City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

"Dark Armor sucks. It can't tank anything."

abnormal_joe

By abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-04-11 16:11 in Tankers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I already had my MoSTF badge when we did that.
I was on one with Dech's on my scrapper. I remember sending a tell to him letting him know I was a scrapper. After a long pause, I followed up with another tell, letting him know I didn't suck.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhade View Post
I was on one with Dech's on my scrapper. I remember sending a tell to him letting him know I was a scrapper. After a long pause, I followed up with another tell, letting him know I didn't suck.
He wasn't lying. In fact, he plays his DA scrapper very well.* I'd like to mention though, that the long pause was due to drowning in tells.




*The fact that he plays dark armor may have introduced bias into my statement.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I already had my MoSTF badge when we did that.
Person 1: Dark Armor Tanker
Person 2: Illusion/Empathy Controller
Person 3: Illusion/Radiation Controller
Person 4: A Kin Defender
Person 5: Storm/Dark Defender
Person 6: Radiation/Sonic Defender
Person 7: A Dark Defender
Person 8: Force Field/Dark Defender

2 illusions would of been more than enough to keep AVs occupied then there are five other defenders. I am glad to hear this wasn't the team you got the badge with as I can say that it's possible for a Dark tanker to do it without any controllers or defenders.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
I am glad to hear this wasn't the team you got the badge with as I can say that it's possible for a Dark tanker to do it without any controllers or defenders.
For the one I earned the badge on, the total sum of all buffs on me were Speed Boost, and ID during the Ghost Widow fight. I also had a Triage beacon nearby while fighting Lord Recluse.

I had a lot of defenders on that team, but they were all sorts of debuffs which I asked to be applied to the towers and not Recluse.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Yeah by taking out the towers quick, you reduce the amount of time you spend with LR virtually alone, still a win win. I've gone up possibly passed 20 mins alone with LR on a scrapper for scrappers. As much as it served as a point that controllers, defenders and tankers aren't a necessity it showed the usefulness of those 3 ATs, better with than without is the general answer I would give when talking about support ATs.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Since Reichsman doesn't use his AoE Stun Nuke if his target is out of range, keeping him immobilized, while holding aggro keeps the team perfectly safe.

It was a fun way to approach Reichsman for sure.
Yeah that nuke is a pain in the bum to some, 50ft pbaoe otomh, AVs can be compelled to hit the tanker and no one else and so be put in a situation where they can only use certain attacks which are the ones that can actually hit the tanker. Pays to know all AVs and their attacks and so if needed you can damage mitigate through limiting what attacks they can use. Even just to be flexible with what team make ups you can get the job done with.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

I agree with the thread title, Dark Armor does suck and it cannot tank ANYTHING. NONE.

Edit: And I really do mean NOTHING when I said NONE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
I agree with the thread title, Dark Armor does suck and it cannot tank ANYTHING. NONE.

Edit: And I really do mean NOTHING when I said NONE.

Hmmm.....

Someone's not paying attention.

Properly built, especially using IO's, any tank can tank most content.

Including Dark.

Sometimes that means additional buffs from team mates, sometimes that includes inspies.

Sorry you feel the need to say otherwise.

Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

Like I've said in another post:


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
I agree, as much as people try to sugar coat this matter, Dark Armor blows.

Anyone that actually made Dark Armor decently good to use can probably put the same time/effort into ANOTHER build and get way better results than they did with Dark Armor.

 

Posted

Then I dare you to make a tank that can do what I've done with my Dark Armor tank.

Solo a group of +4/x8 malta and carnies without bosses, without temps, insps, accolades.

Herd six DE monsters without any buffs from teammates.

Do the RWZ challenge standing next to a pylon.

Hold the aggro of Reichsman and his four AVs without any buffs from teammates.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Then I dare you to make a tank that can do what I've done with my Dark Armor tank.

Beat a group of +4/x8 malta and carnies without bosses.

Herd six DE monsters without any buffs from teammates.

Do the RWZ challenge standing next to a pylon.

Hold the aggro of Reichsman and his four AVs without any buffs from teammates.
I will, just tell me how much influence you used, in total, to pimp out your Tank...then send me that amount of influence in game so I can buy IO's for my Tank because he's sitting on SO's.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
I will, just tell me how much influence you used, in total, to pimp out your Tank...then send me that amount of influence in game so I can buy IO's for my Tank because he's sitting on SO's.
Three hundred million. That's pocket change if you know what you're doing.

It's asinine to ask for the inf to do it yourself. Earn it.

Don't limit yourself to my budget though. Go all out. I dare you to use any means to make a tank that can do all the things I listed, which is clearly more than the NOTHING you claimed Dark Armor capable of.

Mind you, I did it with Fire Melee, which provides no mitigation of its own. All of my survivability came from Dark Armor.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

There is no absolute need for anyone above the average IQ to pimp out a Dark tanker in order to Mo with it let alone to take point as Main tanker. If I couldn't play something I would get advice. I would read websites as well as look at my build ingame. If not enough then perhaps look at guides to see if someones spotted something useful to know that I haven't yet. Then if failing all that I still wouldn't turn around and say that it couldn't tank.

Different types of tankers have different flexibilities and limitations. Strengths and weaknesses. They may require a different method of play or a different level of support.

My dark/dark brute is older than my dark/dark tanker, it is possible to build a very strong brute that tanks which even after herding manages to defeat mobs solo using the damage aura alone, the slow way which means more time within the mobs. In a way iirc, Brutes are/were better blessed with a higher magnitude fear in cloak of fear. I admit though, that, because dark armour can have near death experiences often when pushed to maximum performance that it can take a mission or two if you have altitis to get into the swing of one again.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
2 illusions would of been more than enough to keep AVs occupied then there are five other defenders. I am glad to hear this wasn't the team you got the badge with as I can say that it's possible for a Dark tanker to do it without any controllers or defenders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Yeah by taking out the towers quick, you reduce the amount of time you spend with LR virtually alone, still a win win. I've gone up possibly passed 20 mins alone with LR on a scrapper for scrappers. As much as it served as a point that controllers, defenders and tankers aren't a necessity it showed the usefulness of those 3 ATs, better with than without is the general answer I would give when talking about support ATs.
You confuse me sometimes, New Dawn. I don't think the tactic you're describing is a very useful tool to base the strength of a set. After all, you wouldn't even be using Dark Armor (or any Tanker primary) at that point... just one power from a Tanker secondary and one pool power.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Three hundred million. That's pocket change if you know what you're doing.

It's asinine to ask for the inf to do it yourself. Earn it.

Don't limit yourself to my budget though. Go all out. I dare you to use any means to make a tank that can do all the things I listed, which is clearly more than the NOTHING you claimed Dark Armor capable of.

Mind you, I did it with Fire Melee, which provides no mitigation of its own. All of my survivability came from Dark Armor.
Doing all that is really nothing though. My Elec Armor have done the first 3 things you've posted(able to do it with Bosses in the group as well), all with a budget of 130 mil, it's really not that hard. I haven't tried the 4th thing you've listed on your list but I'm sure it's really no big deal.

Also, no Influence, NO DEAL!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
Doing all that is really nothing though. My Elec Armor have done the first 3 things you've posted(able to do it with Bosses in the group as well), all with a budget of 130 mil, it's really not that hard. I haven't tried the 4th thing you've listed on your list but I'm sure it's really no big deal.

Also, no Influence, NO DEAL!
You'll have to forgive me for not believing a damn thing you say here. It was a clever attempt to back out of a challenge, though.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarrate View Post
You confuse me sometimes, New Dawn. I don't think the tactic you're describing is a very useful tool to base the strength of a set. After all, you wouldn't even be using Dark Armor (or any Tanker primary) at that point... just one power from a Tanker secondary and one pool power.
You have to get through the entire STF, you can't get through it on one secondary and one power pool alone. Infact I don't think the tactic which your thinking of can be used in every instance versus all the AVs due to the maps (I was opposed to the changes that made this tactic achieveable at the time the change was on test btw, I don't need it and it dumbs the game down). As a scrapper its a good option as there is no point denting LR while he can't be dented, your threat has to be higher than all others but then there can be a problem with AI. It's like anything ingame, upto people what they want to do, how they want to play. Saving the World is a type of mission that the words "by any means possible" shouldn't have to be said, but with Mo's I like to think people do their own thing.

The posts weren't connected in anyway. It's not like I have one thing in my head.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
You have to get through the entire STF, you can't get through it on one secondary and one power pool alone. Infact I don't think the tactic which your thinking of can be used in every instance versus all the AVs due to the maps (I was opposed to the changes that made this tactic achieveable at the time the change was on test btw, I don't need it and it dumbs the game down). As a scrapper its a good option as there is no point denting LR while he can't be dented, your threat has to be higher than all others but then there can be a problem with AI. It's like anything ingame, upto people what they want to do, how they want to play. Saving the World is a type of mission that the words "by any means possible" shouldn't have to be said, but with Mo's I like to think people do their own thing.

The posts weren't connected in anyway. It's not like I have one thing in my head.
Ahah, I misunderstood then. Sorry 'bout that.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
You'll have to forgive me for not believing a damn thing you say here. It was a clever attempt to back out of a challenge, though.
It's not really a challenge when my Elec Armor Tank can do all that you've stated, and then some. Also, if you're not going to believe a thing I say, I don't see how I can prove to you that I have done all those things though. I'm obviously not going to take all that time to redo everything I've done AND record them AND upload them to YouTube just so you can say "oh..I guess Dark Armor does suck."

However, from a logical point of view, I can attempt to tell you how it can be done.

> Electric Armor has End-drain resistance, that means I don't have a problem with any mobs that can drain my endurance.

> With my IO'ed out build, I have ~60% resistance across the board.

> I also have 38% defense across the board.

> In addition to that, my total regeneration is a little bit above 500% with Energize on.

> Of course, survivability alone doesn't make you a good Tanker, it's the holding aggro part. I have the actual Taunt power itself. I am Earth Melee Primary so I have Fault and Tremor to hold aggro as well as keep mobs on their back almost 100% of the times. I also have Lightning Field Aura.

It's pretty damn easy to survive.

As an aside, don't listen to these other noobs, I am THE BEST Tanker on CoH period. So good that I've cloned my ElecArmor/EarthMelee Tanker on every single servers.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
It's not really a challenge when my Elec Armor Tank can do all that you've stated, and then some. Also, if you're not going to believe a thing I say, I don't see how I can prove to you that I have done all those things though.
You know, it's always the kids who talk the biggest game that have nothing to show for themselves. Wonder why that is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
> Electric Armor has End-drain resistance, that means I don't have a problem with any mobs that can drain my endurance.

> With my IO'ed out build, I have ~60% resistance across the board.

> I also have 38% defense across the board.

> In addition to that, my total regeneration is a little bit above 500% with Energize on.
Put your numbers in a sheet here. We can compare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
> Of course, survivability alone doesn't make you a good Tanker, it's the holding aggro part. I have the actual Taunt power itself. I am Earth Melee Primary so I have Fault and Tremor to hold aggro as well as keep mobs on their back almost 100% of the times. I also have Lightning Field Aura.
Funny, I have two AoE powers and taunt as well. I managed to hold aggro on four AVs plus Reichsman from range. I agree that all the survivability in the world does not make you a tank. A tank who is the last man standing has failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
As an aside, don't listen to these other noobs, I am THE BEST Tanker on CoH period. So good that I've cloned my ElecArmor/EarthMelee Tanker on every single servers.
I'm going to refer to the first thing I said in this post about children who talk big.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
You know, it's always the kids who talk the biggest game that have nothing to show for themselves. Wonder why that is?



Put your numbers in a sheet here. We can compare.



Funny, I have two AoE powers and taunt as well. I managed to hold aggro on four AVs plus Reichsman from range. I agree that all the survivability in the world does not make you a tank. A tank who is the last man standing has failed.



I'm going to refer to the first thing I said in this post about children who talk big.
I think you're taking this a little bit too personally, buddy. There's no need to call me a kid, in fact, if you're going to call me a kid, you better be well into your 60s.

Anyhow, I'll put my numbers onto that sheet when I have the chance to.

If it makes you feel any better, I'll restate myself again. Of course I've seen your vid on YouTube. Obviously, from that vid, Dark Armor CAN tank. Did you believe me when I said that Dark Armor isn't capable of tanking ANYTHING? The part where I'm NOT trolling you is when I said that there are other primaries out there for Tankers that can do equally well, and possibly even better than Dark Armor with some investments.

 

Posted

Troll or not, you've made claims and I've refuted. Since we're on the internet, the only thing I have to go on to gauge your age is attitude, so I apologize if you're not really a kid.

I agree that many tanks can do equally well in certain scenarios. What I have trouble believing is that there are tanks who can do everything I've done. Everyone has a hole somewhere, but I've managed to plug all of mine. An easy improvement to my build would be to swap for stone melee to add knockdown as yet another layer of mitigation.

The resistance based armors in this game have the most potential because of how easy defense is to get. Multiple layers of mitigation do not improve survivability linearly, the effect is multiplicative. Elec is the only rival Dark has in my eyes. Dark's major advantage is Cloak of Darkness, which provides enough defense to easily softcap more positions/types. I like that Elec has a true godmode power, but I prefer Dark's tier nine. In the event that I do die, anything short of an AV with purple triangles is stunned and my team is still safe.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

EarthMelee huh...

Does scrappers get that too?



Can't believe I just read 10 pages of a tanker thread... there goes 3 hours of work I can't get back...


Yes I'm a slow reader!!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Troll or not, you've made claims and I've refuted. Since we're on the internet, the only thing I have to go on to gauge your age is attitude, so I apologize if you're not really a kid.

I agree that many tanks can do equally well in certain scenarios. What I have trouble believing is that there are tanks who can do everything I've done. Everyone has a hole somewhere, but I've managed to plug all of mine. An easy improvement to my build would be to swap for stone melee to add knockdown as yet another layer of mitigation.

The resistance based armors in this game have the most potential because of how easy defense is to get. Multiple layers of mitigation do not improve survivability linearly, the effect is multiplicative. Elec is the only rival Dark has in my eyes. Dark's major advantage is Cloak of Darkness, which provides enough defense to easily softcap more positions/types. I like that Elec has a true godmode power, but I prefer Dark's tier nine. In the event that I do die, anything short of an AV with purple triangles is stunned and my team is still safe.
Elec Armor would have a hole, until the addition of Energize came along. That 50% self heal and +200% regeneration isn't a joke. I do agree that resistance-based armors are amazing in that it is easy to soft-cap defense, whereas it's extremely difficult or possibly even impossible to cap resistance on a defense-based armor.

WP is also the other amazing Tanker primary I'd say.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
EarthMelee huh...

Does scrappers get that too?
Yes, THEY DO!!