"Dark Armor sucks. It can't tank anything."


abnormal_joe

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLink View Post
Do +4/x8 Cimerorans next!.
Go +4/x8 Vanguard.

Romans are actually easier on my Fire tank than my Dark. Both of their S/L def cap go away fast, but Burn actually helps me catch my breath.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
dark/stone is among the toughest tanks you can make and can out control some trollers too. Endurance though...
Dark/stone is amazing, If I didn't have a Fire/Stone which has too close of the playstyle feel to me like dark armor, I'd definitely rule one.

But I'd have to TOTALLY suggest Dark/SS here. I have one of the most amazing builds for it, with tough and physical perfection/CP, so no end problems, extra resistance from tough, and the consistent large radius knockdown from foot stomp is just perfect mitigation for something like dark armor, much better than dark melee would ever offer. On a tiny fun note, not like EM or stone would do, but jab would occasionally stack with OG on bosses.

And the big clincher, ever see what rage looks like with cloak of darkness? :P super glowy bright puffball of doom!

Likewise I like my DA/EM tank as well, stun heaven, good ST damage, and the glowy pom poms of doom when in cloak of darkness mode is just very sweet as well lol.


Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental

Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration

Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
That takes inspirations.



Again, if it's so easy, let's see you do it.
I'm the guy with the Blaster that tanked a fully buffed Lord Recluse... Remember that convo? lol


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLink View Post
I'm the guy with the Blaster that tanked a fully buffed Lord Recluse... Remember that convo? lol
I do.

Let's see it done with +4/x8 carnies and malta without inspirations like I did.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I do.

Let's see it done with +4/x8 carnies and malta without inspirations like I did.
I pulled some IO's out of the character for my scrapper, but I'll still give it a shot. =p

Update: Ouch... He's down to 33.5% Ranged Defense now. >_>


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I do.

Let's see it done with +4/x8 carnies and malta without inspirations like I did.
But if that's the only challenge... Here's my scrapper... I also fought multiple groups of each faction. =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_maCHXqEsU

Forgive the periodically low FPS, low graphics settings, and stupid mistakes. Currently having problems with my laptop and was watching my component temps on another screen. >_>


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLink View Post
But if that's the only challenge... Here's my scrapper... I also fought multiple groups of each faction. =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_maCHXqEsU

Forgive the periodically low FPS, low graphics settings, and stupid mistakes. Currently having problems with my laptop and was watching my component temps on another screen. >_>
I noticed you used Siphon Life quite a bit in that video and I don't blame you. However, the OP's Dark/Fire Tank did not have that type of mitigation in his secondary. I would wager that if you chose to not use Siphon Life (which is kinda silly) then you might have been in a lot more trouble.

Overall, both characters are very strong and nicely built.


 

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Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
I noticed you used Siphon Life quite a bit in that video and I don't blame you. However, the OP's Dark/Fire Tank did not have that type of mitigation in his secondary. I would wager that if you chose to not use Siphon Life (which is kinda silly) then you might have been in a lot more trouble.

Overall, both characters are very strong and nicely built.
Right, siphon life is part of my ST attack chain... He also used Dark Regen... which is a more powerful and PBAOE version of Siphon Life, lol. My scrapper having to use his self heal compared to a tank having to use his self heal on the same groups should say something. =p If the challenge is to make a dark/fire tank exactly like his, **** that... what's the point? Ill do it in mids, but I won't waste my time and inf on that.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLink View Post
Right, siphon life is part of my ST attack chain... He also used Dark Regen... which is a more powerful and PBAOE version of Siphon Life, lol. My scrapper having to use his self heal compared to a tank having to use his self heal on the same groups should say something. =p If the challenge is to make a dark/fire tank exactly like his, **** that... what's the point? Ill do it in mids, but I won't waste my time and inf on that.
You missed my point. Dark Regen is part of his armor set whereas Siphon Life is part of your attack set. The OP did not use any mitigation from his attack set to help increase his survivability. You did.

It was just an observation or nitpick if you will. I still think soloing those mobs at +4/x8 is awesome no matter the AT and powersets used.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
You missed my point. Dark Regen is part of his armor set whereas Siphon Life is part of your attack set. The OP did not use any mitigation from his attack set to help increase his survivability. You did.

It was just an observation or nitpick if you will. I still think soloing those mobs at +4/x8 is awesome no matter the AT and powersets used.
I think it is a nit worth picking. I don't think any of the carny encounters would have been survived without it.

Siphon life is to shields as fault is to a resistance set with a heal they are waiting on. And while part of the attack chain and no one is asking that it not be used, it is worth being aware of.

It generally looked like endurance was a major bottleneck on the dm/shield. That time it crashed and health went orange could just have easily had a sad ending.

But wow is shield charge ever ridiculously good on a scrapper. I'm gonna fire up my bs/shield and go destroy some spawns now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLink View Post
But if that's the only challenge... Here's my scrapper... I also fought multiple groups of each faction. =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_maCHXqEsU

Forgive the periodically low FPS, low graphics settings, and stupid mistakes. Currently having problems with my laptop and was watching my component temps on another screen. >_>
Couldn't watch it until now, but that's ok, Clouded pretty much said what I would have.

I survived solely on the merits of dark armor and IOs, whereas you leveraged shields, IOs, and leaned on your attacks as a crutch. Not only did shields receive the heal, but I saw your endurance bottoming out pretty damn fast. Without dark consumption, you'd have eaten dirt.

That said, it was still awesome.

I think I need to reiterate what the point of my thread was, and what it wasn't. I was never here to say "Look how awesome Dark Armor is" or "Look how awesome I can play."

Someone told me "Dark Armor sucks. It can't tank anything." This is my response.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
You missed my point. Dark Regen is part of his armor set whereas Siphon Life is part of your attack set. The OP did not use any mitigation from his attack set to help increase his survivability. You did.
Okay, I'll take that... IF he can't use his secondary to attack and/or kill mobs. Death is the ultimate debuff.

Quote:
I think it is a nit worth picking. I don't think any of the carny encounters would have been survived without it.

It generally looked like endurance was a major bottleneck on the dm/shield. That time it crashed and health went orange could just have easily had a sad ending.
Yeah, I mentioned that in my original post with the video. I was watching another screen and not paying attention to my end use. =p BUT... I did go from 0 to full end, and have enough time to retoggle. Thus, showing the power of IOs... Which in my opinion, is the topic of discussion here. See (A) below.

Quote:
Couldn't watch it until now, but that's ok, Clouded pretty much said what I would have.

I survived solely on the merits of dark armor and IOs, whereas you leveraged shields, IOs, and leaned on your attacks as a crutch. Not only did shields receive the heal, but I saw your endurance bottoming out pretty damn fast. Without dark consumption, you'd have eaten dirt.

That said, it was still awesome.

I think I need to reiterate what the point of my thread was, and what it wasn't. I was never here to say "Look how awesome Dark Armor is" or "Look how awesome I can play."

Someone told me "Dark Armor sucks. It can't tank anything." This is my response.
Once again, I'll take those points, if you fulfill the same requirements yourself. I dare to you test your survivability without using your secondary.

(A) My point, is that none of these feats would be possible without IOs. Forgive the crude analogy, but lets look at this as apples to applesauce.

Person 1: Applesauce is so much better than just apples!
Person 2: No kidding... That's because there's extra stuff in applesauce to make it better than just apples.

Now, replace and try it again.

Person 1: DA with IOs is so much better than just DA!
Person 2: No kidding... That's because there's extra stuff in the DA with IOs to make it better than just DA.

Both videos show the power of IOs... not their individual sets. That's the point I'm getting at.

My challenge to you: If you honestly think DA doesn't suck, copy the char to the test server and frankenslot for identical Enh values. No IO bonuses. Then hit the record button and give it another go.


 

Posted

To be fair the OP did demonstrate what amounts to using no secondary. You would have a point if he was rapidly defeating things like your dm/shield was, but through most of the clip nothing starts dying until well into the battle.

If you want a clip of him just standing there getting beat on I'm reasonably confident he could provide it, but there is no purpose as it was already demonstrated to the same effect.

The difference between these two videos is that Dech's demonstrates what an incredibly well built dark armor set can do regardless of the attack set. Yours demonstrates what an incredibly well built dm/sheild can do and is a display of the synergy between the two sets. Namely the heal and the endurance refill.

If the goalpost is shifting to build synergy then I'd suggest that a DA built to similar spec as Dech's paired with stone melee could probably set fault on auto and leave the game running overnight vs those same mobs.

Don't get me wrong, the toon you showcased was awesome, it was just a different type of demonstration than what the OP did.

And yes you did recovery from the end crash well. It was fortunate that dark consumption lit up at that exact moment.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLink View Post
Okay, I'll take that... IF he can't use his secondary to attack and/or kill mobs. Death is the ultimate debuff.



Yeah, I mentioned that in my original post with the video. I was watching another screen and not paying attention to my end use. =p BUT... I did go from 0 to full end, and have enough time to retoggle. Thus, showing the power of IOs... Which in my opinion, is the topic of discussion here. See (A) below.



Once again, I'll take those points, if you fulfill the same requirements yourself. I dare to you test your survivability without using your secondary.

(A) My point, is that none of these feats would be possible without IOs. Forgive the crude analogy, but lets look at this as apples to applesauce.

Person 1: Applesauce is so much better than just apples!
Person 2: No kidding... That's because there's extra stuff in applesauce to make it better than just apples.

Now, replace and try it again.

Person 1: DA with IOs is so much better than just DA!
Person 2: No kidding... That's because there's extra stuff in the DA with IOs to make it better than just DA.

Both videos show the power of IOs... not their individual sets. That's the point I'm getting at.

My challenge to you: If you honestly think DA doesn't suck, copy the char to the test server and frankenslot for identical Enh values. No IO bonuses. Then hit the record button and give it another go.
Here's where the logic of this breaks down: it assumes that all power types are improved equally by IOs, a clearly false assumption. A strong argument can be made that DA is improved more by IO sets than almost any other tanker primary.


 

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Originally Posted by Windenergy21 View Post
Dark/Mace, very good combo too, better than dark/axe cause of the stacked stuns.
Pfft, stuns. I'll take all the knockdown my Dark/Axe brings to the fight.


They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Starflier View Post
Pfft, stuns. I'll take all the knockdown my Dark/Axe brings to the fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Stuns, Knockdown, tomato, tomahto.
Except what you're both forgetting, Mace had a lot of knockdowns too. But will get more out of its stuns too for things say, being spammed by fire cages.


Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental

Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration

Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server

 

Posted

I still prefer Dark armor/Dark melee. I use Dark melee whenever I can justify it for a concept (I only build thematic toons.) Dark Melee has an incredible synergy with Dark Armor. I think of Dark Armor as a heal based tank, rather than a resist or defense based one. That little attack heal sure helps. Also the PbAoE attack that refills the blue is a nice breath of fresh air. Also, according to the scrapper boards Dark melee has incredible damage dealing potential, both at low recharge and high recharge.

But this is a post about Dark Armor. My Dark/Dark tank is now at 33. I have shelved it for a few days as I alt onto some scrappers, but am happy with the build. I have two -KB I/Os in it, but I need one more. The last AV I fought (KHTF) was knocking me once in awhile. Other than that all SOs, and feeling strong. Although, like a regen scrapper, watching the timing of the heal is real important.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
That takes inspirations.



Again, if it's so easy, let's see you do it.
My Stone has no problem, Shield and WP should be able to do it as well.


 

Posted

Hey, thought I'd chime in.

I'm a fan of Dark Armor on any AT it is available on (yes, even Stalkers, though only slightly less so than others).

TL;DR version: DA takes effort, skill and patience. It does just fine solo, teamed and on Task Forces (presuming there will be buffs).
If you spend the time to learn it, it does well. If you spend money, it can do some pretty crazy things.

Long version:

Dark Armor gives you the tools to be very, very unique with your character. You can stack fears. You can stack stuns. You can stack resistance OR defense or BOTH. You can stack heals. You get a self-resurrection that gives you complete safety in PvE short of AV/EB. It also gives the most resistance of any tank sets to more exotic damage and mez types: Toxic, Psionic, Negative, Endurance Drain, Fear and Confusion. It even provides +Perception, so pesky Widows are a joke.

On to some more serious business:

DA is awesome without IO bonuses. With Tough/Weave/Cloak of Darkness/CJ and a couple one-slot wonder IOs, you can be pretty dang hard to take down even without agonizing over slotting and or using a character planner.

On a Tank, if you take the above powers on top of your own toggles, you wind up with the following:

70% S/L res
33% Energy/Toxic res
48% Fire/Cold res
65% Negative res
80%+ Psi res
19% defense to Melee/Range/AoE (via Weave/CoD/CJ)

Very respectable, and you still haven't touched IO sets/bonuses.

The four holes of Dark Armor:

1. Lack of KB protection (easily solvable)
2. High endurance costs (easily solvable)
3. Weakness to -Recharge. (easily solvable)
4. Low Energy resistance (not so much of an issue unless fighting heavy hitting mobs like Neuron, Antimatter, Nightstar, PPPs)

Solution:

1. Karma or Steadfast KB protection IO (easy to pick up for between 3-20 mill, almost anyone can make this by level 20-25 tops).

2. Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance in Stamina (or Physical Perfection, or one in BOTH if you prefer), Theft of Essence: Chance for +Endurance in Dark Regeneration, Miracle: +Recovery and Numina +Recovery/Regeneration in Health.

Note: the only ABSOLUTELY necessary one of these is Performance Shifter, it is very easy to get and by far the cheapest (125 merits). The other procs are useful, but not required to maintain decent endurance recovery. If you DO manage to get them, your life will become very easy. Slot for endurance reduction in each attack. If you can afford to frankenslot Dam/Acc/End ios, then do so. It helps immensely.

3. Hasten, Recharge bonuses and Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge.

Hasten I only have for times where I am under heavy fire from -recharge effects (Arachnos, Carnies, Malta, Council). You can pick up about 20-30% global recharge rather cheaply by using Stupefy in OG, Crushing Impact or even Taunt sets (which are incredibly inexpensive and VERY nice).

4. This is the toughest hole to fill for a Dark Armor (in my opinion). I have never had trouble with Clockwork, Rikti, Freakshow, Carnies or Praetorian minions who use EM.
My biggest challenges are AVs (and rarely PPPs). Neuron, Marauder, Synapse and the like will rip you apart, sadly. The only real way to fix this is to focus on +Energy Defense bonuses. I decided, however, that with so few mobs, and very slight chance to meet up with them while solo, that I did not need to do this personally.

Player skill will easily make or break this set. If you can solve these issues and practice, customize, and make it your own, you will end up with a very powerful character. On its own, it can be good. With a few IOs, it becomes awesome. I have never gone all-out towards putting sets on a character, but I will with this one. I imagine it will be incredible once I am done, and I can't wait.

I've had so much fun working towards 50 thus far, but its only just beginning.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithos_Aurion View Post

3. Hasten, Recharge bonuses and Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge.

Hasten I only have for times where I am under heavy fire from -recharge effects (Arachnos, Carnies, Malta, Council). You can pick up about 20-30% global recharge rather cheaply by using Stupefy in OG, Crushing Impact or even Taunt sets (which are incredibly inexpensive and VERY nice).

Don't forget the Winter's Gift: 20% Slow Resistance.

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Winter...ce_%2820%25%29


 

Posted

I cant belive people are still replying to this post.

Its not based on any reality and its retarded.