My only Blaster of worth is a Dual Pistols/Fire Manipulation, use Hail of Bullets whenever it's up and giggle with pleasure when I see everything around me flopping down dead.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these. It might have been."
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I thought that position was held by HoB?|
Originally Posted by Seraphael
If you by best mean coolest, then I'd agree. FA is unfortunately the worst of the mini-nukes from a power gamer point of view though.
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Anyhow, on to the Survey:
Do you nuke? Yes
When do you nuke? On teams, whenever it's up. The crash is ridiculously easy to manage and standard AoEs don't remotely compare to a solid nuke. I often will just pop a purple or two Aim+BU and dive right in and BOOM! ... a blue or two later and I'll have the spawn down before the rest of the team gets there. On to the next group. Solo, not as often, Though sometimes I'll pop a few purples and herd up a room to wipe out with it.
Best and worst Nukes? I'm rather partial to Inferno. I'm generally least impressed with Elec's nuke. But that's just pure opinion.
What other powers complement the nuke? Build Up+Aim, any damage boosting power, pretty well any end recovery power, various insps.
Anything else you'ld like to add? Not really.
This is pretty much based on my Elec/Nrg which still needs to be IOd out. She barely has any enhancements slotted at all.
Mini Survey:
Do you nuke?
YES
When do you nuke? (around EBs, near death, etc)
Hi my name is... (((NUKE)))
Early and often.
Best and worst Nukes?
Could not really say although I love thunderous blast.
What other powers complement the nuke?
Build Up, Aim, Power Boost to name a few.
Anything else you'ld like to add?
Nukes are fun.
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Not even close. |
Originally Posted by Seraphael
1. Shield/SS Tankers still outdamage most Blaster AoE combinations or at the very least they come very close.
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Tanker SC does base 133 damage at lvl 50 in its current form. Tanker Footstomp does base 63 damage at lvl 50. Add the buff from Rage and fully saturated AAO and we're up to approximately 325 & 154 damage respectively, before enhancements. Total unenhanced damage about 479.
Compare to an Assault Rifle/EM Blaster. Build-Up + Full-Auto alone comes in at 357, not all that far behind Shield Charge+Footstomp in a single attack. A full AOE chain of Build-Up, Flamethrower, Full-Auto, Buckshot brings it up to 712. That's about 50% more AOE damage output than the Shield/SS tanker. That's not even remotely "very close". And the blaster can continue to cycle through his multiple AOE attacks while the tanker is stuck waiting for Footstomp to recharge.
Let's also not forget target caps. Melee PbAOEs have a cap of 10 targets and Melee cones have a cap of only 5 targets. Ranged AOE's are capped at 16 and ranged cones are capped at 10. That's a heck of a lot more targets being hit.
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| I'm aware BaB has stated Shield Charge would be nerfed but I don't see the devs nerfing Shield Charge that much and risk offending the hordes of Shield using Brutes, Scrappers and Tankers. |
As Castle stated here:
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Shield Charge when released was set for a scale 1.7 damage to all targets within 20' of impact, with 0.7 scale bonus within 3' of impact. When the change to allow AT scaling was made, the bonus damage was rolled into the overall damage, for a scale of 2.4 to all targets in a 20' radius. At the same time, instead of have Brutes getting a mod of 0.75 applied, they were treated as the base. So, instead of: Brutes 3' scale 1.8, 20' scale 1.275 Tankers 3' scale 2.04, 20' 1.445 Scrappers 3' scale 2.7, 20' scale 1.9125 We get: Brute 20' scale 2.4 Tanker 20' scale 2.712 Scrapper 20' scale 3.6 |
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| 2. Isn't Lightning Rod even a greater offender though? That power alone is a mini-nuke that is as good as or better than anything in the Blaster arsenal. |
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As far as 2 goes, no. Lightning Rod does less damage at point of impact than Shield Charge does over its entire radius. LR most of its damage in a 3 ft radius and then reduced damage for the rest of its area of effect. Shield Charge is supposed to have mechanics similar to LR but doesn't. It does all of its (higher) damage over its entire radius.
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Originally Posted by Seraphael
1. Shield/SS Tankers still outdamage most Blaster AoE combinations or at the very least they come very close. I'm aware BaB has stated Shield Charge would be nerfed but I don't see the devs nerfing Shield Charge that much and risk offending the hordes of Shield using Brutes, Scrappers and Tankers.
2. Isn't Lightning Rod even a greater offender though? That power alone is a mini-nuke that is as good as or better than anything in the Blaster arsenal. Why pay the rather heavy face-planting price of a Blaster (the one thing the AT generally did better than most other ATs were AoE damage at the cost of personal defenses and team support) when you can have your pie and it it too with other ATs? |
Do I nuke?
Yes, I love my namesake's (Energy/Energy) nuke.
When do I use it?
TFs mostly, well packed groups I can mow down and be epic.
Do I always take nukes, or tier nines?
Most of the time, although I had an AR/Dev that I had Full Auto and really didn't like being planted. Then I had a Archery and loved Rain of Arrows. Now I have an Ice/Fire, it's pretty epic when in a groove.
How do I rank nukes?
1. Blizzard
2. Rain of Arrows (The only non-end drain one I'll put up.)
3. Nova (Blaster version)
4. Inferno
5. Blackstar/Atomic Blast (Though I haven't used them yet, I can see the vast potential in them.)
Anything else I would like to add?
Uhhh, I love nuking. It helps out in tough situations and just makes me feel all giddy on the inside watching ragdoll bodies flying back from Nova. That, and it's a great way to stay in shape
Do you nuke?
-Hell yeah
When do you nuke?
-If I have a power to refill my endurance and a blue, every time it's up (although I wait to rush in to a fresh mob)
Best and worst Nukes?
-Nova is the coolest looking IMO, Blizzard for pure damage + range
What other powers complement the nuke?
-Aim/Build Up, Tactics, and Assault for max damage + hit chance. Stealth and super speed so you can get right up in the mob's face for PBAoE nukes
Anything else you'ld like to add?
-Nothing is more cool than obliterating a group of enemies with a single big boom.
Any blaster nuke can be profitably combined with Rise of the Phoenix, provided enough bad guys survive the nuke to put you down (or just self-destruct). RotP clears up any survivors during the rez, and the pesky -recovery is gone.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Do I nuke?
Indeed. Especially with Blizzard, Rain of Arrows, and Hail of Bullets.
When do I use it?
Rain of Arrows and Hail of Bullets get used practically every time they are up. Blizzard is reserved for large rooms after i've layed down an Ice Storm for synergy.
Do I always take nukes?
I always grab nukes, although many suffer from either not recharging fast enough to make an impact regularly or from not recharging fast enough for me to remember to use them. Most crashless nukes tend to provide consistent utility.
How do I rank nukes?
1. Crashless nukes first (Rain of Arrows, Full Auto, Hail of Bullets, Psychic Wail for Fortunata)
2. Rise of the Phoenix (It's the nuke people are dying to use! /em rimshot "Tip your waitress. I'll be here all week.")
3. Blizzard (aka Frosted Flakes of Doom)
4. Nova (Crazy damage in a short period of time)
5. Nova/Quasar/Dawn Strike (A true Explosive Finale with knockback to boot)
6. Other Nukes (different secondary effects for flavor for the PBAOEs; Thunderous Blast shares one of my favorite animations...and then does middling damage)
Lagniappe:
PBAOE Nukes and Trip Mines (Toe-Bombing) make for the most fun I've ever had with nuking. The beauty of Dual Pistols combined with Devices/Traps means I can bomb a spawn and fire my sidearms maniacally from the epicenter almost every 30 seconds. It's double the nuke and -none- of the endurance crash. If I weren't a registered hero, it'd have to be illegal.*
*It probably is anyway.
Veridian Dynamics. Mistakes. We all make them. But sometimes mistakes lead to great discoveries. Mistakes are how we learn and grow... so we can do amazing things.
When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.
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I love the burst of 1778 damage that is highly unresisted, it's just b-e-a-uuutiful.
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Originally Posted by Everfree_Fire
Assuming we are ignoring RoA/FA/HoB, no, I don't take them, or plan to take them. To me, the crash really isn't worth it in most cases. I would imagine that a Aim + BU + Inferno would be a thing of beauty, though.
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Selective comparisons under ideal conditions is where you, and others, go wrong in my opinion. It does not translate well into practical game experience. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Not even close.
Tanker SC does base 133 damage at lvl 50 in its current form. Tanker Footstomp does base 63 damage at lvl 50. Add the buff from Rage and fully saturated AAO and we're up to approximately 325 & 154 damage respectively, before enhancements. Total unenhanced damage about 479. Compare to an Assault Rifle/EM Blaster. Build-Up + Full-Auto alone comes in at 357, not all that far behind Shield Charge+Footstomp in a single attack. A full AOE chain of Build-Up, Flamethrower, Full-Auto, Buckshot brings it up to 712. That's about 50% more AOE damage output than the Shield/SS tanker. That's not even remotely "very close". And the blaster can continue to cycle through his multiple AOE attacks while the tanker is stuck waiting for Footstomp to recharge. |
Blasters in general must sacrifice damage to get a tiny fraction of the mitigation all other ATs has. Compare to Ice Blast, Sonic Blast, Psychic Blast, Electrical Blast or Energy Blast, how does your numbers fare then?
Another issue is the ability to make good on damage potential; Tankers are easily able to keep performing optimally in sustained combat and keep dealing damage long after the Blaster has faceplanted or withdrawn from combat.
Shield Defense was introduced with issue 13 late 2008...did it really take the develpers more than two and a half years to discover Shield Charge being grossly overpowered and not working as intended? Pretty astounding if that's the case.
Thanks for the informative reply though. My reaction was triggered by teaming with too many ubermench Shield/Elec Scrappers as of late that have put my alledged DPS monster (Fire/Elec Blaster) completely to shame.
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Heck yes.|
Originally Posted by Gromar
Do you nuke?
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Originally Posted by Gromar
When do you nuke? (around EBs, near death, etc)
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Originally Posted by Gromar
Best and worst Nukes?
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Thunderous Blast seems to lack... thunder, but I love the animation of the power surging into the player's fists.
Worst has to be Blackstar. The animation is so boring and generic, it single-handedly made me lose interest in my DDD.
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Originally Posted by Gromar
What other powers complement the nuke?
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The downside to this strategy is that after Aim-->Build Up-->Inferno, there ain't much left standing for Consume to pull endurance off of.
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Originally Posted by Gromar
Anything else you'ld like to add?
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Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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Honestly, I didn't pick that as a selective comparison. I simply picked AR/EM, since my main is an AR/EM Blaster.|
Originally Posted by Seraphael
Selective comparisons under ideal conditions is where you, and others, go wrong in my opinion. It does not translate well into practical game experience.
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| Compare to Ice Blast, Sonic Blast, Psychic Blast, Electrical Blast or Energy Blast, how does your numbers fare then? |
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| Another issue is the ability to make good on damage potential; Tankers are easily able to keep performing optimally in sustained combat and keep dealing damage long after the Blaster has faceplanted or withdrawn from combat. |
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| Thanks for the informative reply though. My reaction was triggered by teaming with too many ubermench Shield/Elec Scrappers as of late that have put my alledged DPS monster (Fire/Elec Blaster) completely to shame. Shield Defense was introduced with issue 13 late 2008...did it really take the develpers more than two and a half years to discover Shield Charge being grossly overpowered and not working as intended? Pretty astounding if that's the case. |
There's a big boom and everything is dead. What's not to like? 
If you die while using it you're doing it wrong.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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My Sonic/Sonic Defender never took one. Didn't like to drop all my toggles, nor did it fit the concept of the character. I take them otherwise.|
Originally Posted by Gromar
Do you nuke?
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| When do you nuke? (around EBs, near death, etc) |
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| Best and worst Nukes? |
(Granted, that kinda makes it not a nuke)Thunderous Blast and Blizzard are cool because they have range(Blizzard you can drop around a corner!)
Worst? Generally, Defender Nukes lack proper punch(Fulcrum Shift can fix that).
Nova is often loathed for it's KB. EM Pulse because it doesn't deal damage.
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| What other powers complement the nuke? |
Also, Rain of Fire and Freezing Rain. Both will keep your targets in a general area. Freezing Rain debuffs their Resistances!
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| Anything else you'd like to add? |
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Oh well - I enjoy the spectacle of this game far more than I enjoy the number-crunching. Plus, the toon is a Corruptor, so I can score a Scourge on that thing and utterly destroy a dude or fifteen.
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Originally Posted by Seraphael
If you by best mean coolest, then I'd agree. FA is unfortunately the worst of the mini-nukes from a power gamer point of view though.
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~union4lyfe~
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Unless things have changed while I was gone, the to-hit check for Self-Destruction is performed when you press the button, the countdown animation is strictly for show. If the to-hit check was successful the mob could be a running a mile away and get hit.
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
While technically a Nuke, Self Destruction is very unreliable. It almost never takes foes down, and often they move away before the countdown reaches zero. |
My main went without a nuke for a couple years, but eventually respeced back into it. All my other blasters take the nuke. (So far, none of my defenders do; not enough damage to be worth it for me.)
When I nuke depends on the team. If we're steamrolling, I use it whenever it's up and it doesn't look like anyone else is about to. If the mission is difficult, I save it for emergencies. Occasionally I will use it for an EB/AV fight that looks difficult, just to clear out the minions.
Haven't tried them all; Nova and Inferno seem just fine, and the elec one is sort of underwhelming so far.
I feel morally obligated to have Aim and Build Up available before the nuke. I also really like Bonfire (set fire, run in, nuke, run back across fire and maybe around corner, be generally unbothered during crash). I'll actually nuke solo if that power is available.
Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
I nuke, but then I'm Fire/Elec. So not only do I have a really good chance of killing everything, all I need is a small blue to get back to full end.
My main blaster is an Archer, but I will assume RoA / FA / HoB are irrelevant to this discussion. Skipping them, or not using them regularly, would just be silly (marginal case can be made against HoB).
I take my conventional nukes on Blasters and Corruptors to use whenever it is tactically appropriate to do so. When I see two spawns stacked on top of each other, or an unexpected ambush pops up, or the RNG just hates us and a battle is going poorly, nuking works as a reset button. The otherwise ugly horde of baddies is now mostly a pile of bodies, and any stragglers can be dealt with much less hassle.
I take my nuke on Defenders that are not largely dependent on their toggles - my Sonic/Sonic skipped Dreadful Wail despite its awesomeness because he runs 7 toggles all the time and the retoggling would drive me insane. My Kin/Rad nukes every time it recharges, because with Fulcrum Shift and Transference there is absolutely no reason not to. My Emp/Sonic is from Green Machine and runs with other Empaths all the time, so he also nukes every time it recharges because he has enough +recovery with Adrenaline Boost and stacked Recovery Auras to negate the crash.
General tips on nuking - if you are using it as an alpha strike to thin out a really hard group, you can use stealth to get in position without getting attacked first. You can also joust the PBAoE with a bit of skill; by jumping out of the group right as you hit [nuke of choice], you can land several yards away and avoid any melee retaliation. If you are nuking just for the heck of it, against something not immediately lethal but annoying enough to want to kill NOW, then you should preface the nuke by hitting the boss with a couple single target attacks. This will build up some defiance boosts for the nuke itself, and soften up the boss so it will hopefully die to the nuke as well. If you are popping it in response to a battle suddenly going south, getting into firing range should be no concern, other than fighting your instinct to run away and charging head-on to finish the fight.
Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.
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It turns out Scrapper's Shield Charge has a data error. It's dealing too much damage for the archetype, and was indeed missed for a long time.
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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Shield Defense was introduced with issue 13 late 2008...did it really take the develpers more than two and a half years to discover Shield Charge being grossly overpowered and not working as intended? Pretty astounding if that's the case.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Perhaps it's To Hit value is unrealably low then. Way too many enemies escape it's damage.
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Originally Posted by JackONight
Unless things have changed while I was gone, the to-hit check for Self-Destruction is performed when you press the button, the countdown animation is strictly for show. If the to-hit check was successful the mob could be a running a mile away and get hit.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
1: Shield/SS Tankers aren't nuking anything instantly. I've got one. They simply don't have enough damage output.
2: Shield Charge is overpowered and not working as intended per Castle, and is going to be nerfed. So that Elec/Shield Scrapper isn't going to be insta-nuking every spawn either anymore.
2. Isn't Lightning Rod even a greater offender though? That power alone is a mini-nuke that is as good as or better than anything in the Blaster arsenal. Why pay the rather heavy face-planting price of a Blaster (the one thing the AT generally did better than most other ATs were AoE damage at the cost of personal defenses and team support) when you can have your pie and it it too with other ATs?