On characters that aren't quite yours.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-08 24:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
So does that mean when Marvel employees were told by Marvel to make Marvel charecters in CoH for the lawsuit they gave Cryptic the right to use Marvel characters in future promotions?
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Except that, as I understand it, "person" in legal terms means a living person. Once you are dead, you are not defined as a person, but as a corpse or cadaver. A dead person has no legal rights or recourse except by a will or testament that has to have been written while they were alive. Laws regarding corpses are written separately from those written in regards to living persons.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
While it's unlikely that you'll have anything happen for creating zombie Benjamin Franklin, it looks to me like NCSoft is well within their right specified by the EULA to generic you for it. IANAL. |
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
So far as I'm aware the GMs tend to look at things on a case by case basis, and tend to err on the side of protecting their company - a not unreasonable position to take.
We can probably all cite instances where we have see obvious infringements - but I can't think of too many that lasted for very long - and we'll never know what happened to them as the result of petitions.
Thelonious Monk
I have a character named DShan Steelclaw.
As my forum name is Steelclaw I have sent several requests to have this character generic'd as he obviously violates my right to my own intellectual property.
So far nothing has been done.
My mind wanders so often you've probably seen its picture on milk cartons. - Me... the first person version of the third person Steelclaw
Me I always wanted to make a version of The Scarlet Pimpernel in the game.
The Copy right I believe is now out of date it's over 100 years old the play was first done in 1903!
However Many versions of the same character has came out and I am reluctant because I doubt I would pull of the character right. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to the characters I play. Thought I have been thinking of an AE story arc that based on the Scarlet Pimpernel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Pimpernel
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Pretty much what I was thinking too. |
Originally Posted by LISAR
So does that mean when Marvel employees were told by Marvel to make Marvel charecters in CoH for the lawsuit they gave Cryptic the right to use Marvel characters in future promotions?
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An sgmate has a Necro MM zombie Abe Lincoln whose pets are dead presidents (named openly) with matching amusing petsay quotes. "I am not a crook!" *baarf*|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
While it's unlikely that you'll have anything happen for creating zombie Benjamin Franklin, it looks to me like NCSoft is well within their right specified by the EULA to generic you for it. IANAL.
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He doesn't play much anymore but he used to get petitioned all the time. Unsuccessfully.
"He may be arrogant, but he happens to be correct" - Ellis
"The server is full of crazies" - New_Dark_Age
Rainbow Arcana / Diamond D: Legion of Freedom - Virtue
lof.guildportal.com
Most of my characters are heavily based upon or copies of something, but they're so obscure no one would ever really know or care.
For example one character is based on a specific NPC mob from another MMORPG Anarchy Online.
A few characters are based on specific G.I. Joe costumes from a specific year that no one but real hardcore Joe fans would recognize
stuff like that.
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I can think of one instance where that does not seem to be true (only one of the criteria was met), but that is probably because it was back when Cryptic was working on MUO before selling CoH to NCSoft.|
Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
As I recall, there was once something to the effect of a three-point criterion: Appearance, Name, Bio. If, for some reason, you were two out of three for a copyrighted character, you got generic'd.
Now, my memory's a pretty fickle thing, so take that with only half a grain of salt. Also, I seem to recall it being much harder to reverse a generic than it is to prevent one, so I'd err on the side of caution. |
My wife had a character named American Avenger. A female in a red, white, and blue themed costume. Electric/energy blaster. She got generic'd.
Upon researching the name, I found that back in the '40s there was a character named American Avenger (male, different color scheme, no powers even remotely the same) that appeared in *one* comic book. Marvel bought the rights to that character and even mentioned him in a more recent USAgent comic (mentioned, not used).
Apparently, at that point, that's all it took to get the name wiped out. I documented this and sent it to the GM handling the case. We submitted three names that retained the meaning without copying the name, and they were rejected. We tried this three times and all of them were rejected. So we game a set of abbreviations that will look funny to other players, but we still call her character American Avenger.
The *only* similarity between my wife's character and the Marvel-owned character was the name. Period. And it was an extremely obscure character anyway (hence why we had never heard of it). Appearance and powers were completely different and she had not included a bio yet.
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Originally Posted by lionheart_fr
My wife had a character named American Avenger. A female in a red, white, and blue themed costume. Electric/energy blaster. She got generic'd.
Upon researching the name, I found that back in the '40s there was a character named American Avenger (male, different color scheme, no powers even remotely the same) that appeared in *one* comic book. Marvel bought the rights to that character and even mentioned him in a more recent USAgent comic (mentioned, not used). The *only* similarity between my wife's character and the Marvel-owned character was the name. Period. And it was an extremely obscure character anyway (hence why we had never heard of it). Appearance and powers were completely different and she had not included a bio yet. |
Interesting...
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When sonic blast was released, I made a character called the Singing Mikado, who gained superhuman powers after seeing The Mikado 1,000 times. Unfortunately, he also fell under the delusion that he really is the Mikado, and now patrols Paragon City seeking to let the punishment fit the crime. I have a Drosselmeier (from The Nutcracker) character as well. Those characters are unambiguously in the public domain and ought to be okay.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I had a WP/SS tanker called Ralph Rackstraw. I ended up deleting him because I didn't enjoy the powers (and because there is no staw boater available in the editor).
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I'd be more cautious with something like "Thor" (if it were available; see upthread). The GM's, like most people, aren't concerned with how a court would rule on whether a character infringes a trademark or copyright; they're concerned with how likely it is that someone will get the idea to sue after seeing one, since defending a suit successfully is nearly as draining as losing one. It's frustrating, but I can't say I blame them.
"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"
Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers
A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"
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For shame, Mr. Westley, for shame.
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Originally Posted by Westley
Interesting...
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Back in 2004 I rolled a "Dubya" toon. I would run him into +40 mobs and watch him get smeared into the pavement. It made me feel better.
I've seen more than a couple of Obama toons running around.
Here's a question- have the devs ever reversed a Genericing... genericazation... generification... you know what i mean.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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Again? Really?
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Originally Posted by Westley
Interesting...
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Doubtful, devs don't generic nor de-generic players (even though they do hate us all)
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Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Here's a question- have the devs ever reversed a Genericing... genericazation... generification... you know what i mean.
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Hey, she's not the only one allowed to be a broken record. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Again? Really?
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With all that has been said already, it's still very easy to make homage-type characters who are recognizable to the right people without them being outright copies. Most of my characters I don't bother making a bio for so it's not like the bio is going to be even remotely similar to that of a character I copy.
Of course, I only have one character with a costume that could be considered as copyrighted, and thus far nobody's said a thing about seeing her running around. I have a folder on Deviantart with images taken from either the costume creator or the character selection screen showing my attempts at making a design loosesly approaching various known looks, and some of them are actually pretty well done in my opinion. I would never play some of them though.
I think I'm pretty safe, since only one actually made it past the 'screenshot of costume creator' stage.
Well my main is ofcourse taken from history. And I have in the past had players complaining about lack of originality on my part. But never had a word of problems with the devs.
And on Union I am very high profile leading the top 10 SG and using the name here on the forums.
Bathory Erzsebet
Countess Bathory
Liz Bathory
Someone else has Elizabeth Bathory and Erzsebet Bathory. If they would free up on Union I would like to have them 
There was never a copyright on. And will never be.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
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Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
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I once heard Doctor Geist mention that he had to argue to keep the name of his namesake character. He apparently made it before CoV and the NPC character Doctor Geist came out. Since I understand they normally generic you without any warning, I presume that he had to get it reversed.
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Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Here's a question- have the devs ever reversed a Genericing... genericazation... generification... you know what i mean.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
This is hearsay, but I recall hearing of a published author who recreated his own characters in this game, got genericed, and successfully got it reversed because after all they were his characters. I'm totally blanking on the author's name right now, and I don't think he plays any more. No, it's not he of the Zuni mask, he makes up originals anyway. I'll think of it in a minute.
Jim Butcher, author of The Dresden Files. That's who it was, just remembered. Several years ago he played, supposedly.
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I stand corrected.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
4.e. You may not select as your Character Name the name of another person, or a name which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive.
4.f. You may not create a Battle Cry, Character Description, give a name to a Super Group, or give a title to a Super Group member that is the name/description/title of another person, or a name/description/title which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive or its affiliates, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive. 6.d.ii. impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a NC Interactive employee, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity; |
I think my "Captain Slow" on Triumph is still okay though, since his bio states that his real name is Mayes Jameson, co-presenter of BBC comedy show "High Gear" alongside Clark Jermaine and Hamish Richards. Or maybe I did see that, and that's why I didn't use any of their real names.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
I'd just like to point out that there's no such thing as a character that's "100% yours" in CoH. Quite the contrary actually, any and every character you create on any CoH server is property of NCSoft.
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I don't believe this is entirely accurate. If the character was created by you prior to being in the game, and you have some evidence of it, then you have the rights to that character, and you don't relinquish those rights just by making said character in a game.
Ignoring the name blocks and genericing and whatnot for a moment, for example if Stan Lee played the game and made Spiderman in the game, NCSoft would not own the rights to Spiderman. If Will Eisner created an in-game character named Spirit, the NCSoft would not own the Spirit. They may claim control of in-game likeness, but the character would still be Eisner's or Lee's.
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
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They'd be generic'd
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Originally Posted by DarkEther
Ignoring the name blocks and genericing and whatnot for a moment, for example if Stan Lee played the game and made Spiderman in the game, NCSoft would not own the rights to Spiderman. If Will Eisner created an in-game character named Spirit, the NCSoft would not own the Spirit. They may claim control of in-game likeness, but the character would still be Eisner's or Lee's.
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If she doesn't look like this either, you might be safe:|
Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
I have one tribute character on Liberty named "Avenger America". It's female, not male (will eventually be 5 different people in the same costume - a team in itself) and while patriotic themed does not copy Captain America's costume. Not a clone, but a tribute meant to make you think of Captain America. She doesn't pretend to be him.
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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1...ream_super.jpg
4.f. You may not create a Battle Cry, Character Description, give a name to a Super Group, or give a title to a Super Group member that is the name/description/title of another person, or a name/description/title which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive or its affiliates, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive.
6.d.ii. impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a NC Interactive employee, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
While it's unlikely that you'll have anything happen for creating zombie Benjamin Franklin, it looks to me like NCSoft is well within their right specified by the EULA to generic you for it. IANAL.
Once you DO create a wholly original character that is "100% yours" in the CoH character creation machine and then hit the "Enter the City" button (or whatever that button's called) the character is now 0% yours and 100% NCSoft's.
Seriously, read the EULA carefully. Really, go read it. They own the rights to any characters you make here.
The last point is most important. If, for example, you've already published a character you developed, NCSoft can't automatically gain ownership of that character simply because you created it in CoH. By re-creating your character in CoH, you're only granting NCSoft the right to display your character (as I understand it, this is particularly important because NCSoft requires that right in order to display your character to, say, the people on your PuG).
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt