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Gift of the ancients does the 1.8|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
There're at least 2 I can think of. Impervium Armor boosts it 2.25 with 4 enhancements and one bumps it 1.8 (weird number) but I cannot recall which. Of course I couldn't work in more than 2 4-sets of the Imp Armor on him (Eclipse and Black Dwarf).
I'll return at lunch with the name of the 1.8 set I have on him. |
Decimaiton also grants 2.25 so you ranged folks still have the option to add to your end bar without shields.
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And yet others do not have the same issue. That points to the issue being the player more than the game. If you are at 0 end at the end of every fight while popping blues the issue is probably you.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Inspirations are finite. Believe me, I've blown through so many damn blues on my MA/SR scrapper it's unbelievable. And, guess what? Im STILL back to 0 endurance by the end of the fight.
I would seriously ask for Rest to be given 0 recharge. Maybe a boost to base recovery, the debuff to Stamina only if it wound up with the same combined numbers in the end. None of this is about 'Waaah, I don't want to rest!'. Believe me, I'd like to rest more. But I can't. And I object to being made to feel like sub-par for the 12-22 range, through no fault of my own. The fact that it has happened on every character EXCEPT those with /Regen or a Defender says a lot. |
I was never really "pre-jaded." The early levels have felt like a tedious grind to me since the beginning. It's the most ridiculously tedious 20 levels of character creation I've ever trudged through...
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Since I consider the mechanic itself to be broken, sidestepping the mechanic almost entirely is "fixing" it. Increasing expenditures as you level without increased resources to compensate is bad. Like having static HP as you level while the enemies' damage increases would be bad.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Sorry, but no. When recovery rate exceeds the endurance spent by a comfortable margin, you've broken the game.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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So enhancemnts never increase? Yes you gain other powers that have higher endurance useage but you also can reduce your endurance costs by a higher degree as you level. At least if you make the choice to. Toggles cost less to run, attacks cost less to use unless you decide to not invest in those improvements. In effect you can do more with the same amount of end compared to previous levels. Also most sets have some means of edurance recovery available at the time when it starts to become an issue.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I was never really "pre-jaded." The early levels have felt like a tedious grind to me since the beginning. It's the most ridiculously tedious 20 levels of character creation I've ever trudged through...
Since I consider the mechanic itself to be broken, sidestepping the mechanic almost entirely is "fixing" it. Increasing expenditures as you level without increased resources to compensate is bad. Like having static HP as you level while the enemies' damage increases would be bad. |
Now I can get behind the idea of rest recharging faster. The earlier levels is when I seem to need it the most and it is never up fast enough. Higher levels, in most cases, I don't even have it on my UI since it is never needed. However if I did need it, I would have lvl 50 recharge SO or IO vs a lvl 6 TO. Yea rest could use a boost much more than having stamina just given to everyone because some people do not want to pay the costs associated with getting the power.
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Last night on my lvl 14 ma/sd I ran into a spawn in Steel Canyon that consisted of 1 yellow boss, 1 white lt and 4 blue minions. By the end of that fight I had 8 endurance left out of 100.| Do you honestly run out even then? Because THAT I have a hard time seeing. |
Entering the door mission I was headed to I was greeted at the door by a single yellow lt immediately followed up with a patrol of 6 white minions. I had to pop a blue to get through that fight.
This character has an end-red in each attack, and one in battle agility. Deflection doesn't get one because it is slotted 3def/3damres.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Wait, so you rested from the first fight and went into the mission at 100 endurance and you STILL ran out? That's... OK, I can believe you, but this is aberrant. What were you playing?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Entering the door mission I was headed to I was greeted at the door by a single yellow lt immediately followed up with a patrol of 6 white minions. I had to pop a blue to get through that fight.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I was at 100 health when I entered the mission. 1 yellow lt and 6 white minions prompted the use of a respite.
The ma/sd scrapper is set at +0/x2 yes bosses, no AVs
The point stands, Sam. Defeating a single spawn will reduce my endurance so far that I am unable to take on the following spawn without completely running dry on end unless I either eat insps like skittles or rest/wait between spawns.
This is not an aberration. This is common. Do I sprint between spawns? Yes. Do I slot an end-red in every attack? Yes. (Exceptions being truly low end attacks like claws-swipe) Do all toggles get an end-red? Yes. (One exception being Deflection which must be slotted for both defense and dam-res)
Do I finish missions anyway? Of course. That's not in question. Obviously I do or I wouldn't be getting to 22.
It's just a matter of nuisance. Nothing more, nothing less. Will it be changed? I seriously doubt it.
What it IS doing is making me seriously consider powerleveling a farmer on my brother's account to powerlevel all future lowbies on my account past the PITA levels. EDIT: Regardless of how distasteful I find that process.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Has anyone told you yet that the Fitness pool isn't actually required and that you are making the conscious choice to give up three of your potential powers in order to have slightly better endurance and health recovery?
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Originally Posted by Einsam
This is a collective idea, most credit goes to @Athicus
Lets face it, almost every archtype at some point or another takes the Fitness pool, or more specifically Stamina. Only VEATs have a version of Stamina as an inherent and they STILL need Stamina. A thought arose to change the pool into auto powers that unlock at certain levels, similar to Rest and Ninja Run (although not quite as soon). Similar to the Cape and Aura missions, although more of a solo-only trial or gauntlet that one must go through. It makes sense, after all when faced with overwealming odds, one steps back for additional training to make one's self tougher. Perhaps it could have a badge associated with it as well or something. Thoughts? |
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Had you bothered to read the thread you wouldn't have needed to ask that and you would have also seen the arguments showing that your stated belief is great for people that enjoy playing inefficient and sub-par characters.
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Originally Posted by MondoCool
Has anyone told you yet that the Fitness pool isn't actually required and that you are making the conscious choice to give up three of your potential powers in order to have slightly better endurance and health recovery?
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I was at 100 health when I entered the mission. 1 yellow lt and 6 white minions prompted the use of a respite.
The ma/sd scrapper is set at +0/x2 yes bosses, no AVs The point stands, Sam. Defeating a single spawn will reduce my endurance so far that I am unable to take on the following spawn without completely running dry on end unless I either eat insps like skittles or rest/wait between spawns. This is not an aberration. This is common. Do I sprint between spawns? Yes. Do I slot an end-red in every attack? Yes. (Exceptions being truly low end attacks like claws-swipe) Do all toggles get an end-red? Yes. (One exception being Deflection which must be slotted for both defense and dam-res) Do I finish missions anyway? Of course. That's not in question. Obviously I do or I wouldn't be getting to 22. It's just a matter of nuisance. Nothing more, nothing less. Will it be changed? I seriously doubt it. What it IS doing is making me seriously consider powerleveling a farmer on my brother's account to powerlevel all future lowbies on my account past the PITA levels. EDIT: Regardless of how distasteful I find that process. |
A lot of teen characters I've had go through the same thing to some extent. My Stone/Fire Brute (DOed with just Acc and End everywhere) was truly horrific and needed to Buff Farm the AE just to get me to 22 so I could deal with it.
You are suppose to be tired after pull off back to back combat...unless you are built not to which mean you reduce other options.
Stamina and endurance is working as intended...
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Hahahaha...I was almost convinced you were being serious in your posts. Good game you got me.
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Originally Posted by MondoCool
Post Deleted
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Wow. Finally someone with a lick of sense. Nobody seems to realize that superheroes can get tired too. And nobody still seems to realize that THE FITNESS POOL IS NOT REQUIRED TO PLAY THE GAME.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
You are suppose to be tired after pull off back to back combat...unless you are built not to which mean you reduce other options.
Stamina and endurance is working as intended... |
I've skipped Fitness on a few, a very few, of my characters - mostly for concept's sake. (Kind of like how I only took Hasten, along with the rest of the pool, on my MA/SR super-speedster.) The main example that comes to mind would be my bots/traps MM - he's getting on in years, and while he's decently spry for his age, that merely puts him to "average" in CoH terms. But the reason I can get away with this concept build is that an MM only really uses End during the setup phase; most of the time, I just stand back and let the bots do all the heavy lifting.
I wouldn't say that it's an "absolutely required" pool, but definitely a "recommended" and even a "why wouldn't you?" pool.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Fitness was not meant to be an inherent power for characters. It is the person's conscious choice to spend three power choices to get the little bit of endurance recovery they need. It's nowhere near required or necessary. I don't see the point of this thread: why are people whining so much about something they could easily avoid doing?
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
I've skipped Fitness on a few, a very few, of my characters - mostly for concept's sake. (Kind of like how I only took Hasten, along with the rest of the pool, on my MA/SR super-speedster.) The main example that comes to mind would be my bots/traps MM - he's getting on in years, and while he's decently spry for his age, that merely puts him to "average" in CoH terms. But the reason I can get away with this concept build is that an MM only really uses End during the setup phase; most of the time, I just stand back and let the bots do all the heavy lifting.
I wouldn't say that it's an "absolutely required" pool, but definitely a "recommended" and even a "why wouldn't you?" pool. |
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the game included end management as limitation.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Since I consider the mechanic itself to be broken.....
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there's a lot of stuff that would have to be completely reworked if it were removed or trivialized.
that isn't going to happen.
So "consider" away, but don't expect anything to come of it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Hey, I randomly ran across one that seems to be boosting maximum endurance. I sold it for 20 million, so I thought I'd have a look. Turns out the Decimation Ranged Damage set boosts maximum endurance by 2.5%. Not much, but it's there.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Why does the quick reply button keep randomly breaking?
Yall are talking about these endurance modification bonuses? http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/inven...20Modification Yup. Buff max end. Never noticed that. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree with this.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
But I don't want fitness changed.
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I don't take Stamina on EVERY character though - ALMOST every character I make does though - including Regen Scrappers. I can't remember if I've achieved a high enough level with a Willpower character to determine if I needed to get Stamina as well or not.
This situation with Stamina may be a new discussion with some people, but this has been going on for a very long time.
In order to "give in a bit" to this sort of thinking, the DEVs made leveling from level 1-20 faster ... repeatedly made it faster ...
Back in i1 it as a challenge to get from 11-15. Heck, I remember when level 1s still received debt when they fell in battle.
The game doesn't have to be pathetically easy to be fun. I would have still been here if the leveling mechanics were still the same as they had been in issue 1. I'm sure many of you would have complained but would still be playing if leveling was still like it was back then.
And it wasn't just the xp curve, the zones were FAR more dangerous back "in the day".
The challenge is what makes it exciting and gives you the thrill of victory when you are finally able to over-come something that was difficult or impossible before.
If there is no challenge, what does the reward mean?
(If you are a farmer, a pl'r, a door-sitter, AE baby, or other any form of exploiter, there is no need to answer that question as it is not directed to you. Obviously, you'd rather be spoon-feed.)
I definitely think that Fitness should be left as it is for the very reason that it serves a point to show that it takes effort to be come "physically fit" and, when it comes down to it, that you really need to be "physically fit" in order to be a superhero.
Just buck up and do a little running or jumping and you won't get winded so much ... no reason to make it a freebie - we already get tons of super powers.
And like B said, there are lots of other ways to get more END or a boost to your END Recovery speed ... including Insps.
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Heck, just look at their join date.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Your forum reputation would seem to contradict this, so either you are joking or I'm confused.
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"Join Date: Dec 2009"
Apparently, "noob" has become a generic 4-letter word to some people.
I find it extremely distasteful to see the use of the term in general even when it is used to express that someone is new to the game.
And, yeah, MondoCool, to those of us that have been around for years, someone that hasn't even been around for 6 months is definitely new to this game, so you definitely appear to be what you accuse ST of being - you are just that on multiple levels.
It would be nice if such as the vet travel options, you could skip the prerequisites for Stamina. I for one would skip Swift/Hurdle on all my toons and Health on most of them.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Though I have to say, while you (even me, I'd never skip on the fitness pool either...I only made one build that would ever do it, and that was a DM/Rgen that I'd have to spec into the build) wouldn't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Had you bothered to read the thread you wouldn't have needed to ask that and you would have also seen the arguments showing that your stated belief is great for people that enjoy playing inefficient and sub-par characters.
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If you want to be non-stop, hardly ever rest, kick-butt and go.
It can be done. It has been done.
Fitness is an option. It's a popular option. And it's a popular option for a reason.
This however is not a reason to make it an inherent. If someone doesn't want to be sucking wind, they should build for it. If that means putting Stamina into their build versus other things, that's up to them.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Actually. From a concept point of view, super hero/super villains, would most likely have fitness from a concept point of view.|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Take a look at this Wikipedia entry, Mondo. It should help you out a little: Wikipedia: Hypocrisy  Anyways, petty arguments with trolls aside, I don't really agree with the OP's idea. But I still do think there is something wrong with almost 90% of characters I meet in the game share a specific power: Stamina. Personally, I'd boost up the base endurance recovery for all character by half the value of Stamina so that there is less need for the power, and that we can see more variety. But it looks like there is gonna be no change in that area. |
So why wouldn't 90% of them have it as a power pool?
These are people who usually engage in lots and lots of physical activity.
Or going from a "well mines a robot" hero/villain...they'll want a better power supply.
You don't stay fit, you'll be sucking wind before you finish running that first mile.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I actually wanted to try a challenge at some point. And that was skipping Stamina, and instead relying on IO set bonuses to compensate for it (no one likes stopping and resting every other group).
After thinking over it many times, I think while theoretically feasible, it's not a practical substitution for Stamina, because of price and rarity of IOs at low levels. Still though...I think it's possible if price and rarity wasn't an issue.
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Yah, I see what you mean. That's a fair argument.
Originally Posted by BrandX
Actually. From a concept point of view, super hero/super villains, would most likely have fitness from a concept point of view.
So why wouldn't 90% of them have it as a power pool?
These are people who usually engage in lots and lots of physical activity.
Or going from a "well mines a robot" hero/villain...they'll want a better power supply.
You don't stay fit, you'll be sucking wind before you finish running that first mile.
Basically, it comes down to thinking "Man, I can do so many things I couldn't even imagine at level 1!" To a large extent, our "coming into" our modifiers is a great deterrent from that. A Blaster starts the game one-shotting things with an unslotted moderate-damage attack at level 1. A Blaster at level 50 can a little over one-shot things with a three-slotted extreme-damage attack plus Build Up plus Aim. As such, I see my performance actually DECREASE, to the point where I have to work harder at doing the same thing, which, to be quite honest, kills my sense of progress. That I can make that difference up with stronger attacks sort of balances that out, but non-damage-dealers don't have that luxury.
Put it another way - endurance management is supposed to suck, so that powers like Accelerate Metabolism, Recovery Aura and Adrenaline Boost are welcome and desired. It's the old pre GND Tanker argument - if Tankers can hit their caps on their own, who needs Defenders? Same deal here. If we can recover more endurance than we need, who needs recovery buffs?