Couple of PVP Changes with i17

i know for a fact you dont always get a notification, and good or bad doesnt matter if they decide you broke a forum rule.

so

If I say you seem like a retard and name names THATS ok

But if i say con, max, and bb are some of the worst trolls thats not.

kk I THINK I understand

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

I did also point out "that's what got you reported". Mod's rarely peruse threads for violations. Someone has to use the report post button to bring their attention to it. So there could be several other posts in the same thread violating the same rule but only the one reported will get smacked. Hope that further clarifies.

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

ding ding ding, we have a winner

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

You can email it to my global, thanks in advance.

I'll be the first to guess. Conflict and myself. Ok, please meet me under the atlas statue to transfer the money. Don't worry con, I'll give you half.

By the way, I've never reported a single post in the history of these forums. Just throwin that out there in case you may be interested in reality, instead of just your stupid assumptions.

edit: damn you con! you beat me to the moneyz!

So, i13 meant to make pvp more like pve by making powers do completely different things compared to pve when used in pvp zones? look at single target holds damage, look at basically every aoe attack, and lets not forget how little buffs help anymore...

nice try but that analogy fails because you ignored that back then we neither had ED nor DR affecting us. the smart people back then could steamroll all content on all defender teams better than the rest, in todays pvp there are several hard barriers to anyone who tries to use a suboptimal setup vs the accepted good builds.

this makes no sense. being good and winning isnt winning, being bad with friends is winning?? also you are going to have to stop villifying the playerbase. it only serves to deepen the red on your rep bubbles.

again, the playerbase cant be wrong. its like water flowing downhill or electricity: it will always take the path of least resistance. before i13 there were some impediments but there were far more paths to reach the goal. a kill/point for the team=winning btw, this is after all a combat based game, but now buffers get farmed and most kinds of disruption are a risk to a team lineup because it gives the opponent something easier to kill to focus-fire on.

its because of i13 that niche builds arent seen anymore. i used to play snowflake builds like you and until i13 hit they were just fine vs good ones.

I thought PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER is about who gets the kills.........most? I mean...it is COMBAT based correct? Just like FPS and any other competetive games out there, minus sports. I mean...in wrestling we gotta pin the other player down...in boxing we gotta knock him out or get a decision (which in this game is next to impossible since the system isn't that sophisticated..duh), in FPSs, teams must outkill the other.....I mean...I would assume that's the GOAL of PvP. I mean...LOGIC seems to lead to that answer...yet...kills over and over and over again isn't PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER in a COMBAT BASED GAME?

Wow.....and I thought the cage the spike target was bad....

All the reseach can be done on what will get kills the fastest and get farmed the least in arena. It matters little when the only skill required there is to lock fire and phase when spiked. I am 100% certain that I could roll a Psy/EM blaster and do well in arena...

Test my theory though... take the best at arena and do a KB with just a simple rule of no duplicate set/set combinations per team. Good and knowledgable PvPers shouldn't have anything to worry about by doing this... would such a simple rule eliminate the competiveness? I don't think so. Tell me what adjustments would have to be made by the team leaders.

It's like we want PvP to require skill and then we only promote what requires the least. I don't believe people aren't trying new things everyday. I just believe that many are doing so in vain and end up with the same conclusion of uselessness when such has less to do with a build than we want to admit.

I'm not sure what you're gtting at only because SC and RV are all bout the zone event regardless of how LOL and ignored is comes across to many PvPers... If you get several peeps to participate on both sides it can be extremely fun for all. NPCs scare some PvPers though so it's likely any other mini game added by the devs would be ridculed and ignored as well.

It isn't that hard to create such mini games without the devs though. I've witnessed and enjoyed many times where zone turned into teams battling over "Who runs the Tram" or "King of the (hill) AP building." These days though even Tankers are afraid to die in a zone... most nowadays just run away to base as fast as they can... and then brag about their skillfulness in doing so. They don't mak'em like they used to.

And I am certain that I could play violin like a virtuoso too, if only I actually tried it. After all, I play guitar, and they both have strings, amirite?

If you're so positive you'd do well, try it. Hell, if you're so amazing and useful to teams on all your toons, you don't even need a psy/em. Just bring your flying dom and own everybody. After all, arena is no different from zones. The goal is to get kills and not die, while helping your team do the same. You claim you're really good at this in zones, so I don't see why you wouldn't be in the arena. Yet for some reason you have this mentality that you will NEED to a psy/em to do arena.

Come on Dahjee, think outside the box for a second. You can show all the "arean boys" how effective a flying dom can be.

Keep in mind, you have been focusing on team play as the focus of i13. I brought up arena because nowhere will you find more dedicated research into team dynamics. PVP is about defeating your opponents.

1st paragraph: Maybe with alot of practice you'd be good on a Psi/Em. We're talking about Team arena play right? it's quite a bit different from zone play.

2nd paragraph: Such rule would limit any kills to 0 in arena resulting in ties over and over again. Believe me, you need lots of damage to get kills. Wait are we talkign i13 rules? Sudden Death is generally not accepted as winning a match. However, take that new team of no set duplication and run it against a standard jump team, guess who wins, and by alot?

I don't know why you appear not accept the fact many other people have tried a myriad of combinations (again we are talking team play right? Because you said that's what i13 is all about) in hopes of finding something that works.

Guess what? They have found what works. It's not what you accept, but if you ignore what has been done before you came along then you are doomed to numerous trips to respawn points over and over. That's why you've been getting so much flack because you are preaching the opposite of what has already been determined to work well.

You're right, it wouldn't really eliminate competiveness. It would just make the teams weaker than they could be otherwise.

Instead of, for example a team like...3 psy/em, 2 emp, 2 elec stalkers, 1 fort

...it would be 1 psy, 1 sonic, 1 fire blaster, 1 emp, 1 therm, 1 elec stalker, 1 spines stalker, and 1 fort.

Whootpydoo....the variety is just mind boggling huh. And for what? Just to make the team weaker? It's still the same AT's, just less effective powersets.

Powers and the cahnges made are less important than the role those powers are used to fufill. I don't think is was the intention of the devs to have everyone who wants to PvP take a class on every single difference in PvE vs PvP powers. I think they maybe wanted a Tanker to be able to be a Tanker and perhaps have teammates to make up for their weaker damage and lack of ranged attacks... as an example.


Sorry that wasn't meant to be a totally factual statement. It's just what the current PvP reminds me of.

try to compare good and successful per AT as you would in PvE... you might find that one's abilty to get kill after kill while their teammates drop dead repeatedly is what makes for a pretty lousy toon or player. My apologies for speaking in general at the PvP playerbase as a whole. I recognize doing so can make people give me more bad rep. I only do it at times to emphasize my points. I'm aware that I am incapable of speaking for all or knowing what all is doing. (I wish more peeps here were aware of this as well)


I don't disagree, but to me it seems like you are saying that I13 made it tougher to be good as is, and reduced the "easy"toons (those that require the least to be good) down to just a few FoTM builds. This is all fine until it reaches the boards. I13 was traumatizing for some (dramatic I know) and so many turned here for advice... handing out FoTM to each and all was a poor decision IMO. It dumbed down PvP in this game, and it is evident each time I Zone.

If it's easier to kill now in arena... them that means it's harder to keep someone alive. In time I'm sure those who arena will learn to get better at this. Anti-Spiking is coming I'm sure... one day. until then though we'll continue to force Pvpers to take phase and Hib, right?



I play them quite often. I stand in the middle. I stand between the casual PvPer (PvE mostly with some PvP) and the Hardcore PvPer (PvE just to PvP)

I say this becasue I PvP almost 95% of the time I spend in game these days... but I don't PL my toons for it. This is not a biased stance but just a preference...to each thier own. I spend months leveling and IO'ing/prepping a toon for PvP. I pick builds based on what I niche to be in PvE and make damn sure theycan carry that role into PvP. I don't make toons for PvP.

I have a brute named Krakel... it doens't have taunt but it still can agrro and pull players as if they were npcs. DB/SR. Regardless of whether it is teamed or not, it is there stirring up aggro just to get the attention away from stalkers and doms and corrs... so they can fufill their roles. No. It's not a sucky toon nor does it gt farmed etc..

Any toon can work when that build is proven to fufill the role of the AT. It unfortunately is up to the players standing next to that toon to decide if they will recognoze and benefit. I'd encourage you to play your snowflake build and maximize whatever niche is has. Do that and do it well and you will attract people that will aprreciate that niche. At least it is what has happened for me.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

The request was for both teams to follow a "No Dups" rule.


Hey I'm being quite humble here. I make no claims of being an avid arena PvPer. I currently have very few toons made for 10 min matches where killing for +1s are all that is required. I have plenty experience but I left it alone a long time ago. I was simply asking those who ARE to give it a go. If it's too much to ask there's no need to flame me for it.

so what you are saying is if someone asks me what build does best and, having played with or against them all, i give advice that i am hurting the community? your issue is with the developers, not the players. dont shoot the messenger...etc.

if by force you mean defeating them repeatedly if they dont take them, then yes. its difficult for support to keep people alive because of heal decay and travel supression, not because of some jerk pvper. you might have been joking but iirc there was anti-spiking code but it was removed for being too buggy or messing with pve or something.

me too. imo, all the more reason to consider a pvp build in advance. especially if you pvp so much.

um...how? are you broadcast pvping? if i am on a blaster and see a dom a corr and a brute there is no way in hell i am ignoring the damage/debuff powerhouses to toy with a brute. especially one that will be dancing around using db, i could probably kill both of them before 1kcuts animates...
there are no roles in pvp. pve roles are a crutch to introduce new players to the pve artificial intelligence. in pvp the intelligence is very real and will not hesitate to exploit the weaknesses it knows you have.

Hmm, yes, but we want someone to win right? If i13 PVP had been successful then the best team would be a mixed set up like you suggest. Currently the overall best team
consists of emps and blasters. A team that would easily trounce a team that you suggest.

What's the point of entering into a competitive scenario and only playing mediocre setup when you can play the best?

I guess we both know the answer although you don't seem to want to say it.

*** pwned

I'm not an avid arena PvP'er either. Haven't done it since the days of Lion's Den and HVND, meaning like 2-3 years ago.

But that doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. I still know what's good and what's not, what does work and what doesn't.

Your idea simply won't work. Your team of "thinking outside the box" players will get beaten like 60 to 1 every single time. Not because you suck as players, but because you're playing horrible toons instead of ones PROVEN to be good.

I think the only issue lies in your (and anyone elses) thinking you have the ability to know what is best for all. The best "power" for a job sure. The best slow or debuff power in a particular set.. sure speak on it, but assuming that one set/set combo is best regardless of the person behind the toon is a bad way to go about coaching. Such practice HAS created more bad players than good players since I13. As you say... don't shoot the messenger.


They took heal spamming away and it seems people forgot how to think.... The "Anti-Spiking" I refer to is no code but a practice of preventing your less able bodied teammates form getting spiked repeatedly. I mean.. it's definately what I practice when on support toons. I may be no outright and feared killer on my Dom, but I can make damn sure that blasters can't do their job either. Mac might downplay the effectiveness of -damage powers or -perception powers or AoE attacks when one toon is using it, but 3 or 4 of those powers coordianated has been shown to work time and time again.

We promote phase and hibernate because we gave up on the idea of defensive teaming (so to speak) Every toon MUST fend for themselves right? You're saying the Devs made us play this way?
I PvP. Meaning I fight against players not toons. My /SR gets stronger at lower HP so I built for it.... lower HP attracts PvPers to try and get a kill. I stand in NPC mobs.... My defense is too much for most of NPCs in zones and doing so builds fury fast while attracting players to try and get an easy kill. I aggro. I get players to group up and try to attack me... in the process, smart teammates use me to their advantage.

For anyone who agrees with this statement please keep in mind that the game has a design based on AT roles. Stepping away from these roles and complaining about sets being useless come across as absurd to me... and I can only imagine what it sounds like to the people that develop this game.... especially when they went through all the trouble to revamp PvP to emphasize this.

These roles are described on the character creation screen btw. Maybe it's time we all took a step back and started over with these thing in mind. If a damage spamming Blaster, scrapper , or stalkers s the role yo widsh to play, cool... but we should stop telling ourselves that these are the only roles out there. (generalized but you get my point)

Shouldn't the best team be the one with the best players? the team with the best PvP skill, knowledge of team strengths and weakness, and the team that does a better job of PvPing as a team? I mean isn't that why they can make up rules about no "all stalker" teams and no this and that... to prevent bad teams from winning based solely on stacking one tactic? I could speculate as well like you did on whether there would be a winner but the only real way to find out would be to ask the bestest arena folks to try it and get back to us.

I agree that a standard and stale Jump team consisting of the same proven tactic and the same builds would beat a random and varied set up of toons. I don't think I gave any impression otherwise though you see you seem to act as if I did.

The devs cannot change this mentality with ruleset changes or fixes. PvPers can. It's as simply as saying "hey, we made up another rule!"

Fun is the point. Ask yourself the same question for PvE, and then ponder why instead of everyone playing the same 8 combos... people have this weird habit of picking and playing with what they want out of 100s of poweset combos to choose from.

Mediore setup vs Mediore setup match = as much competition and fun as an uber setup vs uber setup. It's likely it may not be as fun to some dependant on cookie cut builds and FoTM because it just may require a lot more thought and skill from some peeps who haven't used either in some time.

uber setup vs mediocre setup means the uber setup will win, but it also means it will be copied, pasted, and end up turning high end arena into a bunch of the same doing the same and... oh wait... I think arena has reached that point already. Given the fact that arena is the closet to Pre-I13 one can get... and given the fact that most organized matches will run with those settings... and given the fact that there is far far far less viable sets to succeed with there... bah. What I'm getting at will stir too many emotions so I'll leave it to you all to get the point I was about to make.