condition is so obvious to people with general knowledge of all defensive sets that the situation is unacceptable and shows that the developers are either too afraid of overpowering things through buff, the same as with Energy Aura, or mistakenly think Fire Aura is balanced. Burn has proven to be worthless without an immobile since it scatters mobs and does little damage. Its immobile protection is impractical as well and will just divide a player on when to use it. Imagine having immobile protection in Foot Stoop or Shield Charge. That is how stupid it is. Consume is a poor endurance recovery power since it tries to do too many things at once. Its recharge is 3 times that of power sink and requires accuracy slotting because it does damage which means it requires a tohitcheck. So the truth is that by doing damage Consume causes players to do less damage overall since they lack an effective endurance recovery power. Fire Aura still to this day continues to have no knockback protections and impractical immobile protection. Fire Aura is a set which lies to the player. Conceptually it sacrifices defense for damage, but the only damage buff in FA is Fiery Embrace. Blazing Aura isnt anything special as other defensive secondarys have damage toggles and Rise of the Phoenix requires a player to die every time to use it. So what we have is a fragile set with little offensive ability to make up for it. Now with the existence of Shields, Fire Aura is obsolete. The ways to improve Fire Aura are numerous. I immediately support Burn to me made into an effective attack again while Immobile Protection be placed in Plasma Shield. Consumes recharge should be reduced, it should do no damage and be auto-hit. Fiery Embrace also may need looking into, most notably its recharge. Since the game isnt balanced on IOs either, Fire Aura should have Knock Back Protection since Acrobatics now is too weak. |
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My thoughts:
I would personally like to see the set regain it's edge in single target damage, rather than make it another AoE-centric set. I don't have any Energy Aura characters, but I'll concede the set still has a bad reputation. At the same time, I've seen some amazing things done with the set. I'll ask you this: rather than increasing the set's survivability, how about increasing its utility and flavour? This was a dead horse long before I took up the cause. I agree with some of your reasoning for them needing an Inherent improvement, but I disagree on your suggestion. At the 6th Anniversary event, Castle admitted he "was concerned" about Tankers vs Brutes with the upcomming side swapping in GR. I plan to sit back and watch if that goes anywhere. I've personally never had issues with Firey Aura. I wouldn't turn down Knock resistance, however. . |
Like you, many people want to see Energy Melee brought back to its former glory in single target damage. I , however, disagree and think on the overall bigger picture it is more benefical for EM to have better AOE capabilties on a game with team play. Simply reversing the nerf by giving ET the old animation will do nothing to solve EMs teaming deficiency.
Lets now look at both Blue side Melee ATs. Since Scrappers have an inherent to increase their damage , I feel it is reasonable to think Tankers should have an inherent to increase their durability. Even when not factoring the added imbalance of IOs, Scrappers have High Base damage with Medium Hit points with an inherent that increases damage while Tankers have just Medium Base Damage and High Hit points with no inherent to increase durability. The score is Scrappers 3 , Tankers 2 . The logic is undeniable. Tankers should have a better inherent that coincides with their design purpose, to absorb damage.
I , however, disagree and think on in the overall bigger picture it is more benefical for EM to have better AOE capabilties on a game with team play.
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Simply reversing the nerf by giving ET the old animation will do nothing to solve EMs teaming deficiency. |
Lets now look at both Blue side Melee ATs. Since Scrappers have an inherent to increase their damage , I feel it is reasonable to think Tankers should have an inherent to increase their durability. |
Even when not factoring the added imbalance of IOs, Scrappers have High Base damage with Medium Hit points with an inherent that increases damage while Tankers have just Medium Base Damage and High Hit points with no inherent to increase durability. The score is Scrappers 3 , Tankers 2 The logic is undeniable. Tankers should have a better inherent. |
I would not vote for any new or changed inherent for Tankers that doesn't increase their damage either directly or indirectly with something like a stacking -Res debuff. It could be similar to the Defender's recent buff in that its strongest when solo and weakens with large teams.
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You dont see the bigger picture I think or are not thinking outside the box. Domination is not a inherent that makes Dominators rise above all other ATs, it is an inherent that brings them even with all other ATs. No amount of buff or IOs slotting can hide the design defect of Doctor Jekyll/Mr Hyde despite all the changes. The AT is certainly more of an avid drug user than me but its drug is Domination.
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In terms of inherent powers domination is so far above any other inherent it isn't even funny.
If domination scored 100, the next closest inherent would score 10.
You dont see the bigger picture I think or are not thinking outside the box. Domination is not a inherent that makes Dominators rise above all other ATs, it is an inherent that brings them even with all other ATs. No amount of buff or IOs slotting can hide the design defect of Doctor Jekyll/Mr Hyde despite all the changes. The AT is certainly more of an avid drug user than me but its drug is Domination.
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If you are going to use something as evidence of the lack of Dev attention, the Dominator changes weaken your case, not strengthen it.
And you are absolutely correct, the Devs are extremely wary of "overbuffing." They have said so in plain english. The reason they buff in small increments is because it is much easier and much less painful to gently ramp up the power than it is to realize they went too far and rein it back in. This is wisdom, you might do well to learn from it.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
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You know absolutely nothing about dominators. They are pretty solid without domination and are one of the top dogs in the game with it up. If you want to make something easy invite a perma dom.
In terms of inherent powers domination is so far above any other inherent it isn't even funny. If domination scored 100, the next closest inherent would score 10. |
By the way , can a player reach Perma Dom without IOs? I am not interested in building a house on Corrupt foundations. The genetics of the archetype has always been and will always be ...defective. And lets not forget the Purple triangles. Do they still exist ? Lol probably. If so how do you do with them on your target ? Does that new damage help you any ? I doubt it cause the AT is so fragile and helpless without controls.
ENERGY MELEE |
ENERGY AURA |
I've tweaked with the set. I've ran builds, and psuedo-builds in Mids, and pondered and thoughted and thinked and...I just don't know. The set seems decent on paper, but when you actually use it...
I consider it the positional defense equivalent of Electric Armor, one absorbing/reducing damage and the other attempting to avoid it, plus minor absorb/reduce. What did Electric Armor need to bring it up to par? A decent heal +regen built into its endurance reduction power. Is Ele top dog? No, but it's much better now than ever before. As many have pointed out before, EA's sap+heal is all but worthless against a single target.
NO REAL TANKER INHERENT |
FIRE AURA |
The toxic resist is just under 10% unenhanced on brutes. thats hardly awesome, certainly not a value I would aim for with any real desire. I know toxics a bit more common redisde, but 10% aint gonna help all that much, and the set doesnt have anything to add to that, so if I were to play /Energy, I wouldn't feel forced into taking that power for the toxic res.
Fire Armor is going to be looked at possibly maybe, Castle said so.
I think a tanker inherant change to work like new vigilance, which would buff them for solo, and be lost in group play would be acceptable, I do find them agonizingly slow, te only reason I have one up in the 40s is because I was able to run all the TFs with him.
What Jekyll and Hyde? The Dominator changes of a year ago completely eliminated the Jekyll / Hyde duality of Dominators. Domination is Mag increase / Mez protection / Endurance refill only now. The damage buff was completely removed and baked into their powers so that they were always doing Domination level damage (unless you were a double dom permadom).
If you are going to use something as evidence of the lack of Dev attention, the Dominator changes weaken your case, not strengthen it. And you are absolutely correct, the Devs are extremely wary of "overbuffing." They have said so in plain english. The reason they buff in small increments is because it is much easier and much less painful to gently ramp up the power than it is to realize they went too far and rein it back in. This is wisdom, you might do well to learn from it. |
I see your point but the truth is the developers take so long to buff something that apparently they need to take bigger risk when they do because the case is they arent ever really going to get back to the Power Set anytime soon. Maybe they are too busy. Who knows ?
Energy Aura was given the inadequate buff how long ago ? 2008 ? 2007 ? Not sure but all I know it has been a long time and the developers havent got around to it so it may be wiser to take a bigger risk since they are only able get around to the power every 3 years or so.
Fire Aura has been weak for 5 years so you think the devs should be modest in its augmentation and buff it slightly every couple of years until it is balanced ? That is illogical.
Take risk. Overpowering something seems to bring a much quicker fix than inadquately buffing it over time anyway. So whatever happens...it will be ok.
I think EM should remain a single target centric set. Whirling is meant to be a minion buster. If anything, speeding up Total Focus and Energy Transfer's animations (Half?) would make it once more ST King. You're giving up team value (AoE) for the ability to make a huge difference when fighting AVs and bosses.
Insert Typed versus Positional argument and two-hundred posts here. I've tweaked with the set. I've ran builds, and psuedo-builds in Mids, and pondered and thoughted and thinked and...I just don't know. The set seems decent on paper, but when you actually use it... I consider it the positional defense equivalent of Electric Armor, one absorbing/reducing damage and the other attempting to avoid it, plus minor absorb/reduce. What did Electric Armor need to bring it up to par? A decent heal +regen built into its endurance reduction power. Is Ele top dog? No, but it's much better now than ever before. As many have pointed out before, EA's sap+heal is all but worthless against a single target. Maybe give Gauntlet the Vigilance treatment? Since Defenders and Tankers are over-specialized, the two sort of go hand in hand. +Damage that scales down with increasing team size. ...is a mess. This coming from someone who's only Tank is a Fire/Fire. It's good with IOs, but the game isn't balanced around IOs. The things you give up for Fiery Embrace (Long recharge BU), Burn (Ghetto Immobilize Resist, enormous fear effects), Blazing Aura (0.89 more damage than Ele and Dark's damage auras), and a self-rez (Look at all my survival holes, woo!), are staggering. |
Thank you for your constructive post. Other than EM we seem to be in agreement.
I have tried both Fire/Fire on a Scrapper and Tank so I know how truely weak and fragile it is without IOs. I have no idea how strong Fire is with IOs cause as I said, I dont build a house on corrupt foundations.
Yes, they should have a better inherent. But Tankers are not lacking defensively. They are lacking in stackability on teams and they are also lacking the soloability of a Scrapper or Brute because of their lower damage, worse endurance efficiency and late blooming.
I would not vote for any new or changed inherent for Tankers that doesn't increase their damage either directly or indirectly with something like a stacking -Res debuff. It could be similar to the Defender's recent buff in that its strongest when solo and weakens with large teams. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Sure I do. I played one back in 2006-07 to 41 but gave up on it. Despite the damage increase I believe occured in my absense I doubt nothing has changed and I rather an AT that does not rely on its inherent so much the player wants to devote time and energy to reach the great perma inherent.
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Confirmation of this recent damage buff does not attract me to the fragile AT.
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Previously, Domination doubled the magnitude of your mezzes, increased their duration, filled your endurance bar, and increased your damage. Now, the damage no longer comes from Domination, and instead all of the Dominators' attacks (except Psychic Shockwave) have been equivalently buffed. (And while PSW wasn't buffed, the rest of Psi Assault got buffs to disperse how drastically weighted the set was toward PSW.)
So, Dominators do more damage than they did*. Like Containment, Dominators can increase the magnitude of their holds (except Dominators can double their magnitude, instead of just adding 1). Unlike Containment, Dominators can increase the duration of their effect. Unlike Containment, Dominators can instantly refill their endurance bar. Unlike Controllers, Dominators now always have the extra damage available.
Not only are Dominators playable without their inherent, their inherent is far and away better than their closest counterpart.
* With the exception of people who managed to stack Domination before
With Hero ATs their inherent is always on from the start so I will stick with them.
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I take it you don't like Blasters, then? Blasters have fewer means of survival against PToD than Dominators do.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
One of the major negative factors of this game to me is the absurdly long time it takes the developers to Buff things and even when they do manage do buff things often it is not enough. I have focused on 4 major areas that have annoyed me for the longest time. These are issues the developers should have solved in some cases years ago. Other issues exist I am sure so state them if you like.
ENERGY MELEE
Energy Melee currently suffers from dismal AOE performance while no longer having an edge in single target damage since the weakening of Energy Transfer. Other attacks sets can match Energy Melee in single target damage but all have better AOE capabilities. This makes the set without reason to exist as other choices are more logical for overall effectiveness. Despite outcry from the games population, the developers have done nothing to remedy EMs poor condition. The set needs more AOE capabilities , both damage and mitigation. Whirling Hands should be buffed or ET or TF turned into some form of AOE.
ENERGY AURA
The buff to Energy Aura was an insult to my intelligence. Energy Aura needed a Reconstruction like clone or some other unique power to significantly improve its mitigation. What it got was Toxic resistance in one of its passives, a power which was logical to skip, and a weak heal in Energy Drain that requires multiple opponents to become effective , which makes it pathetic against difficult 1 v 1 fights. Again, what good would placing toxic resistance in the auto passive? So now in order to get the toxic resistance players have to invest in a power they previously skipped, thus weakening their build overall. The buff to Energy Aura is undeniable evidence that the Devs are afraid to overpower things through buff so they take inadequate steps to strengthen underperforming sets.
NO REAL TANKER INHERENT
Disregarding Kheldians and Dominators who’s Domination I view as an overall disadvantage, every single AT on this game, now including Defenders , has a inherent that improves personal survivability. But not tanks. Apparently most people think Tanks don’t need one but with the implementation of IOs , I feel they are wrong. Other than concept, why play a Tanker when you can have a soft capped Scrapper ? There is no logical reason. IOs have now made it possible for Scrappers to achieve high levels of survivability to match Tankers but they have not made it possible for Tankers to achieve Damage that can match Scrappers. What Tankers should have is an inherent , other than the Taunt from Gauntlet needed for teams, that improves their durability. One suggestion I have made is for every attack a tanker makes , he has a chance of landing a Accuracy Debuff and a Damage Debuff in a small AOE around his target. It should be both so it can help both defense and resistance characters equally.
FIRE AURA
Fire Aura has been left to rot in inferiority for the last 4 or 5 years. Its condition is so obvious to people with general knowledge of all defensive sets that the situation is unacceptable and shows that the developers are either too afraid of overpowering things through buff, the same as with Energy Aura, or mistakenly think Fire Aura is balanced. Burn has proven to be worthless without an immobile since it scatters mobs and does little damage. Its immobile protection is impractical as well and will just divide a player on when to use it. Imagine having immobile protection in Foot Stoop or Shield Charge. That is how stupid it is.
Consume is a poor endurance recovery power since it tries to do too many things at once. Its recharge is 3 times that of power sink and requires accuracy slotting because it does damage which means it requires a tohitcheck. So the truth is that by doing damage Consume causes players to do less damage overall since they lack an effective endurance recovery power.
Fire Aura still to this day continues to have no knockback protections and impractical immobile protection.
Fire Aura is a set which lies to the player. Conceptually it sacrifices defense for damage, but the only damage buff in FA is Fiery Embrace. Blazing Aura isn’t anything special as other defensive secondarys have damage toggles and Rise of the Phoenix requires a player to die every time to use it. So what we have is a fragile set with little offensive ability to make up for it. Now with the existence of Shields, Fire Aura is obsolete.
The ways to improve Fire Aura are numerous. I immediately support Burn to me made into an effective attack again while Immobile Protection be placed in Plasma Shield. Consumes recharge should be reduced, it should do no damage and be auto-hit. Fiery Embrace also may need looking into, most notably its recharge. Since the game isnt balanced on IOs either, Fire Aura should have Knock Back Protection since Acrobatics now is too weak.
One of the main reasons I do not play this game much anymore is because of the time it takes the developers to fix such issues and at times when they do , the Buff is often too inadequate and insulting to the intelligence. So please focus on the more important issues and don’t be afraid to take risk.