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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Please note the players you mentioned are only better at being jerks when jerks show themselves. If you actually knew Con and/or Barrier (I don't really know Max) you'd realize they only trash talk loud mouthy players who start spewing off in the first place.
If a player asks for help with a build or PVP tactics then these guys would be the first to jump in and offer helpful advice/guidance and they'd be spot on with their tips. They don't start the trash talk, they're just better at doing it. |
Actually Con is one of the people who has always answered any question I have asked and taken the time to elaborate on the why's. It's all about how you approach someone and your missing that, talk **** get **** back just more eloquently delivered.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
I13 wasn't simply aimed at ridding the PvP community of it's jerkiest players, but the high-end mindless approach that many of those jerks adopted and often mastered.
It's intent (as can be quoted) was to allow for any AT and powerset combinations to work better in PvP. In order to do this they basically nerfed all in a way that forced us to be more dependant on other ATs just like they would do in PvE. The problem is that the mentality of a standard hardcore PvPer is one that thinks very little of a PvE stlye of teaming and also the fact that IOs can often completely negate the need for teammates and/or teamwork. Many set/sets that cannot achieve this got labeled as non-viable when in fact, all is viable if you have a teammate(s) to fill in for one's weakness.
PvP currently is comparable to the PvE world back in I2 or I3, when not knowing much about much led to most rolling blasters and scrappers and needing only Healzors because all else was said to underperform. It's funny at times to see one who considers their self to be skilled at PvP when all they really do is get kills over and over. That's not PvP. It happens in PvP, but it's silly to design a game where that is all that matters. I13 sought to rid of that mentality, but instead the playerbase just discouraged the use of any set that needed assitance and promoted the ones that stood high above all. The easy route.
Again "Revamp" meant we should have started PvPing a different way, but instead we just found whatever sets and tactics that would allow us to continue that same tired damage spamming = skill mentality, and we wondered why it seemed to be less fun after I13. Many left due to this (not as many as I would have liked lol) but not all, and so we continue to label things as good-better-best when it is quite unneccessry to do so.
Many view getting farmed as a sign of a bad set or player when more often than not it's a sign of poor teammates and teamwork. As ironic as it may seem... too many of us have gimped our builds into successful soloists... when I13 was meant for us to do just the opposite. One can argue that I13 gave us no choice, but I call BS on such a notion... theres always a choice.
The potential for good PvP is out there and evident. It is indeed avioded by many PvEers because of the jerk mentality of many, but not all, and far too often it is avoided because a PvEer learns very quickly that their role will not be noticed or appreciated... that their weaknesses will not be made up for from an ally, and that their limited strength and/or niche will be unwelcome unused, or simpy unnoticed.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Wow, someone managed to delete my post.
Notice how its deleted from supermax's quoted reply and not mercury downs quoted reply
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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what about this?|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
I am probably the best zone **** talker in the history of this game. Others can have burst of competition but day in day out I am the only real choice.
Honorable mention to Barrier. And a dude I played with alot on Justice named Ignicity. |
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Originally Posted by Supermax
I don't know con, I've owned quite a few people in bcast PvP. For many years. I have to give a mention to BB too.
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Mind you, this was the first 2 posts on the thread.
I guess you only talk smack on the forums and not ingame. right!!!
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Yall dont know when to shut up.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Dahjee, I don't see how you can believe this. Before i13, buffers, healers, debuffers all had regular roles to fill in PVP (in both zone and arena.) Now? Everything healers, buffers and debuffers do is all DR'd to near uselessness. |
Originally Posted by Dahjee
It's intent (as can be quoted) was to allow for any AT and powerset combinations to work better in PvP. In order to do this they basically nerfed all in a way that forced us to be more dependant on other ATs just like they would do in PvE. The problem is that the mentality of a standard hardcore PvPer is one that thinks very little of a PvE stlye of teaming and also the fact that IOs can often completely negate the need for teammates and/or teamwork. Many set/sets that cannot achieve this got labeled as non-viable when in fact, all is viable if you have a teammate(s) to fill in for one's weakness., etc...
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There is a reason you see 10:1 (probably a little high but not far off) ratios of scrappers, tanks and blasters heroside to everything else and 10:1 stalkers to everything else villside. How in the world did the devs accomplish the task of including more builds and roles in PVP with i13? Clearly it has failed miserably simply by looking at what is played.
Look, I commend you for trying toons that are not your typical PVP beast-type toons, but ultimately the proof is in the pudding. Players play what works with plenty of evidence to be found by "/whoall." In i12 there were plenty more builds that were viable and effective than you'll find today. It has nothing to do with brainwashing and everything to do with effectiveness. Players are not going to play toons they are consistently destroyed on. It's no fun.
i13 has failed, and if the devs truly want to include more builds/ATs in PVP then they need to find a happy medium between i13 and i12. They could start by getting rid of global resists, diminishing returns, and travel suppresion (oh wait that's pretty much all of i13.)
Reduced mez effects and resistance to all damage type givin to ALL players inzone elimanated almost all use for /thermal corruptors.
Suppression while healing along with heal decay took care of the rest.
I know, I used to turn zones when id log onto my thermal.
Now? What can thermal corruptors do as a "support" players?
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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lol are you serious? That was a joke thread.|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
I guess you only talk smack on the forums and not ingame. right!!! |
You're calling someone a trash talker because they said in a joke thread that they're "good at bcast PvP"? Wow, ok.
Maybe you should actually run into someone in the game one single time before you make accusations about them.
A good therm, emp or pain dom can still be huge in zone.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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Just for the damage and heals though, pretty much. They used to provide so much more |
Originally Posted by ConFlict
A good therm, emp or pain dom can still be huge in zone.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Just for the damage and heals though, pretty much. They used to provide so much more
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true.
wanted to touch on this quote
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| Wow, someone managed to delete my post. |
That someone is forum moderator. It means you probably shouldn't have said what you said. And I am sure they just missed the remains of it in the other post.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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Well, the biggest example of jerkish behavior I've personally seen was just eliminated entirely by being made impossible. |
Originally Posted by Supermax
People only care about jerks when they lose.
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Using TP Foe to pull someone out of the Siren's Call hospital with a sliver of health is borderline jerkish.
Doing it over and over because you think it's funny is definitely being a jerk. Especially if it's done in order to prevent the person from leaving the zone. You can't leave if you keep getting teleported before you can get out of the hospital, and you couldn't even just stay dead until they got bored and left because of the auto-respawn feature that they added for some reason. I've had that happen to me, and logging out was the only way I could get out of the situation.
People who do things like THAT are the undesirables I was talking about. The people who just like to PvP are not. I never said all PvPers are jerks, because I know from my own experience that it isn't true.
I don't mind losing a PvP fight. It happens frequently, and I don't get bent out of shape about it. If they threw something at me I wasn't expecting I might even ask some questions about their build. If it was an especially good fight that I lost I'll make sure to give them props on it.
I have no problem with losing at PvP. If I keep coming back when I get smoked....well, I was asking for it wasn't I? The problem I had was with people being ***holes until someone logs out because they had no other way to get out of the situation.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Forum moderators send a private message to your control panel when posts are deleted, and why they are deleted. I got nothing from a mod.|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
true.
wanted to touch on this quote That someone is forum moderator. It means you probably shouldn't have said what you said. And I am sure they just missed the remains of it in the other post. |
It was actually a positive post with nothing bad in it.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Just to further explain, Merc only quoted your post partially and what was quoted by him most likely did not include the forum rule violating wording. My guess is (i can't remember) Max quoted the whole post, and thus also required deletion. Usually you get a PM telling you a post was deleted beause you violated forum rule x *looks at all the old PM's from Nivine and Mod 08* I maybe speaking from experience.... It doesn't look like it was Mod 08 tough since he usually leaves a lil *edited by mod 08* message and i don't know if the other forum moderators actually send PM's. Woops edited there is the lil edited by mod 08 message i missed it till Con pointed it out.
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Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Wow, someone managed to delete my post.
Notice how its deleted from supermax's quoted reply and not mercury downs quoted reply |
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Well, the biggest example of jerkish behavior I've personally seen was just eliminated entirely by being made impossible.
Using TP Foe to pull someone out of the Siren's Call hospital with a sliver of health is borderline jerkish. Doing it over and over because you think it's funny is definitely being a jerk. Especially if it's done in order to prevent the person from leaving the zone. You can't leave if you keep getting teleported before you can get out of the hospital, and you couldn't even just stay dead until they got bored and left because of the auto-respawn feature that they added for some reason. I've had that happen to me, and logging out was the only way I could get out of the situation. People who do things like THAT are the undesirables I was talking about. The people who just like to PvP are not. I never said all PvPers are jerks, because I know from my own experience that it isn't true. I don't mind losing a PvP fight. It happens frequently, and I don't get bent out of shape about it. If they threw something at me I wasn't expecting I might even ask some questions about their build. If it was an especially good fight that I lost I'll make sure to give them props on it. I have no problem with losing at PvP. If I keep coming back when I get smoked....well, I was asking for it wasn't I? The problem I had was with people being ***holes until someone logs out because they had no other way to get out of the situation. |
Jaden Toreth was/is the only person that I know to do that on the reg. And yes HE is a jerkface.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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True. DR turned away many players from PvPing with their support toons, but I cannot agree that any one of those roles has been reduced to uselessness. Again it is the combination of not just the best sets but the best powers from different sets required to achieve the results that I12 and before allowed just one toon to do on their own. It's tricky and should have been the focus of many of our community's "numbers" guys to focus on. |
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Dahjee, I don't see how you can believe this. Before i13, buffers, healers, debuffers all had regular roles to fill in PVP (in both zone and arena.) Now? Everything healers, buffers and debuffers do is all DR'd to near uselessness.
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
There is a reason you see 10:1 (probably a little high but not far off) ratios of scrappers, tanks and blasters heroside to everything else and 10:1 stalkers to everything else villside. How in the world did the devs accomplish the task of including more builds and roles in PVP with i13? Clearly it has failed miserably simply by looking at what is played.
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Look, I commend you for trying toons that are not your typical PVP beast-type toons, but ultimately the proof is in the pudding. Players play what works with plenty of evidence to be found by "/whoall." In i12 there were plenty more builds that were viable and effective than you'll find today. It has nothing to do with brainwashing and everything to do with effectiveness. Players are not going to play toons they are consistently destroyed on. It's no fun.
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
i13 has failed, and if the devs truly want to include more builds/ATs in PVP then they need to find a happy medium between i13 and i12. They could start by getting rid of global resists, diminishing returns, and travel suppresion (oh wait that's pretty much all of i13.)
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"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Forum moderators send a private message to your control panel when posts are deleted, and why they are deleted. I got nothing from a mod.
It was actually a positive post with nothing bad in it. |
Look real man of genius a couple of facts for you. Only a mod can perform the function in question. Second the edited part in merc's post says last edited by mod 08. I know a huge leap of logic has to take place here but I have faith.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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imma try to retype what i posted.|
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
Just to further explain, Merc only quoted your post partially and what was quoted by him most likely did not include the forum rule violating wording. My guess is (i can't remember) Max quoted the whole post, and thus also required deletion. Usually you get a PM telling you a post was deleted beause you violated forum rule x *looks at all the old PM's from Nivine and Mod 08* I maybe speaking from experience....
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"Clawsandeffects. your a great player who gives great advice.
However, your advice about restaurants running a patron outta the business by changing prices/music etc etc is wrong.
I run a restaurant. its what ive done my whole life.
If a patron is unruly or rude to customers theyre asked to leave. Plain and simple. If they dont wanna go peacefully the big meathead bouncer will show them the door.
Changin prices on what that rude patron drinks will only make him switch to something else, and im stuck with stock that wont sell cuz other stuff is cheaper.
I dont need any reason to kick a patron at of my bar (at least in virginia) and I have a sign outside the front door that says "management has the right to refuse service".
Pvp used to be fun, id spend hours in there daily. Ive spent probably 20 hours total pvp'n since I13 hit.
some of our regular forum pvp'er are the biggest smack talkers there are, namely, conflict, BB and supermax."
Now what pray tell would a mod find offensive about said post?
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Are you serious? I PvP'd in sirens for many years, probably more than almost everybody in the game. You know how many times this happened to me? Zero.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Using TP Foe to pull someone out of the Siren's Call hospital with a sliver of health is borderline jerkish.
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There's a 30 second countdown where you're 100% untouchable for a reason. If you can't walk 15 feet in 30 seconds to leave the zone, something is wrong with you, not with the person trying to kill you. It's pretty natural in PvP to go for the weakest target. You sound like a really easy target. The solution is to get better and play smarter, not to blame your opponents.
To reiterate, I've spent more time in sirens than you probably ever will, and I have not run into this a single time. I think you're really exaggerating.
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Wait.. wut?
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Maybe you should actually run into someone in the game one single time before you make accusations about them. |
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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My bad, reading comprehension for teh loss.|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
Look real man of genius a couple of facts for you. Only a mod can perform the function in question. Second the edited part in merc's post says last edited by mod 08. I know a huge leap of logic has to take place here but I have faith.
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I didnt notice the mod 08 edit.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
Nah, we need to start over. The PvP community is broken, and no changes to come will convince anyone here to applaud PvP in this game as long as the current mentality of teaming, success, usefulness and uselessness in PvP remain the same as is was pre-I13.
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Dahjee, I don't know your PVP history but I can tell you the players who stayed since i13 DID start over. While zone tends to be a mix/mash of builds and ATs, arena has always been the focus for team-oriented play and plenty of research has been done on different builds/AT combinations and research continues to be done daily. The lack of diversity in builds/ATs is the way it is BECAUSE of research and experimentation not for lack of it.
You seem to think no one has tried anything else. You are just wrong if that's what you believe.
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The part I am quoting (sorry mod 08) is a direct personal attack, at least that would be my guesstamate on what rule that post violates. The rest of the post looks fine this would be my best guess, again you will probably get a PM Mod08 might not have gotten around to it yet.|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
some of our regular forum pvp'er are the biggest smack talkers there are, namely, conflict, BB and supermax." Now what pray tell would a mod find offensive about said post? |
For example I could say "Philly stop trolling" and that would be ok, saying "Philly your a troll" not ok. (I think anyway if i remember the wording) Not that i would ever be a troll on these forums
The fact that you named names would be what probably got it reported and erased.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
PvP currently is comparable to the PvE world back in I2 or I3, when not knowing much about much led to most rolling blasters and scrappers and needing only Healzors because all else was said to underperform. It's funny at times to see one who considers their self to be skilled at PvP when all they really do is get kills over and over. That's not PvP. It happens in PvP, but it's silly to design a game where that is all that matters. I13 sought to rid of that mentality, but instead the playerbase just discouraged the use of any set that needed assitance and promoted the ones that stood high above all. The easy route.
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This hmm idk let me explain. You say
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| It's funny at times to see one who considers their self to be skilled at PvP when all they really do is get kills over and over |
Then you follow it up with
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| The devs can only alter the system-change the game. It's unfair to assume they are responsible for what we the players choose to play. We the players are responsible for adding diversity to PvP |
If the devs really wanted people to pvp they woulda added more mini games instead all they did was change the rules. Diversity be damnded it would seem.
Con and barrier don't talk trash in zones, unless someone starts it with them first. And I talk less trash than they do, by a large margin. 99% of the time I don't even talk in bcast, unless I'm talking to one of my friends.
Please don't make yourself look ignorant by making completely false accusations.