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No I'm not telling you you have to play up a DA tank. My point is, the video better points out the strengths of the defense cap, augmented by DA powers than the strengths of DA's abilities.|
Originally Posted by Psara
You're telling me I have to play up a DA tank just to prove that you don't need IO sets to be effective? Ugh! Seriously dark regen alone can carry DA.
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If you read anything else into this statement, the ideas are wholly yours.
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No. I understood exactly what he was saying. I merely disagree.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I think you missed what he was saying.
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Try the same on a defense capped stone, invulnerability, fire, willpower, or shield tank. Tell me how they do when their endurance bottoms out. Edit: Whoops, stone does have end drain resist in rooted. |
On my namesake, I'm defense capped Inv/SS. I have to be actively careless to bottom out my endurance.
As I've said above, the video doesn't really provide a good demonstration of DA solely on it's own merits.
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Because that strongest heal is super expensive. About |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Why would DA need the weak heal from Siphon Life, when it already has the strongest heal in the game with Dark Regeneration? DR can heal from 1 to full health every 10-15 seconds, depending on slotting and global recharge.
There are other ways to deal with DA's endurance usage through the use of IO's. Slotting for extra endurance and extra recovery help quite a bit. Slotting the Theft of Essence proc in Dark Regen pretty much takes care of DA's single largest endurance drain by itself. |
30ish endurance per use unslotted at least. It use to cost 50 endurance unslotted. Even with 3 end redux in it the power still is a huge endurance hog.
I know because I started my dark/dark scrapper back in ish 4. Couldn't stand it for the most part until around level 24 or so.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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As we know, any well-planned build will have amazing end drain protection and an even more amazing self-heal. Apparently.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No. This video highlights the strengths of a well planned build.
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I did not say 'exclusively highlights,' Hyper. I said 'highlights.' Two of the things that Dark Amour can do and is shown in those videos is walk off end drainers like Carnies and Malta without fear, and when things go badly and they are, in fact, losing attrition fights, reset their health to full from almost nothing. I don't know any other armour set that can do both.
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Fine. It wasn't supposed to anyway. Call it a demonstration of potential. Call it a rebuttal to the comment "Dark Armor Sucks." Because that's all it is.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
As I've said above, the video doesn't really provide a good demonstration of DA solely on it's own merits.
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I've heard enough Dark Armor hate that I decided to put some proof out there.
Call it what you like. You can't deny that Dark Armor has the capability to excel, perhaps more than any other set.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I play a Dark/Dark Tanker.Its only level 18 at the moment due to my art.However its not bad at all at durability and damage.I cant wait for higher levels with it as I have no douts that itll be a juggernaught in the way of Tanking, even before IOs.
If you cant Play Dark Armor, please dont mouth about it or put it down.Its a very good set.
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Then I would merely point out that nothing in the game is designed to be unbeatable by players without IO sets. Though an average DA tank may not be able to take 2-3 large groups completely unsupported, I know a lot of other tanker sets in the same boat. Besides, that's not really the designed role of "tank." We're getting pretty firmly into "farm" territory there.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No I'm not telling you you have to play up a DA tank. My point is, the video better points out the strengths of the defense cap, augmented by DA powers than the strengths of DA's abilities.
If you read anything else into this statement, the ideas are wholly yours. |
As for end use, that's the primary reason I'd pair it with DM. Granted you might go insane first, but Consume most certainly helps. Also, you might want to turn off CoF, at least once you get OG. It's better to have both on yeah, but CoF is high end. You also might want to get your own indentured serv... uh, kinetics defender. That'll take care of it right there >:]
Looked awesome to me, heck I immediately jumped into mids and toyed around with dark armor tanks and brutes.
People that are hating on you probably told others that dark sucks and the crow doesn't taste very good.
I'm sure if you were a dark/ss or some attack set with mitigation they would just claim it was the knockdown at work.
Way to make an underplayed (and under appreciated) set shine, by showing the complete build potential.
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Technically Dark Armor DOES suck. "Siphon Life"? All the dead bodies around you prove it!|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Call it a rebuttal to the comment "Dark Armor Sucks." Because that's all it is.
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Honestly though. The minute someone starts with the *[INSERT POWER OR POWER COMBO HERE] Sucks!*, I just have a natural tendency to stop listening to them. This kind of weak non-argument is usually a great indicator that what few brains they have are most likely dribbling out through their ears at that moment.
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| Call it what you like. You can't deny that Dark Armor has the capability to excel, perhaps more than any other set. |
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*Looks out from his place among the choir*|
Originally Posted by Psara
Then I would merely point out that nothing in the game is designed to be unbeatable by players without IO sets.
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Uhm. Amen?
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I think that's a Dark Melee power... |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Technically Dark Armor DOES suck. "Siphon Life"? All the dead bodies around you prove it!
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
As I've said. Just about any set can be made to perform excellently when built properly. Dark Armor is no exception. As to "more than any other set", I'm not going to start into hyperbole.
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But really, it's not hyperbole because I have a good reason to believe so. I've started with a resistance based set and layered the defense on top. You can't layer resistance on a defensive set. Mitigation on top of mitigation produces incredible results. And nothing has as good of a heal.
Also, I'd like to mention that I have no mitigation in my primary, so there's an argument to be made there. My survival is solely due to the merits of Dark Armor augmented by sets. There is no knockdown, -tohit, or stun to back me up.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I think a post that starts out with insert "SET OF CHOICE" sucks is great. It brings out those who know how to run that set. I had just started a dark/dark tank a few days before our poster set up this thing. Wow, I have really been listening to those that post here, and have learned a lot. Thanks everyone, and thanks to that original hater.
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A quibble, but saying and IO'ed out DA tank is a 100 times more survivable than Granite would be hyberbole. Saying a fully IO'ed out DA tanks is perhaps more survivable than an equally fully IO'ed out Stone, Invul, Elec, Shields, etc tank... is, while debatable, hardly a great exaggeration.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
As I've said. Just about any set can be made to perform excellently when built properly. Dark Armor is no exception. As to "more than any other set", I'm not going to start into hyperbole.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Demonstrably untrue.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You can't layer resistance on a defensive set.
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Various damage sets provide all sorts of typed resistance as set bonuses.
Granted, the bonuses are small, so this is somewhat nit-picky. Still, incorrect notions such as this shouldn't be allowed to propagate.
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Allow me to revise my statement:|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Demonstrably untrue.
Various damage sets provide all sorts of typed resistance as set bonuses. Granted, the bonuses are small, so this is somewhat nit-picky. Still, incorrect notions such as this shouldn't be allowed to propagate. |
You can't layer resistance on a defensive set in any where near the proportions of the reverse.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Hyperbole = Exaggeration|
Originally Posted by dave_p
A quibble, but saying and IO'ed out DA tank is a 100 times more survivable than Granite would be hyberbole.
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| Saying a fully IO'ed out DA tanks is perhaps more survivable than an equally fully IO'ed out Stone, Invul, Elec, Shields, etc tank... is, while debatable, hardly a great exaggeration. |
Note: My calling his statement hyperbolic does NOT mean I think he's incorrect, wrong, lying, etc. It merely means I'm not prepared to delve into an argument to see who is "right".
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Better. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Allow me to revise my statement:
You can't layer resistance on a defensive set in any where near the proportions of the reverse. |
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Originally Posted by Seldom
I'd like to also bring up the fun IO things that you can do with dark armor's unusual control auras:
Cloak of fear: |
Just one thing - another nice thing besides the fear procs, is it has a half-decent to-hit debuff. 5% for a scrapper.
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At a risk of getting too pedantic...
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In practice there usually is, but in this case there was no magnitude to measure, merely a binary statement, and qualified at that. X is perhaps larger (better, tougher) than Y. While some comparative statements can be hyperbole, e.g. I'm a better guitarist than Eddie Van Halen, you'd really have to stretch the meaning of the term to fit what you originally wrote. Really besides the point, so I'll stop here.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Hyperbole = Exaggeration
The definition of hyperbole contains no benchmarks for magnitude. |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Stop raining on the OP's parade Hyper, sheesh.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Stop raining on the OP's parade Hyper, sheesh.
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But...but...how will I PL my postcount?
Buzzkill posts are my specialty!
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Dechs, you know I've seen you in action. Watching your tank go makes me want to not only make a Dark Armor Tanker, but make it a sand concept toon! |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I think you missed what he was saying. Try the same on a defense capped stone, invulnerability, fire, willpower, or shield tank. Tell me how they do when their endurance bottoms out.
Edit: Whoops, stone does have end drain resist in rooted. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Dave has stumbled on the reason I built a Dark Armor tank to begin with. I looked at the set and thought: "Damn, that has potential." It only has two major weaknesses. One is the lack of KB protection, which is easily fixed. The second is the low energy resist (which is fairly common). That was harder to fix, but it's why I worked so hard on the E/N softcap. The things that drop most tankers (such as psi damage and end drain) I can laugh at. As it stands, the only thing I really have to worry about are defense and resistance debuffs (cimerorans and vanguard). Eating purples grant enough pseudo DDR for dealing with the cimerorans though. And this was the second goal of mine. All the survivability in the world does a tank no good if he can't keep the attention of his foes. I disagree with your priorities, though, because dealing AoE damage is an effective way to grab and hold on to aggro. I use taunt, combustion, fire sword circle, and the ancillary salt crystals to great effect. The salt crystals do a surprisingly good job of pissing the mobs off. I think it's the combination of debuff and status effect. It's got a very large area of effect to boot. Two things. One: my build doesn't have a single set over level 40. I like being able to retain my E/N softcap on a Numina TF and sewer trial and my S/L all the way down to Manticore. Two: Procs don't actually care what level you have them. A level fifty +stealth proc in sprint will still give you stealth exemped to level 1. A level 50 damage proc in brawl can still fire at level 1. If the power is available and the proc is in the power, it can fire. |
But...the bolded part here, makes me want to roll up another IOed WP/ tanker (because I really REALLY can't stand Energy Melee anymore due to ET), to show you, they can be built to be just like that.
With just my /WP Scrapper, I can ignore the END Drainers due to high defense, QR, Stamina, and PP all having +END Procs in them.
But yes, your DA tanker is one of the best I've seen.
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The BrandX Collection
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Actualy it isn't that bad anymore. Not even close to how it used to be with just SO. One you have way more recovery with IOs. 2 Generic IO are more powerful the SOs. 3 If you put that proc in it its insanely good, If you in a good size group of mobs it are almost guaranteed to get back a good chunk of end.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Because that strongest heal is super expensive. About
30ish endurance per use unslotted at least. It use to cost 50 endurance unslotted. Even with 3 end redux in it the power still is a huge endurance hog. I know because I started my dark/dark scrapper back in ish 4. Couldn't stand it for the most part until around level 24 or so. |
I have a claws/dark scrapper and she was painful to lvl back in the day but recently, as in after Invention system, She has actualy become quite fun to play. We now have physical perfection + Recovery from sets + a Proc that gives end when you use dark regen.
The only problem with DA is that it needs Sets to do great where as other armors can do fine with SO or Generic IO.
The one problem I have with "Dark" armor is that it's highest resist is Psi instead of Negative?? All the other elemental armors can cap against their element (fire, elec, ice), but for some reason dark can't??? O.o
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.