Couple of PVP Changes with i17

I love how most of your post is wrong and biased.



And BTW I run a multimillion dollar casino and I can tell you point blank once our mind is made up it doesn't mean dick how you come at us. Period. What we want is what matters, whether you like, understand it, or not.

Wait, you mean they wanted to drive away paying customers and lose money? Interesting idea. You guys do that at your software company?

All the "hardcore" PvP'ers wanted was better PvP in general. Not just for arena 8v8's, but for everywhere. Instead, we got the trash that is I13. Nobody with any understanding of the game can say it's better than before.

There are far less viable powersets, all the rules make far less sense (and in many cases, there is no sense whatsoever), and most of all, there are far less people PvP'ing than before. By a HUGE margin. Big enough to completely kill ALL PvP on ALL servers except Freedom.

So they spent like half a year of programming work.....to lose money, and gain nothing. Getting paid to fail must be nice.

Editing cuz I forgot to mention the main part. This whole conversation is pointless, because they won't get offended from what we say anyway. To get offended, you must actually read what's being said on the PvP forums.

I know myself as a player who pvps 95% of the time (not saying im "hardcore"), but I can't run any TF's in 25 min :-( when im on a TF team. heck, i could barely kill an even lvl EB. PvE PuGs give me so much **** for sucking so bad, i get kicked off TF teams, regular teams, and then in BC they would ask for the same AT i was. Anyway i just wanna add that some players who PvP a lot sux at PvE.

When the problem is already considered solved by those who have the power to actually solve the problem, it doesn't really matter.

There's no point in having people who listen if they don't take player input into account. The PvPers had several well-reasoned threads with potential fixes for the old PvP system, but rather than listen to those who actually had experience with the system, they decided to make a bunch of unasked-for changes and basically said "these are non-negotiable."

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

By playerbase I meant PVP playerbase, and yes it was a huge chunk of the PVP playerbase, but luckily for the devs the PVP playerbase was small to begin with. Thought I was clear in that, but I guess not.

Yes I know they listen. I can tell by how the pvp bugs make the known issue list. I can tell by how much they post here. I can tell by how much they pm me back. Even if you don't agree with people its good to recognize them and let them know they were heard. That is clearly not the case here. Nor has it really ever been. Nor will it ever be. Keep lying to yourself and saying if you do it nice they may listen. We tried that. Alot of people even warned us back then to not trust it that they didn't care. It seems even you agree on how that turned out. Fool me once.......

To add to what Mac said, the remaining PVPers CONTINUE to have well-reasoned threads with potential fixes for the CURRENT system as well, and the devs CONTINUE to leave PVP bugs and i13-style PVP rules as they are.

There are powers that are just broken in PVP and they continue to stay broken. The market has a stacking bug and it's brought down as soon as it's discovered. Some PVP bugs have been in place for more than a year or more. Clearly the devs have made it obvious PVP is way, way, way, way back on the very backmost back burner.

It's not even a matter of these suggestions and fixes falling on deaf ears. The devs have respec'd ears out of their builds when it comes to PVP. It's understandable that's going to drive some players (SOME) to throw mud in the devs direction.

Sadly, it wasn't just as simple as being ignored. In some cases the changes moved in the complete opposite direction of what was asked.

That's not disregard for the player base. That's a slap in the face. That's as clear a "**** you" message as could possible be sent.

The Devs have been very neglectful and abusive to my super kitty since i13 and these are the results of their actions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrh_QNSj5gQ

Originally Posted by Black_Barrier Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...

so if a customer is a dick to you its ok to turn out a ****** product? what kind of logic is that? what does that say about YOU and YOUR work ethic? if i was a dev and i13 was something i was forced to work on i would have pulled a lighthouse and told everyone the company's intentions and left.

i highly doubt that the devs responsible for the pvp changes here will be able to find another job in the industry... maybe if they left this job off their resume.

Pure win.

I have more of a clue than you think I do. I bolded the part that is exactly my point.

About 3 people being reasonable. The rest of them were all saying stuff like this:

That's what the rest of the playerbase, and to some extent probably the devs, think ALL PvPers are like. If you thought ALL of a particular group was like that, would YOU give a damn what they had to say?

Did my remarks justify my name being ridiculed and being told to get cancer? Not even a little. But THAT is the face of the PvP community. The small number of reasonable people (I include you and macskull in that group, I have no issue with either of you) are just drowned out by the chorus of rude, mean-spirited people that seem to think spewing insults is how you relate to other people.

3 people being reasonable are not going to make a difference when they are standing in a crowd that is screaming insults and throwing rocks. They are going to be ignored right along with the people that deserve to be.

Go read the thread titled "PvP and Badge hunting just don't mix". I was firmly on the PvPers side throughout the entire thread, and I caught a lot of crap for it.

All I'm saying is, if you want to see change happen, letting people like Borderline Boss represent the PvP community to the rest of the playerbase and devs isn't the way to get it done.

Look at what they changed in i17. Healed back to full on respawn and can no longer be teleported out of the hospital recovery room. I happen to be happy about both of those things, since the second was why I didn't like going to Siren's Call. They're clearly listening to SOMEONE. And that someone was probably reasonable and courteous about it.

If Borderline Boss had asked for it, with the attitude he displayed in this thread toward me, do you think it would have happened? Probably not.

If you allow the perception of the PvP community to be that of a group of people who spew insults with little or no provocation, and have no regard for anyone else, then it will continue to be ignored. 3 people being reasonable about it is not enough.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

You were trolled by Hot Heels, welcome to the pvp forums yadda yadda. Moving on...

Respawning at full health and the new arena options added for i17 are cool. Who asked for these changes though? There are many pvp bugs that have been reported for months that have been ignored, veat/dwarf knockback protection and placate proc are 2 that spring to mind immediately. How do pointless QoL changes get done before bug fixes?

As others have said there have been many members of the pvp community and even some non-pvpers who have given very well written feedback, done research and testing, and offered some good suggestions. The only time I remember any of these being commented on was by Sunstorm. If you do a search you'll see that he's no longer a red name (I've asked a dev and a gm about this in game and both were "we don't talk" about it).

When i13 was being pushed through, it was said that pvp would no longer be ignored. After a few changes to the newly implemented system pvp was ignored once again and continues to be. It has been almost a year and a half since i13 and pvp has been largely ignored. It's been stated that the team at paragon studios has increased significantly since the split from cryptic, how is it that there isn't a developer dedicated to pvp balancing and bug fixing. We know there's multiple people working on the Architect system, at minimum rednames Dr. Aeon and Black Scorpion. With all the 'exp fixes' I'm sure there are as many regular pvpers as there are pvers using the architect regularly.

Simply put PvP is not a priority for the development team and the community has mostly given up trying to provide useful feedback; it has no effect.

QoL changes are easier to FIND than the cause of a bug?

Bugs are weird. A minor tweak to a completely unrelated power could be causing the problems you mention here. The only way to find it is to either A) search every single line of code in the game until you find it, or B) get lucky and stumble across it while you're doing something else.

Compared to that, QoL additions are easy to do.





It's not so much that the community has given up as it is the few reasonable members of it have. Now all the devs hear, for the most part, is insults and bile.

If you want to blame someone, blame the members of the PvP community that are giving the whole thing a bad name.

I've had a couple well thought out responses to my remarks in this thread. Which is FAR more than I was expecting. I was expecting every response to be full of the kind of crap Borderline Boss spewed at me. Because, even though I am well aware that not everyone is like that, that is the behavior I've come to expect from PvPers. Now imagine the reaction of people whose ONLY interaction with a PvPer was like that. They probably aren't going to think very highly of the community as a whole, because they have no reason not to believe that person isn't representative of everyone. It's like viewing the Westboro Baptis Church as being representative of all of Christianity.

Simply put, until you stop allowing the idiots to determine how the PvP community is perceived by posting rude, poorly spelled, mean-sprited things in every thread remotely related to PvP, the PvP community will continue to be ignored. I mean, I know you can't control what people post, but one of them posts in a thread about PvP (that ISN'T in this section), and no one bothers to contradict them, leaving the impression that that one jacktard speaks for the entire community.

Believe me, I'd LOVE for the devs to pay attention to the people who like PvP and can make a good case for it. But as long as they think PvPers are just a bunch of childish, selfish jerks who only want an excuse to be exactly that, it's unlikely to happen.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Obviously not. Because if you had any clue, you'd know the number wasn't even remotely close to 3. More like 300.



People that generalize to that extent are really stupid. Please don't do it. It makes you look really dumb.

Originally Posted by Black_Barrier Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...

He isn't talking about randomly occuring events like typing in your city being "quito" and having the program close or lag causing an offset into the read of a table and you get the hibernate animation instead of fire blast once in a while. Its not even something that might require a coding change like punchvoke doing aoe damage.

He is talking about flags on powers which have been improperly set, i.e. probably overlooked. Most of them are simply ignoring diminishing returns, which should simply be entering a number in a column or drop down for the power definition if power creation has been properly set up. One of the others is Defender TK, which still simply has an effect it shouldn't in pvp zones, probably because it was overlooked for removal when it was ported to pvp.

Some of these have been around for awhile. Some of them has been described by quick fixes by devs themselves.

Somehow i dont see how entering a missing value is harder than whip up some travel supppression field around bases.

A red name was honest, He came out and said I13 wasnt for us and got fired the next day.
Honesty will get you no where.

I wonder how Lighthouse is doin.

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

Yes, in fact I DID say that. And I still stand by it.

I never once in this thread said that PvPers weren't right to be pissed.

All I said is that being insulting toward the people who can change the things you're pissed about isn't helping your cause any.

The thing they JUST did in i17 was make it so you respawn in the hospital with full health and endurance. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't that an i13 change that they reversed?

I'd say that's a step in the right direction.

Saying "Screw the devs, they're lazy and incompetent and never listen anyway" isn't achieving anything at all. In fact, it's probably making it more difficult to get them to listen to you.

You can keep saying I don't know what I'm talking about all you want. It won't change the fact that giving the devs crap is accomplishing nothing.

And if you disagree with that, find one positive thing that was achieved by insulting the dev team.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

what power do i have to shape your opinion of me? my actions. if you judge me by someone else's actions you are the one in error. alternatively, this is the internet and everyone is entitled to an opinion until they get banned for going too far. it sounds like your issue is with the forum rules tbh, maybe you should propose some kind of ettiquete system to a mod..

imo, you cant look at one small sect of a group and generalize the whole group. having said that, i personally have seen far more non-pvpers acting more callous/meanspirited towards anyone who even mentions pvp when talking about new game features/changes, but i dont necessarily hate people who enjoy that part of the game(though i will say market manipulators have a special place in hell). noone will come out a winner in this arguement if we continue to point out every one of each others flaws and it will only serve to divide the already small community of CoH/V players further.