"Dark Armor sucks. It can't tank anything."


abnormal_joe

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
Ice is a set I know very well and like with 3 50s and another in the high 30s.

Ice is nowhere close to softcapped just on SOs unless you have maxed out EA (and in usual play, if you're taking on an AV with team mates, you won't get to refresh EA with >1 target). I usually take the medicine pool on my /SRs and rarely get interrupted (2 interrupts slotted). The advantage ice does have is not the heal but the +HP that goes with it (and the -damage aura, but this is a lot less useful v +lots mobs).

My /SR scrappers are much more survivable than my ice tanks against heavy defence debuffing. Ice's heal is on a long enough recharge that it will save you once, but not on an ongoing basis, you will very rarely get to use it twice in the same fight with SOs.
There is a way to do it. It's ugly, but it can be done.

As far as heavy defense debuffing goes, between Ice's slows, and mitigation from my secondary, never had an issue.

Had a few mins, here's an ice build on SO's softcapped to s/l/e/n

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (3) Defense Buff
  • (3) Defense Buff
  • (11) Endurance Reduction
  • (25) Endurance Reduction
Level 1: Frozen Fists
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (13) Damage Increase
  • (13) Damage Increase
  • (33) Endurance Reduction
Level 2: Chilling Embrace
  • (A) Slow
  • (5) Slow
  • (5) Endurance Reduction
  • (34) Endurance Reduction
Level 4: Hoarfrost
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (9) Recharge Reduction
  • (9) Recharge Reduction
  • (11) Healing
Level 6: Combat Jumping
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (7) Defense Buff
  • (7) Defense Buff
  • (43) Endurance Reduction
Level 8: Boxing
  • (A) Empty
Level 10: Wet Ice
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 12: Swift
  • (A) Empty
Level 14: Tough
  • (A) Resist Damage
  • (15) Resist Damage
  • (15) Resist Damage
  • (40) Endurance Reduction
  • (50) Endurance Reduction
Level 16: Icicles
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
  • (17) Endurance Reduction
  • (17) Accuracy
  • (25) Damage Increase
Level 18: Health
  • (A) Healing
  • (19) Healing
  • (19) Healing
Level 20: Stamina
  • (A) Endurance Modification
  • (21) Endurance Modification
  • (21) Endurance Modification
  • (50) Endurance Modification
Level 22: Weave
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (23) Defense Buff
  • (23) Defense Buff
  • (34) Endurance Reduction
  • (46) Endurance Reduction
Level 24: Glacial Armor
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (27) Defense Buff
  • (27) Defense Buff
  • (34) Endurance Reduction
  • (46) Endurance Reduction
Level 26: Maneuvers
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (31) Defense Buff
  • (31) Defense Buff
  • (40) Endurance Reduction
  • (43) Endurance Reduction
Level 28: Energy Absorption
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (29) Defense Buff
  • (29) Defense Buff
  • (31) Recharge Reduction
Level 30: Ice Patch
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 32: Freezing Touch
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (33) Damage Increase
  • (33) Damage Increase
  • (37) Damage Increase
  • (37) Endurance Reduction
Level 35: Greater Ice Sword
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (36) Damage Increase
  • (36) Damage Increase
  • (36) Endurance Reduction
  • (37) Recharge Reduction
Level 38: Frozen Aura
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (39) Damage Increase
  • (39) Damage Increase
  • (39) Endurance Reduction
  • (40) Recharge Reduction
Level 41: Block of Ice
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (42) Recharge Reduction
  • (42) Hold Duration
  • (42) Hold Duration
  • (43) Endurance Reduction
Level 44: Frost
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (45) Damage Increase
  • (45) Damage Increase
  • (45) Damage Increase
  • (46) Endurance Reduction
Level 47: Shiver
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (48) Slow
  • (48) Slow
  • (48) Endurance Reduction
Level 49: Hibernate
  • (A) Endurance Modification
  • (50) Healing
------------
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 6: Ninja Run



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Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.

 

Posted

You're right, that's ugly to unplayable as you have to put all your slots into powers that you don't want to put them into. Most attacks grossly underslotted, recharge in EA underslotted etc. This actually technically fails to be softcapped as it needs EA which fails to be perma by the length of the animation, but that's a nitpick and easily fixed.

Contrast with a /SR at tank values.

Toggle: 13.875 scrapper, x4/3 to convert to tank, +56% enhancement = 28.86
Passive: (1 slot): 5.625 scrapper x4/3, +20% enhancement = 9
Weave: Tanker value 5%, +56% enhancement = 7.8

So that's capped with minimal slotting and not even needing CJ, let alone maneuvers, meaning you can actually slot your attacks properly, and take the pool powers you want (like medicine and possibly hasten). It would also mean in an IO build, where you wouldn't take maneuvers, you could go all out for offensive bonuses, without needing to bolster your defences. On an ice tank you need to be well over 45% because of the lack of DDR, on a /SR you don't.

Have you tried tanking antimatter's blue clocks on an ice tank without buffs ? It can be done if you corner pull every mob, but otherwise they will stay at range and your defence will cascade fail every group unless you're IOd up and have like 60% def. I can handle the damage relatively comfortably on a /SR scrapper due to the much better DDR.


It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
Have you tried tanking antimatter's blue clocks on an ice tank without buffs ?
Good lord do those things hurt my DA tank. The debuffs hurt, but it's more the fact that I have only 30% resist to the pure energy damage. I haven't ever tried them on +4, but I've tanked them. It's not easy, I eat purples like candy, but it can be done.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

My apologies for not reading the whole thread, but one of my problems with dark is that it has a power that automatically removes health from you encouraging the spamming of a heal that takes a third of your endurance bar to use, barring enhancements.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

The amount of self-damage done by Oppressive Gloom is trivial, especially for Tankers. Actually, one of the reasons for it hurting less is because it uses the AT damage scale.

Poor Tankers can't even damage themselves


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godpants View Post
The amount of self-damage done by Oppressive Gloom is trivial, especially for Tankers. Actually, one of the reasons for it hurting less is because it uses the AT damage scale.

Poor Tankers can't even damage themselves
Well I didn't mention Tankers, but you are correct there. I was just speaking in general.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Dark Armor doesn't suck, I just hate it. I played a Fire/Dark scrapper to 44 before I realized just how much I hated the set, always out of endurance, squishy the moment anything resists my mezzes. The only way I could imagine it being really playable would be to match it with Dark Melee (or maybe electric) but then I hate Dark Melee even more.

So into the trash heap my scrapper goes....goodbye Void Star, it was fun (Edit: No not really) but I've found a new love in Spines/Electric.


"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
My apologies for not reading the whole thread, but one of my problems with dark is that it has a power that automatically removes health from you encouraging the spamming of a heal that takes a third of your endurance bar to use, barring enhancements.
As said by somebody else, the self damage is trivial and you save yourself way more damage with the stun in OG. The heal only takes 1/3 of your end bar if you fail to slot it for end reduction (which is easy to do as you don't need to slot it for heal much if at all).

Dark armor sucks to some extent on SOs, but with IOs it can be a really nice set. The theft of essence proc was made for dark's heal for example, meaning that in a crowd, it usually costs me little end if any.


It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba

 

Posted

With the Theft of Essence +end you can sometimes get more end back then you've used. I know I have more often then I could have hoped.


Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
With the Theft of Essence +end you can sometimes get more end back then you've used. I know I have more often then I could have hoped.
I know there's times that I've seen Dark Regen fill both of my bars. It doesn't happen anywhere in my video, but there is a spot while fighting the Carnies that I get back more than I spent.





Also, I've answered a ton of PMs lately requesting my build, so I'll just post it.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.703
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Soulburn Sands: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(3), ImpArm-ResDam:40(3), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(25), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(33)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(17)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:43(37)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(23)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam:40(23)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:40(A), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), Nictus-Acc/Heal:40(9), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(11), Theft-Heal/Rchg:30(11), Theft-+End%:30(13)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 12: Cloak of Darkness -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:40(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(19), LkGmblr-Def:40(21), LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(21)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:40(36)
Level 16: Death Shroud -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Dmg:30(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(29), Erad-Acc/Rchg:30(29), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:40(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(31)
Level 18: Combustion -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(34), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx:40(39), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg:40(39), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg:40(50)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(27)
Level 22: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:43(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(48), KntkC'bat-Knock%:35(48)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), RctvArm-ResDam:40(33), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(45)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx:40(37), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg:40(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg:40(43)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:40(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34), LkGmblr-Def:40(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(46)
Level 32: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-ResKB:10(A), Zephyr-Travel:30(48)
Level 35: Incinerate -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:43(42)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:43(43)
Level 41: Salt Crystals -- LgcRps-Acc/EndRdx:35(A), LgcRps-Acc/Sleep/Rchg:35(45), LgcRps-EndRdx/Sleep:35(45), LgcRps-Acc/Rchg:35(46)
Level 44: Fossilize -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold:30(A), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(46)
Level 47: Recall Friend -- Zephyr-ResKB:10(A)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg:30(50), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 0: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 27.4% Defense(Smashing)
  • 27.4% Defense(Lethal)
  • 3% Defense(Fire)
  • 3% Defense(Cold)
  • 26.8% Defense(Energy)
  • 26.8% Defense(Negative)
  • 4.88% Defense(Psionic)
  • 15.2% Defense(Melee)
  • 15.8% Defense(Ranged)
  • 3% Defense(AoE)
  • 11.3% Max End
  • 15% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 4% Enhancement(Sleep)
  • 260 HP (13.9%) HitPoints
  • Knockback (Mag -12)
  • Knockup (Mag -12)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 17.1%
  • 6% (0.1 End/sec) Recovery
  • 40% (3.13 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 3% Resistance(Psionic)




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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Hey Dechs, one thing I'd suggest for your build is to swap the CI triples (Acc/Dmg/End) for Makos quads (Acc/Dmg/End/Rech). You'd lose ~2.5% enhancement in those three categories, but gain 17.3% recharge as compensation. More than worth it, imo.

Oh, and congrats on the MSTF!


 

Posted

I just need to look at figures to not doubt something, but still people like you with less of an altitis than everyone else "I'd imagine" but with a passion for ya tank which doesn't need to be imagined is all good. Your proving something to the unbelievers.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
Hey Dechs, one thing I'd suggest for your build is to swap the CI triples (Acc/Dmg/End) for Makos quads (Acc/Dmg/End/Rech). You'd lose ~2.5% enhancement in those three categories, but gain 17.3% recharge as compensation. More than worth it, imo.
The difference is less than that because I can bump the level of the Mako quad to 50. The reason I stuck with a level 43 triple was for exemplaring (enhancement values under 20% don't start being deminished until level 21).

Thanks though, that was a good catch. Not sure how I missed it.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
Hey Dechs, one thing I'd suggest for your build is to swap the CI triples (Acc/Dmg/End) for Makos quads (Acc/Dmg/End/Rech). You'd lose ~2.5% enhancement in those three categories, but gain 17.3% recharge as compensation. More than worth it, imo.

Oh, and congrats on the MSTF!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
The difference is less than that because I can bump the level of the Mako quad to 50. The reason I stuck with a level 43 triple was for exemplaring (enhancement values under 20% don't start being deminished until level 21).

Thanks though, that was a good catch. Not sure how I missed it.
Little update on this change: Yes, it's better enhancement values overall, but I increased recharge without increasing endurance reduction. Now, if I go full bore, I consume more endurance than I recover.

Point is, without extra buffs or inspirations, I need to be careful of my endurance bar a little more now. With outside recovery buffs or inspiration usage, I am now a better performing tank with respect to damage output.

Lesson learned that more enhancement isn't always unilaterally better.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Little update on this change: Yes, it's better enhancement values overall, but I increased recharge without increasing endurance reduction. Now, if I go full bore, I consume more endurance than I recover.

Point is, without extra buffs or inspirations, I need to be careful of my endurance bar a little more now. With outside recovery buffs or inspiration usage, I am now a better performing tank with respect to damage output.

Lesson learned that more enhancement isn't always unilaterally better.
That's one way to think about. On the other hand, you don't need to run full bore all the time, either. If you're aware that you can outstrip your recovery (and don't want to use insps, etc), then you don't need to open up all the way. If you want/need that some extra oomf, it's nice to have in reserve.

Not to mention that some powers have greater DPE than others. Incinerate, for example, is the highest DPE attack you have access to. Maximizing its usage vs other attacks would save you endurance (as long as you're not wasting the dot with followup attacks, of course).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
If you're aware that you can outstrip your recovery (and don't want to use insps, etc), then you don't need to open up all the way. If you want/need that some extra oomf, it's nice to have in reserve.
I was trying to get this across. I have more potential now than I did before, but I have to be more attentive.

Once recovery buffs are added into it, I'm far and away better off now.

The pros outweigh the cons in this case, at any rate.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godpants View Post
The amount of self-damage done by Oppressive Gloom is trivial, especially for Tankers. Actually, one of the reasons for it hurting less is because it uses the AT damage scale.

Poor Tankers can't even damage themselves
I don't even notice it on a Defender...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
I don't even notice [the damage from Oppressive Gloom] on a Defender...
I wonder if you could slot the damage/mez HO's into OG, and if so, would it increase the self damage?

I'm forever looking for easier ways to get the damage taken badges.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I wonder if you could slot the damage/mez HO's into OG, and if so, would it increase the self damage?

I'm forever looking for easier ways to get the damage taken badges.
Terra Volta reactor AFK in rest mode ?


English isn't my birth language, so don't blame me if I do some mistakes. thank you !

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I'm forever looking for easier ways to get the damage taken badges.
Use Ouro and find an enemy that does a lot of damage to you without killing you (while in Rest). The I don't know your build, but it may be beneficial to turn off Enhancements for this. Any +Max HP bonuses generally make it harder to farm for damage. Just leave it on overnight. I used 2 DE Boulders set to +1 on my Brute (with "Enhancements Do Nothing" enabled). Might be a good starting point for ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaad View Post
Terra Volta reactor AFK in rest mode ?
Unfortunately, I don't think the reactor will do enough damage to actually help with the badge. Only HP below your Base HP count toward the badge.


 

Posted

Hey guys, check this out.



I figured it would be fun to tell the team to focus on Reichsman while I held the other four AVs. Since Reichsman doesn't use his AoE Stun Nuke if his target is out of range, keeping him immobilized, while holding aggro keeps the team perfectly safe.

It was a fun way to approach Reichsman for sure.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Your only MoSTF wouldn't happen to be this one.

To be frank, that was hella fun.


50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec