Discussion: New Gamestop/Razer Going Rogue Promotion

Uh, they never said they WOULDN'T. They said there were no plans to, at the time. And there weren't. There is a very big difference. One means they went back on their word (tantamount to lying). The other means they changed their minds. They have also said there are no current plans to offer a second preorder bonus through another store. But that doesn't mean "definitely will not make plans", it means "there are no plans RIGHT NOW".

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

This.

They never lied. They never said they wouldn't do something else, but as stated just that they didn't have plans to do anything else at the time. Plans can change.

I would of waited to see what bonues there are too.

I hope that the codes stack, or are those who prepurchased SoL.

We pre-ordered directly from them, not some 2nd or 3rd party. We should be rewarded the most and not miss out on anything. That is the general feel of a lot of people here.

People don't want to be left out in such a social game ether. Because of this we all feel compelled to go out and pre-order the game again! Spending another $40. That is a lot of money for something we mostly already have.

Pre-Ordering directly from them shouldn't make us have buyer's remorse. We feel cheated because not once the game comes out we don't seem to be getting anything special for it from that point.

I must have missed the bit where these 5 minor enhancements exclude anyone without them from joining a team or using any chat channels.

You've had several months of special already

So you agree the information given at the time was incorrect/incomplete.


Thanks for making light of it /sacrasm

Was all the information clearly available, and unchanged to now?
Its hard to call it open information about the buying process when thats not true.

What is so hard to understand about not having all the information equals not being able to make an informaed deiscon? Hearing that there are no plans to include anything else, kinda made me think, that there were no plans to add anything else.

Yes, paragon marketing is now saying that it was changed. And as I understand from teh thread about the first lot of confusion about what you get from what you buy, complete edition doesnt stack on to the prepurchase.

And you need to understand that people saying we would of spent our money differently if we had complete facts, is not the same as calling NCsoft evil. That saying NCsoft made a mistake is not the same as saying NCsoft is evil.

Buyers remose is not the same as feeling tricked into buying the wrong product. I'm sure you would rather put your fingers in your ears and chant 'they are calling NC evil' than listen to someone's view though.

Moral most certaintly does not equal word hedging.

You really dont understand the difference?

I'll repeat that I said they aint highly unethical but its hardly straight forward and honest.

The sensible business desicon was to go with changing from no other preorder perks, to whatthey have done, in responce to when they recieved this offer.

Some snippage in there earlier, but the context remains.

While the idea of "we bought with incomplete information" could be viewed as valid it simply doesn't stand up the way you're arguing it. At the time of your purchase you did have complete information and the Dev's were careful to say they had no plans for a preorder. You acted on that information. However, a month later NEW information has been added, information that didn't exist at the time of the original deal. Again, this is not the Devs fault, new information is just that, new. they had no idea anything of the sort would happen and THEY acted on the information they had. Those being the case, you cannot fault them, or make demands on them based on a "lack of information" at purchase since you had all the information that existed at the time. The information they gave was neither incomplete nor incorrect, it was complete and accurate at the time.

An analogy. I sell you a used sketchbook. Half the pages are taken up by someone else's scribblings and no one has hear dof the artist. A month later, the artist in question becomes the hottest thing around and promptly is run over by a bus. His works are now worth a fortune, and his early works, which are in the sketchbook, are worth their weight in antimatter. I sold to you and we both acted on full and complete information at the time. Neither of us could have known the artist would become famous and die driving up the price of his work. I have no right to and you are under no obligation to give me a cut of the earnings from the sketchbook. I sold and you bought with factual and complete information at the time, but new information has changed the nature of the deal well after the fact.

If you feel "tricked" that is not NCSoft's problem. They did not make a mistake, if anything they cut a good deal for promotional time and space. They acted in good faith and so did you. That an influx of new information, unknown and unknowable at the time, has changed your perception of the deal is unfortunate, but it does not constitute any form of "trickery" on their part.

I don't see how you were "tricked". They gave the incentive of access to two powersets easly if you prepurchased. If you didn't want early access to those two powersets, there was no reason to prepurchase. I haven't bought any version of Going Rogue yet, and I see no reason to hurry.

Well, so far, the CoH pre-order items and the CoV pre-order items have been added to the game as vet rewards - so I think the chances of the GR pre-order items going the same way are really pretty high.

Through no fault of theirs - when they made the pre-purchase offer, they didn't know that a retailer was going to come to them later on and ask for some exclusive items to go with their promotion of the game.

You're welcome - even amongst the hopelessness, the desolation and the despair of a soul-destroying tragedy like this pre-order offer, I'd like to think that there's still a place for a little humor to lighten the terrible darkness.

Basically like the beginner's luck I figure. Good for low levels, but slowly tapers off and becomes more or less pointless at 20. It's not about giving people advantages (I doubt many people are angry that level 50s don't get beginner's luck), it's about helping out low levels. By 20 there are far better things, and your performance pre-20 isn't anything that can really be unbalanced by such an object.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

I'm positive i'd read Posi or someone say there was NO perpurches perks at brick and morter stores. (gamestop). That was, in part, the reason for picking it up online. And what perks came with the complete addition were going to be sold seperetly online later.

I KNOW i read. This, contruducts that. Bait and Switch? No, not quite... but it's close IMO. If i'd have known about THIS, i'd have reconsidered my actions eairler. DP was a nice perk, but i could have waited, and would have rather to get these perks... But i didnt KNOW. Until now. After the fact. And... how many people you think will go ahead and get both? Feels kind of slimy to me. Like something Crypitc would do.

You keep trying to bring morality into a business decision that has nothing to do with ethics or morality.

At the time that they said "there are no plans for preorder bonuses", there were no plans for preorder bonuses. How does morality come into this statement?

Later on down the line, they get an offer they would be stupid to refuse from Gamestop for preorder bonuses. This does not invalidate their previous statement that, at the time of prepurchase release, there were no plans for preorder bonuses. There is no morality in this decision. It's pure business.

YOU are the one trying to assign some kind of moral ambiguity to their decision, when morals have nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

You dont understand how I or others could feel tricked?

I would of brought a different product if I wasnt mislead into thinking I had all the information. That leads to a feeling of having been mislead/tricked.

It really amazes me how this can escape you.

As already said, I understand thier business desicon.

I know next time I will have to examine every possible word as per a legal document.

No developer said that. It was an OCR member that said something similar. (I think Niviene? I am too lazy to go looking in the announcements forum.) They said there were NO PLANS for preorder bonuses. They NEVER EVER said there would NEVER EVER be preorder bonuses. Why do people insist on misrepresenting what the rednames said?

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Just out of curiosity, I checked Posi's postings from the last year. There is no such post in the archives from the last year. in fact he has only 29 posts total in the last year. He has only 9 posts on anything even close to Going Rogue including con appearances. For comparison he has 11 Posts on I16 (mostly on Super-Sidekicking).

So if it was said, it was either not said by Posi or not said on the boards.

Edit: The closest thing to your remembered statement I can find is from Avatea:

"Only the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will be available for prepurchase. The Complete Collection will not be available for prepurchase, nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail."

However, this statement is from February 18th and is still factually correct as of that date. There were no incentives for preordering at retail. The statement does not say "there will not be any incentives" just that there ARE none.

This is from a Red name on this very board. Averta... or something. A spokesmen for Ncsoft.



{ There have been a lot of questions about the City of Heroes® Going Rogue prepurchase program, the Complete Collection and the Item Pack. We’d like to take a moment and try to clarify this for all of you.

There are two different ways to get the City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion: as a separate expansion, or as part of the Complete Collection.

The separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion costs $29.99 (€19.99 / £17.99) and requires you to already have City of Heroes. The separate expansion doesn’t include game time, so you must be an active subscriber to play. The separate expansion does not include the Complete Collection Item Pack. The separate expansion will only be available digitally, and will be available for prepurchase starting in March (see below for more information on what you get from prepurchasing this separate expansion).

The City of Heroes Going Rogue: Complete Collection costs $39.99 (€29.99 / £26.99) and includes City of Heroes Going Rogue as well as City of Heroes, City of Villains, 30 days of game time, and the Complete Collection Item Pack. With the game time and previous expansions included, it is ideal for those who are new to City of Heroes franchise (perhaps as a gift!), but also a good value for players not interested in prepurchasing. The Complete Collection will be available both digitally and at retail (in North America) starting in July and cannot be prepurchased (only the separate expansion can be prepurchased).

Starting at launch in July, players who prepurchased or bought just the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will be able to upgrade to the Complete Collection. The upgrade will include the Complete Collection Item Pack, but it won’t include any game time.

Prepurchase

Only the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will be available for prepurchase. The Complete Collection will not be available for prepurchase, nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail.

Prepurchasing the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will give you early access to the Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning power sets. Dual Pistols will be available immediately once the prepurchase program starts in early March. Demon Summoning will become available starting in April. You will get both power sets early if you prepurchase.

Complete Collection Item Pack

For those who prepurchase the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion, but also want the Complete Collection Item Pack, starting on launch day in July, we will offer an upgrade to the Complete Collection. The upgrade will include the Complete Collection Item Pack but will not include any game time. The pricing for the upgrade hasn’t been set yet.}

This is the part that pisses me off

Only the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will be available for prepurchase. The Complete Collection will not be available for prepurchase, nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail.


I take that for what it says. From a red name. I see nothing that says "currently" or "offeres maychange with time." or some such nonsence.

Link below

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=210329

NO.

You jumped into another post of mine quoting arcanaville stating that as a highly ethical person she didnt have a problem with it as a decision. Please post a reply to her post that she shouldn't try and bring morality into it. Bet you dont.

If you are going to jump into posts directed to other people, then get it right and stick to the same goal posts.

Sheeeessssh!

Time & time i have said i understand it as a business desicon. But you obviously having more fun to be right or whatever your motivation is for cherry picking debates.

It's okay for me to say that I dont like a decision made by NCsoft.
It's not an abberation for me to feel tricked as I didnt have complete information at time of purchase.

No, i have said numerous dang times it was a business desicon, and a mostly likely correct busniess one at that. Your poor ability to follow posts that you quote aside, I agree with you there is no morality in this decision.

So even though I have restated that a) it was a business desicon, b) they didnt intentionally lie, I'm sure you will ignore it all again and post about how they were offered the deal by gamestop after making that statement.

Well the marketing info says: "Security Level 20 Dual Origin Enhancement" which is all sorts of wrong.

TheOcho said 16%, but he was rounding to whole numbers... in the wrong way.

The value of the GROs is 16.66 / 16.66 %. Exactly equal to 2 DOs or 1 SO.

You can trust me on this. I can't say why, but you can.

Why do people insist on adding to what red names say.... "Only the separate City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion will be available for prepurchase. The Complete Collection will not be available for prepurchase, nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail "

So thats why I feel tricked!

Still the correct busniess desicon, but maybe you can acknowldge you got it wrong about it being a "at this time' plan thing.

You beat me to it before I could edit that into my above post. It specifically says: "nor are there any incentives for preordering it at retail." It does NOT say "nor will there be any incentives for preordering it at retail." (emphasis mine on both)

The first is a statement about the situation at that time (February of this year), the second is a statement about every point AFTER that time (from then until release). That is a massive difference.