Discussion: Live Patch Notes - 4/7/10
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-04-07 09:43 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Before this little part, I had just assumed you had a big ego from all the things you've done, but now it comes across that you are very full of yourself.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Unless I specifically use the words "I'm just guessing" then when I say anything about the powers system, the powers implementation, the game code, the developers design tools, the developers design methodology, or the general game mechanics I am not guessing.
I almost never *have to* guess. In the specific case about how Castle manages and implements the powers system, the only person on Earth that knows more about that is Castle. After his morning coffee. |
And yes, I get the irony that that is coming from someone with the name "PracticallyGod"
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And the changes that led to the XP being removed from all of the above was because of...|
Originally Posted by PracticallyGod
I see risk vs reward being brought up a lot, but there are plenty of things the devs changed that skew that anyways. CoT portals and Comm officer portals spring to mind. Any summoned enemy really - Infernals demons, Batzuls imps, anything the wyvern conjure up, ect... all things that bring with them plenty of risk but literally 0 reward. I can see why they were changed, but there is still risk involved and no reward.
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...wait for it...
...a handful of players exploiting something in a way the devs didn't anticipate!
Many decry nerfs, but many also fail to put the blame for nerfs like these squarely where they belong: On that handful of players who exploit weaknesses in the game. Instead, they blame the devs and/or pull out the same tired script - "I'll play how I want to who are you to tell me otherwise it's all the whiners' fault ha ha you can't stop us my subscription is up I'm outta here."
(Zube is still painting with a reeeeal wide brush here.)
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Yup. Sounds about right. |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I can't help but notice that the forum's default color is reserved for insults.
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"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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First of all, that's "madam", not "sir". |
Originally Posted by Flameshot
If you believe that the development team hasn't created a tool even remotely close to something like this, you sir...I can't even finish it.
I understand there are dev fanbois, but this really cuts the cake. Tools created to assist in maintenance when it comes to databases and other types of technology in this industry are pretty much a requirement. Just wow. I guess if you didn't have a legit rebuttal, ignorance always works. |
Second of all, for all I know they do indeed have a tool like this. They should. They probably do. That probability could be 98%. My point was that you can't use an assumption that may or may not be accurate as the entire foundation of your argument.
And "tools created to assist in maintenance..." Yes, I know. But you're speaking generally. Another_Fan seems to think that they have a tool that will immediately spit out a nice, tidy list of which powers need to be affected by this. And, *points to Arcanaville's post*, it's not that easy. Actually, after reading her post, I don't know that you could automate spitting out such a list, since there are so many variables with the powers (pseudopets, AOE buffs that don't target, etc). Or at least, you couldn't automate it *easily*.
Another_Fan's whole argument is that narrowing down the powers that need to be affected is something so ridiculously easy it can be done in a day (again, by pointing to his imaginary tool). It's not. I think, at this point, it's patently obvious that it's not. Regardless of tools available.
Edited to add: I caught this on a second pass through Arcanaville's post:
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| There is no such database. There is no such entity of any kind query-capable that exists anywhere within Paragon Studios itself. |
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You hate to admit that Arcana is articulate, intelligent, thoughtful, tests things frequently and therefore knows what she is talking about, and is not given to dogmatic over-generalizations like most of the rest of us do (present company included)? And this surprises you?|
Originally Posted by GMan3
As much as I hate to admit it, I have to side with Arcanaville on this one. Well thought out and argued.
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"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
I'm just constantly amazed by ArcanaVille.
How do you have all this info?
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Probably not alone in thinking it would be greatly preferable if the try to stamp out the individual powers. Granted some will be missed on the first and even second pass, but nullify most of them on the first go, as more issues arise nullify them.
I'm not sure why people are so fixated on a 100% solution right now. The implemented change is FAR from that.
I'm reasonably confident that a good majority of the problem powers could be stamped out quickly. As the arms race continues you stamp out the new problem powers as they arise.
Or carpet bomb the whole system like they did. Whatever works for you.
Not sure why this has degraded to "if you can't solve every single problem power immediately, then nuke the whole system". Maybe things are a lot worse at Paragon than we think.
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I think she's an alien/witch satellite thing that collided with a calculator and minor deity and then plummeted to Earth where she took on an organic, but ultimately immortal, form. |
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I'm just constantly amazed by ArcanaVille.
How do you have all this info? |
You're welcome to your own speculation, of course.
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Silence, grown-ups are talking.
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Originally Posted by Marsquake2
tl;dr;go out and get some fresh air
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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Solution:
Using the new critter 'power to XP percentage modifier' as a model... create an XP loss modifier per 'Secondary' power chosen for an ally (per ally). This, in addtion to the standard 'attacking ally' XP loss.
The modifier should be set low as to not heavily penalize the author/arc that elects to have only a few buffing allies but the more such allies that are added, the higher the cumulative penalty becomes.
The modifier should just be a flat percentage; unbiased by the specifics of the power(s) chosen.
[This calc would be done at each target defeat (instead of a total count at mission start) to allow for the flux of ally defeats or the addition on new allies]
Another option would be (either as a separate idea or as a compliment to the above) to set things up so that ally critters could be flagged as such; flagged critters having their effectiveness (and possibly, HP) cut by X%.
I'm not saying that these are simple or end all solutions... but, on the surface, it seems that they could work
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Farmers enjoy efficiency and will always seek out the most efficient means of accumulating rewards. |
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Thank you very much for the fix, lets just hope the farmers dont find a way around this one and actually go back to old skool teaming where you actually play the game instead of repeating the same mission a billion times over
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I'm afraid becoming the apple of a farmer's eye is an impossible task for 'old skool teaming'.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Mr. Sock Puppet Says:|
Originally Posted by Marsquake2
tl;dr;go out and get some fresh air
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"I have no way to refute logical, well-researched, articulate arguements from people who clearly know more about the topic that I do. So I guess I'll go with a random implied ad hominim instead."
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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What does ego have to do with anything. I don't have to guess not because I'm so amazingly smart that I can deduce everything like Sherlock Holmes: I don't have to guess because I discuss these matters with the devs often, and have for years, and because in many cases I've actually seen, first hand, the specific things I'm talking about. When I say "Castle can't just trivially sort the powers system into damaging and non-damaging powers" that's not a guess, and not an attempt to impress you with my powers of observation. Its a simple statement of fact.|
Originally Posted by PracticallyGod
Before this little part, I had just assumed you had a big ego from all the things you've done, but now it comes across that you are very full of yourself.
And yes, I get the irony that that is coming from someone with the name "PracticallyGod" |
Its no more egotistical of me to state that the powers system doesn't work that way than it would be for Castle or one of the powers designers to state that, or for another player to state that Power Blast does 1.64 scale damage. For me, its just a simple, completely non-controversial fact.
If you think I'm being egotistical because someone is calling me essentially either a liar or a really bad guesser, and further implying either malice or intellectual dishonesty by claiming I'm deliberately constructing strawmen to obfuscate the problem and impede a solution, when what I am stating are the actual facts of the situation, and I've decided to pack the dirt onto the hole after pushing him into it, well, *that* sort of ego I have no problem with. If you're going to try to capture the intellectual high ground with me and you think you can get away with doing that balancing on one leg while standing on beachball, I might decide to tip you over face first and then laugh. I make no apologies for that. Heck: link to the thread and proclaim that facet of my egotisticalness anywhere you want, because I'm not ashamed of that.
(Getting better at iPad typing)
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
This topic spiralled quickly from discussing patch notes to arguments to ego stroking and some butt kissing
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It's egotistical when you compare yourself to a dev, which your not no matter how much you've helped them or how much people wish you were. Your posts went from discussing the topic to discussing the topic and some pot shots to discussing the topic with some patting yourself on the back mixed in. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its no more egotistical of me to state that the powers system doesn't work that way than it would be for Castle or one of the powers designers to state that, or for another player to state that Power Blast does 1.64 scale damage. For me, its just a simple, completely non-controversial fact.
(Getting better at iPad typing) |
Now that this topic has been derailed even more, lets get back on track.
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Please tell me one thing that you have to farm to get, in order to be able to participate in this game at a high level? I have made more money and IO'ed more heroes by playing the game in a general way as opposed to farming. IO's aren't needed; purples and PvP Io's, not needed. Other than accolades, very few badges truly effect gameplay. Nothing required to play this game requires farming.
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Originally Posted by Captain Fabulous
If you don't want people to farm stop putting **** in the game that requires farming to get.
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Since your actual on-topic contributions to this thread so far is zero, you'll excuse me if I consider your moderator credentials even more suspect than you consider my dev credentials.|
Originally Posted by PracticallyGod
It's egotistical when you compare yourself to a dev, which your not no matter how much you've helped them or how much people wish you were. Your posts went from discussing the topic to discussing the topic and some pot shots to discussing the topic with some patting yourself on the back mixed in.
Now that this topic has been derailed even more, lets get back on track. |
Also I think I'm shorter than Castle. But a little less crazy than pohsyb. I'm probably tied with BaB on the forum trigger finger. Look at my ego go. My ego has a message for you: it asks "guess which one is my forum trigger finger."
Now *that's* a pot shot. My response to A_F is a rebuttal. I can provide you with more examples if you wish, just ask, and ye shall receive (unless I'm on a plane).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Right. If you managed to kill off every single exploit, they'd still find the most efficient "not quite an exploit" mission. If AE was ripped out of the game entirely, they'd just go back to stalking Battle Maiden and stealing her lunch money, or whatever the "best" of the old farming missions was.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Farmers enjoy efficiency and will always seek out the most efficient means of accumulating rewards.
I'm afraid becoming the apple of a farmer's eye is an impossible task for 'old skool teaming'. |
*Edit* and with the new difficulty slider, they don't even have to pad their team to get to the ideal balance of minions per mission.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Since your actual on-topic contributions to this thread so far is zero, you'll excuse me if I consider your moderator credentials even more suspect than you consider my dev credentials.
Also I think I'm shorter than Castle. But a little less crazy than pohsyb. I'm probably tied with BaB on the forum trigger finger. Look at my ego go. My ego has a message for you: it asks "guess which one is my forum trigger finger." Now *that's* a pot shot. My response to A_F is a rebuttal. I can provide you with more examples if you wish, just ask, and ye shall receive (unless I'm on a plane). |
I see your maturity is inverse to your ego. No point in responding to you anymore, good day and safe travels.
I've seen some appropriate applications of this video before, but this may be the best one yet.
How do you kill that which has no life (no it isn't a rickroll)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu16eUQwCWU
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The last bit reminds me of the scene in Matrix Reloaded with the Architect. The scene is full of "intellectual conversation" by way of using bigger words or less often used words to convey that the architect was brilliant. Now I dont know about you but I've never used the word obfuscate in a normal day to day conversation despite knowing its meaning and proper use of the word as well as the others.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
What does ego have to do with anything. I don't have to guess not because I'm so amazingly smart that I can deduce everything like Sherlock Holmes: I don't have to guess because I discuss these matters with the devs often, and have for years, and because in many cases I've actually seen, first hand, the specific things I'm talking about. When I say "Castle can't just trivially sort the powers system into damaging and non-damaging powers" that's not a guess, and not an attempt to impress you with my powers of observation. Its a simple statement of fact.
Its no more egotistical of me to state that the powers system doesn't work that way than it would be for Castle or one of the powers designers to state that, or for another player to state that Power Blast does 1.64 scale damage. For me, its just a simple, completely non-controversial fact. If you think I'm being egotistical because someone is calling me essentially either a liar or a really bad guesser, and further implying either malice or intellectual dishonesty by claiming I'm deliberately constructing strawmen to obfuscate the problem and impede a solution, when what I am stating are the actual facts of the situation, and I've decided to pack the dirt onto the hole after pushing him into it, well, *that* sort of ego I have no problem with. If you're going to try to capture the intellectual high ground with me and you think you can get away with doing that balancing on one leg while standing on beachball, I might decide to tip you over face first and then laugh. I make no apologies for that. Heck: link to the thread and proclaim that facet of my egotisticalness anywhere you want, because I'm not ashamed of that. |
I like that all retorts to Arcanaville being smarter than them is to make fun of Arcanaville being smarter than them.
Because everyone knows nerds are LAME.
reading comprehension ftw
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no u|
Originally Posted by Marsquake2
reading comprehension ftw
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*EDIT* - Assuming you can get over the weally big tuff words, of course.
It's like I'm in that other thread where you were getting your **** ****.