Veteran Reward Revamp: Vet Tokens.
By
Bubbawheat,
Posted on: 2010-04-07 20:06 in Suggestions and Ideas
Quick rundown of how this thread will go, as have many others before it, including one that I started way back when.
(typically) newer players: Yes! Great idea! I want some of the rewards now instead of waiting! And I'd rather get good rewards instead of crappy costume pieces that I don't ever want.
(typically) older players: No! The rewards were created for long term vets of the game and should be awarded accordingly. It diminishes my reward that I got by playing for 6 years if someone playing for 3 months could also get it.
tech savvy players: The tech involved in creating a system to change all current vet awards and future vet rewards into a token system along with a UI is much more effort than they would want to spend at this time.
Personally, I currently agree the most with the third argument. Though I feel that all three have valid points.
stick around and you will get those rewards. vet rewards are for continuosly paying your sub fees and are a gift from NC. if you change them now you WILL piss off a lot of people and then when they leave there will be no more rewards to worry about.
and FYI, they do not give out vet rewards on a monthly basis, they are given every 3 months of CONTINUOUSLY paying your sub fees.
I realize it's on a three month basis.
That's why a normal reward costs three tokens.
...And yeah, I figured that's how the thread would go...
What Bubba said.
no.
It has been stated many times, even by the developers. The Veteran rewards are VETERAN REWARDS. Get over it.
The rewards are a thank you for having played for a set length of time. You don't get to choose what you get, because it would kind of defeat the purpose of it and become just another thing for players to work toward.
It's supposed to be something extra you get for free. WHO CARES if it's not what you wanted, it didn't cost you anything, so why are you complaining about it?
And just to stop the inevitable argument before it starts: No it really DIDN'T cost you anything. You pay your subscription fee to play the game, not to earn veteran rewards. That's why it's called a subscription fee and not a veteran reward earning fee.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Quick rundown of how this thread will go, as have many others before it, including one that I started way back when.
(typically) newer players: Yes! Great idea! I want some of the rewards now instead of waiting! And I'd rather get good rewards instead of crappy costume pieces that I don't ever want. (typically) older players: No! The rewards were created for long term vets of the game and should be awarded accordingly. It diminishes my reward that I got by playing for 6 years if someone playing for 3 months could also get it. tech savvy players: The tech involved in creating a system to change all current vet awards and future vet rewards into a token system along with a UI is much more effort than they would want to spend at this time. Personally, I currently agree the most with the third argument. Though I feel that all three have valid points. |
You forgot one.
Common Sense players: Allowing players to use tokens to buy their favorite vet rewards as soon as possible will only lead those same players to start whining and crying that the remaining vet rewards all suck after they cherry picked the ones they wanted.
Leaving things as they are means that while they may not like every single reward there is always something to look forward to.
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People "alienate" all the time for various reasons - you are not the right AT, wrong powersets, wrong choices in a powerset, powers not slotted the way they should be slotted, powers not slotted with IOs, or not even IOs sets, etc. So what part of this alienating factor are vet badges? |
Originally Posted by NightErrant
Veteran Rewards are great, but the thing is that there's kind of an alienating factor. To have the latest vet reward, you need to have been a member since the game came out.
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And have you thought that a player joining today and plays for 2 years will be 2 years ahead of a new player joining 2 years from now? There will be someone before you and after you if you are a new player. What's the difference? I am just seeing an "I want it now" expression.
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| But otherwise, this seems like a cleaner, more balanced system. Veterans can still be ID'd by their badges, and players don't have to wait months for costume pieces. |
And what about the players that have waited months to get their rewards? This would not go over well saying "too bad you waited!"
And lastly, Forbin_Project echoes my thought exactly that players would just cherry pick the powers and the rest of the rewards would go wasted.
Sounds pretty reasonable, at least for the vet costume pieces (not sure about powers). It does feel kinda silly trying to explain to someone that they'll have to play the game for over 3 years to be able to wear boxing gloves and shorts.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I'll give the same answer to this I've been giving for several years every time this "vet token" idea comes up:|
Originally Posted by NightErrant
So... I offer a suggestion. Ditch the old "set item each month" system. Instead, every month you recieve a special "Veterans Token". Players can then go to a special "Store" on the NCsoft Website.
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Your idea is a good one and probably would have worked fine if the Vet system had been set up that way from the very beginning. But now the game is completely entrenched with players at all levels of Vet seniority. There's basically just too many problems with changing it now which range from various types of players whining to the amount of effort it would take for the Devs to rearrange it.
While anything's possible it's probably safest to assume the Vet system is never going to be changed for all sorts of reasons.
Maybe this'll be a "lesson learned" for CoH2...
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Without passing judgement when they first started the vet reward program they didn't have as wide a selection of things to offer so they used costumes as filler. The game had been out for about three years and most people would be getting the rewards immediately. Since that time they've gotten away from costumes as rewards as they developed new perks.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Sounds pretty reasonable, at least for the vet costume pieces (not sure about powers). It does feel kinda silly trying to explain to someone that they'll have to play the game for over 3 years to be able to wear boxing gloves and shorts.
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Stop now.|
Originally Posted by NightErrant
. . .So... I offer a suggestion. ...
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You are trying to mess up the ONLY completely equal and fair set of rewards in the game.
I have several very long very complete answers to this dead horse, which has been brought up in almost this exact same idea almost every time before.
I will skip the whole long answer if you just quit pushing it now.
But VRs are the ONLY perfectly fair reward in the game.
- Each player gets exactly one set of VRs every 3 months.
- Each player gets exactly the same reward at the same point(length of service) in their career. When you reach MonthX, YOU get the exact same reward every other player got/gets/will get, when THEY hit monthX.
- You cannot PL to get VRs.
- You cannot cheat to get VRs.
- You cannot throw RL money at the game to get VRs. (VRs do not care how rich you are.)
- You cannot manipulate the game to get VRs ahead or out of order compared to what all the other players get.
- All you have to do is pay, and wait. (You don't even have to play.. just wait.) and every 3 months, you get another carrot to keep you playing longer. The same carrot as everyone else at your length of service.
Quit trying to mess up the ONLY perfectly fair set of rewards in the game.
More later if you still need more.
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/Unsigned. And basically what Stever said
/thread
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I just wish I could have the option to skip the rewards I don't want. I'm never going to use the greek letters for example. Even if you only get one or two 'skips' I'd be happy.
And this is going to anger the same people that got angry about Epic ATs at 20, if it happened.
Okay okay. I GET IT!
I'm not trying to unbalance the game. I get the point. It's a bad idea.
Fine. Alternate suggestion. Retool the ability to pick veteran rewards just to costume pieces. Leave everything else as-is. That way new players don't have to wait for boxing gloves or something, and vets have something more than respecs and icon tokens to look foreward to. As the system is currently, devs can't introduce new vet costume pieces without upsetting players who just recently purchased the game. Tweaking the costume rewards would help that without "ruining" the system. That was what I was trying to adress. Finding a way to reward 78 month vets without upsetting the 24 monthers.
Is -that- better? D:
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That sounds more like the way the Sands of Mu/Ghost Slaying axe/nem staff/blackwand are handled - I'd have no issue with that (though there's always the "that's the last one to select, blah" for some people, i suppose.)|
Originally Posted by NightErrant
Fine. Alternate suggestion. Retool the ability to pick veteran rewards just to costume pieces. Leave everything else as-is. That way new players don't have to wait for boxing gloves or something, and vets have something more than respecs and icon tokens to look foreward to. As the system is currently, devs can't introduce new vet costume pieces without upsetting players who just recently purchased the game. Tweaking the costume rewards would help that without "ruining" the system. That was what I was trying to adress. Finding a way to reward 78 month vets without upsetting the 24 monthers.
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Of course, there are the people who are partway through the costumes (really anyone over 3 mo.) - afaik there's no way to "respec" these, so they'd be somewhat stuck - which goes back to the "If they'd done that at the beginning" argument.
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There ya go!|
Originally Posted by Miakis
I just wish I could have the option to skip the rewards I don't want. I'm never going to use the greek letters for example.
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Yup.. You already have that ability! Gratz!
- I too, skip the greek letters.
- I skip the Kilt too. Almost used it once, but no. I have skipped it
- I DID use the prestige sprints once, but that was a mistake. I hated 6 more powers cluttering up my list and slotting screen. - - -Skippped forever more!
- I don't think I have ever used all my respecs or costume changes!
And the ones you DO want? They will stay out there, where they are intended... sitting there in the future as a little non game breaking carrots, to keep you anticipating and paying and playing!
That is the real purpose of VRs!
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Possibly not.|
Originally Posted by NightErrant
Okay okay. I GET IT!
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| Retool the ability to pick veteran rewards just to costume pieces. Leave everything else as-is. That way new players don't have to wait for boxing gloves or something, and vets have something more than respecs and icon tokens to look foreward to. |
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As the system is currently, devs can't introduce new vet costume pieces without upsetting players who just recently purchased the game. Tweaking the costume rewards would help that without "ruining" the system. That was what I was trying to adress. Finding a way to reward 78 month vets without upsetting the 24 monthers. Is -that- better? D: |
Am I happy that I won't see any more vet costume sets? Of course not. But I don't entirely blame the vet reward system, I mostly blame those who will inevitably complain if a costume set is placed years beyond reach.
I resign myself to the vet reward being reduced to little utility gadgets from now on because putting a costume set at 75 months means there would be endless schemes posted on the suggestion forum to modify the vet system.
Just about the only fair thing I can think of at this point is for the devs to introduce new vet reward costume pieces AND at the same time nearly identical costume sets at the tailor shop for all other players. I think they erred by not doing this from the beginning.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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Not quite sure how having veteran rewards as token detracts from the very fact they are veterans rewards...|
Originally Posted by je_saist
no.
It has been stated many times, even by the developers. The Veteran rewards are VETERAN REWARDS. Get over it. |
A longer serving vet is STILL going to have more veteran rewards than a newbie. So that Newbie gets to pick wings at 3 months instead of 15, meh big deal or they get the Nemesis Staff/Blackwand instead of the Sands of Mu/Ghost slaying axe...again don't see a problem with that.
heck I've been here over 3 years now EU side (and almost 15 months US side) so I'm not exactly a newbie and I wouldn't care if people got stuff earlier than I did.
Unlike the poster before me I'm INCREDIBLY glad they haven't put costume pieces at the ***-end of the vet rewards system because it only causes kevetching.
Plus most vet players see it as annoying whinning...I see it as the fact the player has got to sit there for 3 years and 3 months just to get a costume reward of boxing gloves and boxing shorts.
Vet reward costumes as status items are frankly a stupid, almost World of Warcraft type idea (the higher tier armour is often used as a 'status piece') I'd much rather they gave us semi-useful powers like the new one (inspirations do 5% more) or the map clearing one (especially useful now we can find the last enemy/glowie) than a costume piece.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Not quite sure how having veteran rewards as token detracts from the very fact they are veterans rewards...
A longer serving vet is STILL going to have more veteran rewards than a newbie. So that Newbie gets to pick wings at 3 months instead of 15, meh big deal or they get the Nemesis Staff/Blackwand instead of the Sands of Mu/Ghost slaying axe...again don't see a problem with that. heck I've been here over 3 years now EU side (and almost 15 months US side) so I'm not exactly a newbie and I wouldn't care if people got stuff earlier than I did. Plus most vet players see it as annoying whinning...I see it as the fact the player has got to sit there for 3 years and 3 months just to get a costume reward of boxing gloves and boxing shorts. |
Ok, I'll repeat my earlier post. Allowing players to use tokens to buy their favorite vet rewards as soon as possible will only lead those same players to start whining and crying that the remaining vet rewards all suck after they cherry picked the ones they wanted.
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Or "degraded" alternate versions should be made available to everyone, including vets. The vet players get access to both versions, while everyone has access to concept alternate versions.
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Originally Posted by NightErrant
That way new players don't have to wait for boxing gloves or something, and vets have something more than respecs and icon tokens to look foreward to.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Costumes as vet rewards - especially oft-requested pieces like trench coats and wings - were mostly likely a collosal mistake, and if the devs could take them back they probably would.
But I'll be perfectly honest here - there are way more vets that whine/would whine about losing vet rewards than there are newbies that would whine/whine about getting them sooner (at starting?), so it's never going to happen.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
But I'll be perfectly honest here - there are way more vets that whine/would whine about losing vet rewards than there are newbies that would whine/whine about getting them sooner (at starting?), so it's never going to happen.
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The devs have never once said that they were considering removing vet rewards from the game so there has never been anyone whining about "losing" vet rewards.
...Okay.
So, I read your feedback.
...And the parade of /unsigned, and the bold caps.
And I get it. The idea of Veteran Tokens is horrible and unbalanced.
So let my try again...
The problem that I perceive with the veteran reward system specifically applies to costume parts. Powers and the like are fine as is. My original idea was far too broad.
The issue I see is this: the way the system stands, the devs cannot introduce new Vet Costume Parts. If they did, new players would have to wait years to get them. So as a result, long term vets are resigned to things like the latest vet rewards.
So, instead of using tokens, I'm going with what several people in this thread have said. Why not apply a system like this solely to costume pieces.
In comparison to this threads original, ill-conceived idea, it seems a bit more balanced. The devs can freely create new costume pieces for vets if they wanted too. Players who desire a specific vet costume piece can pick it up next time the "Costume Set" award comes up. Everyone still has things to look forward too. The "Cherry picking" syndrome is still in effect, but it's diminished.
...Is that a better idea? D: