Seraphael

Your Energy/Energy brings mitigation...for the opposition as much as for your team I bet. I've very seldomly, if ever, experienced teams that rely on erratic KB for mitigation (unless we talk duos or really small teams with poor balance).

The drain option is notoriously unreliable. Which is probably why I haven't seen it done on a team in...a very, very long time. A Stalker, Scrapper or Brute actually kills that boss while you're busy applying holds.

Accuracy is hardly an issue in almost all the content.

Everything, huh? *laughs*

Mm-mmm! Cherries...goood!

Blasters have always been viable vs. lower level enemies. Exemplared down with more slots and much better enhancements than the opposition is designed for, the right Blaster (your combo can be an offensive powerhouse) can be downright impressive. Especially with ample support and aggro management.

Meanwhile in the adult, highlevel-world other ATs can go to town similarly without support or resorting to expensive defensive IO-set builds picking on select enemy-types. No matter the rhetorics; Blasters do not nearly get enough back for being one-trick ponies in relation to other ATs.

CoX is simply a game with very shoddy power balancing, powerset balancing and archtype balancing most of which have been allowed to go on unaddressed since the conception. So this entire thread is most likely a (not so) little Don Quijote charge against windmills.

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/City_of...ntmods#Blaster

The above might be a good start.

Blasters are inherently incapable of cherrypicking since neither primary nor secondary (not even pools or epics) covers damage and sufficient mitigation. The closest thing in my mind is Fire/Ice though, it comes with very good AoE damage, and good ST damage while also having relatively good mitigation (for a Blaster). It will perform pretty well solo and on teams which is a problem for most/all other combinations which will have to pick a specialty so to speak. Like your Energy/Energy which probably soloes relatively well (for a Blaster), but isn't a great teamer (due to poor AoE and erratic KBs). Even so, a Fire/Ice Blaster would be outgunned on teams by AoE-geared meleeists while these also being (significantly) better (but probably more boring unless you really stack the odds against yourself) soloists.

Archery is a bit of an abberation; RoA, Exploding Arrow and Fistful hits, if chained, almost simultaneously defeating some mobs before their retaliation reaches the archer. Combined with a nerfably strong tier 9 (then again, there are many overpowered powers in the game), it is a very solid set both solo and on team (unless fighting robots, CoT spectres and other heavily S/L resistant mobs).

Blasters does indeed need secondaries badly. A mixture of Ice and Mental including at least one AoE control/mitigation power and one AoE damage power would be ideal as far as I'm concerned. Here's hoping it happens sooner rather than later.

Ouch! Such drama for a poor defenseless Scrapper! Your Scrapper is much better off than a Blaster should he also miss and lose endurance. You may still have one or more applications of Divine Avalance running which protects against by far the most Malta attacks, you have significantly more health through Dull Pain which is close to perma slotted and with Hasten even without any global recharge IO-bonuses. You'd have more resistance, more recovery and more regeneration. You will be immune to the 45? sec AoE stun-grenades a Blaster has no defense against and the other stun attacks. You could pop a single blue inspiration, hit MoG and laugh at the Malta. If worst came to worst, you'd still have access to Revive self-rez and basically be good as new. Attempting to portray any Scrapper worse off than a Blaster is laughable.


Being able to use tier one and two while mezzed can be a godsend, but it generally won't save you if you fight anything worthwhile fighting at higher levels and you find yourself without break frees.


Melee ATs that depend extensively on defense for mitigation generally have such resistances. Other ATs generally have access to sufficient control and/or buffs/debuffs making the lack of such resistance less of a concern.


And Repulsing Torrent, another 10 attacks or so if we include Scrapper epics. A Spines/Fire/Dark Scrapper has access to more ST and AoE attacks (ranged or melee) than he'll know what to do with...and be infinitely more survivable than a Blaster.


4 of those are actually Location AoEs. Siren's Song is mainly a sleep with very poor DPS (only around 33% higher than Fire Cages for Controllers). The old nukes are also very poor DPS and when you consider they also cause a crash, they are extremely poor DPS (but of course DPS is not everything - but it will determine partly how well or fast you can solo). That a ranged/melee AT has more ranged attacks than a melee AT should hardly surprise anyone. What's your point?


Wrong. Nothing in the Blaster arsenal compares well, much less equal Throw Spines. Breath of Fire is solid but falls short despite having nothing put damage where as Throw Spines benefit from secondary effects. Buckshot actually comes closer in matching the DPS, but is also inferior - especially considering the AoE is also significantly smaller and the set lacks Aim.

Using long and narrow cones to maximum effect require tactics and constant positioning. It also involves risk of additional melee attacks as a Blaster will for all intents and purposes be in melee range. Despite the above, hitting 10 targets cannot be expected.

I've got much better builds collecting dust.

You're very misleading when you mention that "most of the IOs there, are pretty darn cheap", neglecting to include the fact that your (and most such) build(s) bases most of it's strength on the nerf-bait and expensive Kinetic Combat set. Such sets costs around 250 million each on the largest EU-server, and you had 3 of them which would set you back 750 million...on 12 slots alone. Pretty darn cheap, eh?

I know very well that mezzes won't affect IO-set bonuses, but it would affect your (half of the time power boosted) Frozen Armor...that's a reduction of almost 25% S/L-defense (or 16% w/o PB) every time you're mezzed. S/L defense is potent, but since Blasters get no resistance to -defense powers and these are very common to mobs using S/L attacks...cascading defense failures are bound to happen fairly often in your build. Not to mention being useless against the large number of mobs using any other type of attack. Also, when levelling down on task forces and trials and such (which is a large part of at least my level 50 game), you can generally forget about any such defenses.

As for your regeneration Scrapper/Brute complaint/woes; it's a little like picking a Fire/Fire Blaster and complaining about being squishy. Regeneration's one weakness is the inability to handle damage spikes well. Picking Broad Sword or Katana and combining it with Weave and Combat Jump would when slotted provide more than 30% defense to lethal and melee (and a bit less than 10% on everything else) achievable at level 20 on top of a phenomenal regeneration rate, several self heals, and a short but relatively quickly recharging tier 9 god-mode. If you struggle as you suggest, you're definitely not doing it right...even if you spent all of your budget on Kinetic Combat sets for your Blaster to make him viable.

Larger AoEs are of course advantageous over smaller ones, but not in the rather linear way you attempt to portray. Melee characters can gather the mobs close very easily and with little risk, solo or in teams by virtue of being the first to initiate combat. Melee AoEs are significantly more damaging than normal ranged AoEs. A power like Ripper would compare favourably to Explosive Blast (both available at level 26) despite being melee range AoE vs. ranged and being capped at 5 vs. 16 targets. Cones, which contribute a significant part of the Blaster AoE damage, are capped at 10 and often require constant repositioning.

Scrappers also have access to some large area AoEs any Blaster would kill for: Throw Spines (generally bigger, faster recharging and much more damaging than almost any and all Blaster cones), Shockwave, Lightning Rod, Spine Burst, Shield Charge, the Scrapper version of Fire Sword Circle (20% more damage than the Blaster equivalent).

As for Blazing Aura, Burn, Fire shield, Rise of the Phoenix being available to Blasters; the two latter are epic powers available at level 44 and 47 (thus a Fire/Fire cannot get it as you say, but a Fire/Fire/Fire may). The two former perform much, much better for Scrappers and other melee toons than they do for Blasters. Small pbAoEs with slow acting DoTs require a durability Blasters don't generally have and certainly not before endgame levels through expensive (!) and specific IO-builds. Pure damage auras are a cheap way to increase damage for all Scrappers, and a fast way to die for your average Blaster (unless on a team with very good aggro-management and control).

MoG doesn't crash, Power Surge crashes but has Power Sink, Unstoppable crashes but doesn't cause the long recovery debuff. Elude in Super Reflexes is the only semi-problematic one were it not for the simple fact SR-Scrappers/Brutes/Stalkers don't generally need it as they can softcap easily without it. Even a non-IO build with Weave and CJ can achieve around 40% to all positional defenses. Energy Armor for Brutes only is the only one that really compares, but that's only one or two out of...11, while 8 out of 11 blast set nukes crash. Let alone the fact nukes recharge 3 times faster than the few T9-god mode armour powers with true crash issues (thus needing to pop blues that more often). Also, when your average Scrapper or Brute really needs the god-mode, he or she is likely taking on enemies the average Blaster wouldn't even begin to contemplate engaging or the power is used as a panic-button. You're reaching a lot here.

That you mention Fire/Fire Blasters and in the same sentence mention it having an easier time dealing with tough mobs is just ridiculous and has put what little credibility you've had left straight out the window. Sorry, but not good enough.

*Sigh*

Get with the program already. Let me prove just how wrong you are. I've stated previously that Blasters benefit considerably from specific, but rather expensive IO-builds. That's a testimony not to the viabiliy of Blasters, but to the overpoweredness of IO-sets. Blaster performance for a select few at max level isn't the issue. It's about the base abilities while levelling up (where such builds aren't even practically feasible) and beyond for your average Blaster.

As for your build, a simple mez would cut your S/L defense in half. Such a pimped out Electricity/Energy Blaster would still have less survivability than a standard Scrapper enhanced with SOs only. Its AoE and ST damage would still not compare well in practical gameplay to ie. a Fire/Fire/Any Scrapper, or a Spines/Dark/Any, or a Electricity/Shield/Any or Fire/Fire/Fire Dominator or...you might get the point.

As for the constant "just pop [insert select inspiration here]"-arguments - it's getting old fast. "Just" pop a purple or two, "just" pop a break free, "just" pop some blues to recover from the endurance crash of your nuke, "just" pop some greens to recover some damage. How large tray do you guys have and how much more damage do you think ie. Scrappers or Brutes do compared to Blasters since the former two ATs have little need of inspirations for such purposes and are free to use them enhancing their damage output (just popping multiple reds)? None of you take this simple fact into consideration which makes me frankly question either your reasoning skills or your integrity...or both.


PS. Oh...it just dawned on me; not only Dominators have better snipes than Blasters, but Scrappers have sniper powers in their epics that are actually worthwhile (for Blasters at least, Scrappers probably have better options). Such snipes have been requested by Blasters for years...further proof of the neglect I've mentioned in the past posts.

You know what? You're way off base and way out of line. Way to allocate the opposition with constructed imaginary motivations in a rather sad attempt to stigmatise their stance.

Developers generally like to make new content rather than to fix old. New content is an easier sell after all. Developers also doesn't like to fix what isn't strictly broken. Additionally, developers are prone to influence through popular demand and Blasters have had very few proponents (as this and other threads make abundantly clear), where as other ATs have had an active lobby. There's also a, in my opinion, misguided consensus that i12 fixed the Blaster issues. These are the main reasons why I think Blaster issues take the backseat almost at every juncture.

Another thing you don't seem to appreciate is the fact that other ATs are much more free to cherrypick powerset combinations than do Blasters. A Blaster will always sacrifice a lot of damage to get a fraction of the mitigation any other AT takes for granted. Melee toons have more than sufficient survivability in all their armour sets making such considerations unnecessary. A Controller or Dominator can pick the most damaging sets and still have more than sufficient control to handle huge spawns single-handedly. Knowing one can get the best of both (or even several) worlds with other ATs is why numerous threads pop up clamouring for ever more offensive armour sets for instance. These comparisons can never be straight up, but seems biased only to the non-analytic mind.

It took pages of discussion...and you still didn't get it (not surprising, willful blindness over the issue is pretty prevalent). Let me clue you in; it's certainly not about how the Blaster solo at level 50 with a full IO-set complement. It is, however, about how other ATs can infringe on the only thing Blasters get - damage in all shapes -, sometimes surpassing us, while these ATs benefit from significantly better survivability, control or utility.

Certain developments have made the issue more pressing; how spawns are more spread out in initial encounters making ranged AoEs without sufficient AoE control less effective, then Going Rogue bringing Corruptors and Dominators to the mix.


Agreed. Safer ATs do not appeal all that much to me. That said, where have you seen anyone requesting a change in playstyle? Blaster TLC and playstyle changes are pretty freakin' far from mutually exclusive issues y'know.

This could be achieved in any number of ways. Metagame changes like making offensive/hostile toggle powers resume automatically after being shutdown would make such toggles constantly dropping due to mezzing and nuking less of a hassle.

Front-loading damage on immobilizes is another small change that would make single target immobilizes more viable as a multipurpose tool.

Softening the crash of the old school nukes would also be good.

Increasing the radius of the smaller toggle auras is another good change. These are much less useful for Blasters than melee toons. Defenders benefit from such with their Opressive Gloom version for instance. Why not Blasters who need such even more?

Dominators benefit from better snipes than the ranged specialist AT does. Does this even begin to compute other than as an attempt to make snipes viable for Dominators. Why hasn't Blasters gotten the same consideration? And it's not purely about snipes, it's about powers like Power Push, Telekinetic Thrust and others.

Adding damage or secondary effects to single target controls would make these more viable. Only the extreme squishiness of the AT makes these decent choices. Compare our single target control powers with such powers belonging to any other AT. Just about all ATs (Corruptors and Defenders share these powers, but usually have far better options) have so far better choices they're not even in the same league. This despite manipulation at the very least being partly about control.

Other ATs, like Corruptors and Defenders benefit from Blaster damage scalars on certain blast powers. Yet, the Blaster version of Frozen Aura was neglected when the Tanker version got buffed and made useful. For me this is an example of the neglect developers have shown Blasters.


Straw man argumentation. Of course every AT brings something to a team. But who would bring more damage (both single target and AoE) to a team; a Fire/Fire/Fire Dominator or an Ice/Ice/Cold Blaster? Who has the better control (and therefore survivability)? Who has the better utility? That sort of problem is something any Blaster is confronted with.

Why the constant need to dumb down the discussion? This isn't purely about any one aspect of the AT. It's about over all performance. Besides, if you're able to solo the world you're also more than likely to put any of you teammates to shame unless they also are world beaters. Capiche?

Strawman arguments won't get you very far. After the developers boosted the AT, I have never said so and I don't think anyone here truly feels that is the case. Still anyone with any experience and integrity acknowledge the games is riddled with imbalance issues. I'm trying to make a case for some specific changes to address the issue with Blasters which would also make the AT more fun.


Ok first, what part of Blasters having to to keep not only break frees, but also purple defense and green heal inspirations on hand would translate into Scrappers being able to use their inspiration tray for purely offensive purposes was not understood yet? Abstract thinking too hard?

I'm not about to go into the anal-retentive mudslinging contest you've initiated when I can address adults.

Then your experience differ from mine. The PuG groups I join play at all levels from default straight up towards the hardest levels. Even mainly playing an AT that is often the first to pay the price for foolhardiness, I much prefer teams to set the difficulty to a point where the opposition truly challenges without becoming overpowering.


Yes and no. There's an extremely wide performance gap, but if balance is to be based purely on default difficulty, then Blasters would be overpowered to be honest.


It's hard to disagree with that.

These days I hardly see any Invulnerability (for Scrappers these have always been rare), Super Reflexes, Regeneration, Ice Armor, Stone Armor and even Willpower seems to be less played. The offensive defensive sets have gained a lot of popularity because everyone have seen the amount of damage they can dish out without really sacrificing survivability.

The advent of Shield Defense has further widened the gap. With Against All Odds, melee classes have gained a very powerful second damage boost power which is virtually permanent. They have gained a quick recharging mini-nuke in Shield Charge. Combined with Electric Melee (a very common combination for a reason), they can mini-nuke every spawn. A Spines Scrapper has always had better AoE capability than just about any Blaster combination with survivability far beyond. All ATs are capable of infringing on Blaster territory, the Blaster infringes on no one.


Fair enough, but such missions become somewhat repetetive mini-farms without the climactic opposition only bosses truly are able provide a skilled player.


A Scrapper can also act as an alpha-absorber and tank the hard targets. In nominal gameplay that is virutally the job of a supreme damage dealer as well as a tank.

In comparing Defenders with Scrappers, we are comparing apples with oranges. Blasters must be compared on the basis of role/function. These days, every AT is capable of dealing a respectable amount of damage though - but for me, any AT/combination that outdamage Blasters - any type of Blaster - is comparatively overpowered since damage is almost the only thing Blasters get.


Broad strokes, solo I tend to roll fast and furious. The living of the edge suspense only Blasters can provide has made me hooked. On teams, I'm often holding back waiting for alpha to be absorbed and aggro established.


Come now. You've argued raising difficulty without including bosses solo. If so, then either Aim or Build-Up, preferably both, is needed (to solo with any sort of speed).


I have. But such a creature sacrifice AoE damage for the privilege of 3 holds (not 4). The survivability the holds offer is still far less than any Scrapper. Besides beating on pillars isn't fun, if I wanted to do that - I'd "cheat" and roll a Fire/Kinetic Controller like everyone and their grandmother. Or a Dominator.


Agreed. Which is why I wanted the attention of the developers. Only they possess the data, but they're not really forthcoming with info that probably will force their hand any more.

Nice for you. Ice/Ice is ineed safe, but sacrifice AoE capability. On team, you'd be outdamaged and outclassed and by very common combinations of the solo-specialist class Scrapper. A Fire/Fire/Fire Dominator would have much better control, better single target damage, better AoE damage, better survivability (through controls), better endurance management, and better team utility. That's no reason to stop playing something you obviously take pride in however.

Well, that shouldn't come as a suprise. Devices is pretty much made for soloing. In return for that privilege, Devices sacrifice damage and speed. In my view, such a Blaster is still a subpar soloist compared to many/most other ATs (in terms of safety, speed and what he can actually handle) as well as a subpar teamer (due to the damage lagging without BU and/or Aim). That doesn't stop AR/Dev from having it's own gimped charm of course.


This seems very much like the typical simplistic go-to argument for you guys; "I don't have any issues with how I play, therefore anyone with issues must be doing something wrong". I've teamed with loads of Blasters throughout and have extremely seldomly been outdone by any of them. For a semi-casual player (I'm more on/off), I'm pretty hot stuff. Adjusting the difficulty to the challenge at hand is something I learned years ago.


I'm not upset. I'm more fed up, which is pretty natural side-effect from having played a game that really hasn't changed significantly content-wise over the years. Nor am I a numbers-man, the metrics would be much too complex (generally unlike the few simplex numbers provided in rather feeble attempts to lend support to arguments in this thread) and only developers have access to data-mining which reveal the true state of affairs.

The specific statement I offered was a response to an attempt at limiting AT-balance towards default difficulty (+0/+1, no bosses). And that was a subjective comment after having refuted such a narrow scope. You do read me as the devil reads the bible, don't you?

So you say. To the contrary overall AT performance should revolve around what an AT is able to achieve at any difficulty level. No one should have much difficulty with the default level with no bosses. Doing such missions all the way to 50 sounds like an inanely boring and lengthy process indeed.


Sorry, this just doesn't hold water with me. The developers promoted the game early on for being solo friendly and casual friendly. It was one of the main reasons I applied for and gained access to the US Beta way back when. The developers blessed Controllers with the bestest inherent by freaking far to help them with their soloing difficulties. Later they changed the Blaster inherent to help us solo, and finally changed the Defender inherent to help them solo at a better pace.

Even though Blasters are generally the first to faceplant on teams, I prefer the unpredictability that sometimes comes with multiple unknown factors. However, finding a proper team isn't all that easy on the EU servers at least and often I'm forced to solo hours on end. I'm sure most players have similar experience, so being evaluated purely on team performance when teams are available less than half of the time seems unjust.

That being said, do you honestly still think solo play has or should have little bearing on balance?

I see this argument too often to continue to let it remain unopposed. First off, not all Blasters have access to Aim and Build Up or indeed either of the two. Secondly, it's not feasible to wait for BU/Aim to recharge every spawn. In practical gameplay, the realistic option is to alternate the powers each new spawn (if you have access). Furthermore, let me remind you that Ring of Fire is a slow DoT.

The tier one in the secondary rarely make the line up, due to the very slow nature of the DoT. Apart from that you state the obvious, I've never said anything different. In teams, Blasters quite often spend a significant time being mezzed though (esp. vs. Malta and the infernally overpowered Stun Grenades) and a mezzed Blaster is hard pressed to outdamage anyone.

Yep. Always save a couple break frees. And as many purples as you can get, and a few greens. In the meanwhile, a Scrapper can use reds to run around with a significant permanent damage boost. The Blaster is virtually the only AT that actually needs inspirations. Fair? I don't think so.

Inane rhetorics, sorry. Way to demonize the opposition! If anything, you should be considered anti-Blaster as you want to keep it underperforming where as others want the AT buffed (a little TLC here and there goes a long way). In really though, most/all posters here are probably pro-Blasters.

Blasters aren't broken, other ATs are overpowered.

As outlined above; Blaster powers both could and should be buffed without losing the glass-cannon approach, much less making the AT overpowered.

I'd be very keen to see some metrics on how the AT performs these days. Any chance of the powers that be/developers follow the Blaster forum and take time to respond?

Don't know about the US, but in Europe, even on the busiest server finding teams in natural level range is quite often very time consuming. Solo, Team and PvP efficacy should always matter in a balance equation.

Why so little imagination? I've got several hundred levels of experience with Blasters for a reason. I love the AT, despite its obvious shortcomings and wouldn't want the feel of the AT to be changed. There are a lot of things that can be done for Blasters without ruining that living on the edge feeling.

I'd rebalance powers since a lot of powers are duds while others are superior choices thus promoting cookie-cutter builds.

General: Single target stuns/mez without other notable benefits should be improved to ie. include ToHit debuff, last longer or cause significantly higher damage. Snipes need be significantly more damaging and recharge slower (Dominators even get better snipes than Blasters). Full crash nukes - softening the crash to kheldian levels or removing the recovery debuff completely (but keeping the complete endurance drain) would be good. Front-load damage on immobilizes and up damage slightly on Energy/Telekinetic Thrust.

Specific: Frozen Aura should be buffed similar to the Tanker version. Power Push should be buffed similar to the Dominator version. Cloaking Device should provide stealth strike critical first attack out of stealth. Smoke Grenade could do with a chance for a mag 2/3 placate. Time Bomb could be changed to something similar to a weaker Omega Maneuver. Boost Range/Power Boost could get double duration and double recharge to lessen need for constant recast. Conserve Power should recharge quicker, but provide less of an endurance discount. Blaster versions of Blazing Aura, Chilling Embrace and World of Confusion pbAoE toggles could do with radius increase. Full Auto is the only nuke with 10 target cap, up to 16 and provide a slight -ToHit debuff as the hail of bullets would naturally be a suppressant. Slug both roots and corpse kills (I routinely see Scrappers run across large rooms and kill my intended target before my damage is applied) - make damage come sooner. Shout is too slow and is part of what makes Sonic Blast feel much too slow for Blasters - decrease cast time.

Other: Offensive auras should resume automatically after being mezzed. Give other ATs get their own pseudo pet powers. Rain of Fire, Ice Storm, and Blizzard for Corruptors and Defenders use Blaster values while they clearly shouldn't. Less annoying sound effects for Sonic Blast.

None of these changes would alter the feel of Blasters, but it would make make more powers and power sets attractive and the AT in general more fun and slightly more forgiving.

That assumes Blasters will have to play at a much lower difficulty level than basically any other AT. Which melee AT with selfrespect only solo +0/+0?

Defiance is indeed a very handy and much needed inherent. However, mezzed Blasters only have access to tier one and two blasts and likely an unslotted tier one manipulation. The rest of the ordnance is unavailable, quite often still meaning certain death as you're unable to move nor dish out the damage required to save your hide. Any offensive auras are constantly shut off and will have to be restarted manually.

Blasters generally have a great need of break frees, defensive purples and green healing inspirations. The Blaster is therefore hard pressed having what you need any given moment.

Besides, if you use that argument you might as well assume Scrappers and others ATs that have comparable damage, can use ALL their inspirations toward making red damage inspirations (as they already have inate defenses, mez-protection and heals), thus allowing their damage output to surge ahead of Blasters while still being much more survivable than a Blaster with all the needed inspirations at all times.

First off, I believe the developers have stated the game isn't supposed to be balanced around the use of IOs. Secondly, after the Zephyr nerf I don't think Blasters can softcap ranged anymore and certainly not without gimping the build in more than one way. If a Blaster still decides to make a ranged defensive build, such a Blaster would still vulnerable to melee (and AoEs) if you plan to use the greater part of your secondary (on average Blaster secondaries have 5 purely melee range powers) or when mezzed or when it's not otherwise feasible to maneuver/kite.

Smashing/Lethal is the best bet to softcap anything due to access to defensive shield(s) in the epics. Doing so requires quite a few expensive IOs; likely several sets of Kinetic Combat and Obliteration to begin with. Such a Blaster is pretty sturdy, but still suffer from notable ****** in the armour obviously.