The only people complaining are the lazy ones that feel entitled to shiny rare stuff but vehemently refuse to work for it.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
The problem with red side is that the market isn't as deep as blue side, so if you are looking for something very specific usually the price will be stratospheric if it is on the market at all.
yeah, earning isn't really the problem with redside it's supply of the 'good stuff', especially below 50.
This reminds me to update my 'casual player earning' thread- I managed to clear a level since I originally posted it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
This is the problem I run into the most. Recipes just aren't available a lot of the time, so I have been running Oro arcs for merits lately and buying the recipes I need. It seems to make getting the ones I want much faster. For salvage I run AE and just buy the salvage. I have a real issue with paying over 100k for salvage.
|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
The problem with red side is that the market isn't as deep as blue side, so if you are looking for something very specific usually the price will be stratospheric if it is on the market at all.
|
Okay, this has come up before. There was a marketing challenge a while back to see how much you could generate within the first hour of creating a toon.
The goal was 1 million inf. During the day, on a weekday, using sub-optimal flipping and vendoring on a toon with only one recipe slot, I was able to generate just under half a million inf.
1 hour to create enough wealth to SO out a toon at L25-30.
Given more time and more patient market use, the wealth generation would be much higher on a per-minute-in-game basis.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Large insps = great source of money for low-level characters.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Could everyone do this?
Or would the redside market support only a relative few doing this?
I craft generic IOs at a reasonable price to keep myself comfy redside. I have days where nothing shifts because someone's badging for their crafting table or something like that, a few days later it recovers. The market redside is very thin.
Never forget that you're using a lot of specialised knowledge in what you describe in your post. If, for example, the tutorial told everyone to sell their big insps for influence, that step would probably fall apart as a relaible source of starting capital.
I think "it worked for me therefore anyone who complains is just lazy" is a fallacious argument.
Quote:
Yep. It took me about 3 weeks just to get a full SNIPER ATTACK set. Last time I did that blue side, it took me a matter of minutes. All the pieces were there at reasonable prices (hundreds of thousands at most).
|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
The problem with red side is that the market isn't as deep as blue side, so if you are looking for something very specific usually the price will be stratospheric if it is on the market at all.
|
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
The problem, as I'm sure has been hashed to death on these boards, is that for every buyer there must be a seller. I delete snipe recipes on sight redside, because I have better use of my time and slots than to put them on the market. I feel that most redsiders feel the same way.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Yep. It took me about 3 weeks just to get a full SNIPER ATTACK set. Last time I did that blue side, it took me a matter of minutes. All the pieces were there at reasonable prices (hundreds of thousands at most).
|
I can't explain why blue siders waste market slots on selling snipes
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
Quote:
I was IOing my Rad/Storm Corruptor very early Sunday morning in an attempt to have it all IOd and accoladed by that evening. Ended up running me about 1.5 billion, and that was after slotting three Zephyrs, a Numina, a Miracle, two LotGs, and various Karma/Steadfast -KBs that I had lying around in base storage. 900 million of that was the Apocalypse proc and a third LotG, and I'm confident I spent somewhere between 80 and 100 million on salvage. Almost certain that I could've cut that 1.5 billion down to around a billion if I'd've had the time to be patient - most of the big spending came from buying various pool C/D recipes, as the only level they're generally available is max level and so they demand a higher price (I could lowball bids on lower level recipes, but it might be weeks or months before an item is even listed, and that wouldn't guarantee I'd even get it). I've found for non-pool C/D recipes, you can often find great deals on non-max-level recipes and enhancements, even though they enhance only a few percentage points less (why pay 5 million for this level 50 piece when there's a level 48 up for sale and I can get it for 1 million?).
|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
The problem with red side is that the market isn't as deep as blue side, so if you are looking for something very specific usually the price will be stratospheric if it is on the market at all.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Ironically, this also means that the snipe recipes that do make it to market are actually somewhat expensive. A few of the Manticore pieces will sometimes fetch eight-digit prices on the BM.
|
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata
The problem, as I'm sure has been hashed to death on these boards, is that for every buyer there must be a seller. I delete snipe recipes on sight redside, because I have better use of my time and slots than to put them on the market. I feel that most redsiders feel the same way.
I can't explain why blue siders waste market slots on selling snipes |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Of course! If I'm going to give up a slot for selling a recipe redside, I need to get 8 figures out of it.
|
Originally Posted by macskull
Ironically, this also means that the snipe recipes that do make it to market are actually somewhat expensive. A few of the Manticore pieces will sometimes fetch eight-digit prices on the BM.
|
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
As always, DrMike, there's the difference between "everyone can do it" and "anyone who wants to can do it." Real-world example: let's say there's a shortage of nurses. (there were panicky news articles about it some time back, I haven't done any research. There probably is. ) If the 10% of unemployed Americans ALL decided to become nurses, they couldn't do it. But anyone who wanted to become a nurse could do it and get a job.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Because people desire the best stuff in the game. At the beginning, there were only TO, DO and SO (also HO). So, people were happy to have a full set of level ++ SO, as that was as uber as they could get. In fact, the game is designed such that nobody is poor eventually. As you can see, everyone could eventually fully SO themselves in the past (somewhere between high 30s to mid 40s depending on the player).|
Originally Posted by dave_p
So, are people still complaining about not being able to afford stuff?
|
Now, SO and generic IO are really basic stuffs. Everyone can get them easily even at low levels. If you still use DO and SO as a measure of poverty, that means nobody is poor. I think you need a better criteria of being poor. Basically, what people really want, how much those stuffs cost, and how much inf they have.
This type of discussion is usually complicated because what people want is usually not necessary. You draw the baseline using DO and SO, and leads to the conclusion that it is nearly impossible to be poor. It depends on where you draw the line. Some people pursue the goal to completely purple out themselves, then they are persistently poor.
Quote:
Yes.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
So, are people still complaining about not being able to afford stuff? |
If you don't use the Market and just vendor stuff you may not be able to get the millions you need for SOs.
We (meaning me and other Market users) know you can easily get enough to cover yourself for your career, but outside of the Wentworth's people giving you a small breakdown, it's not anywhere in game outside of your friends.
There *really* needs to be a person in each Tutorial that explains this.
<Marketeer with top hat>:
"Hello there, fledgling hero/villain. You may notice the Black Market or Wentworth's in your travels. While this is an optional part of the game, selling your items at these areas may give you a handsome return in currency. Crafting and selling can also increase your income! Feel free to play as you wish, but this is an attractive option to increase your wages, given enough time."
If it's RIGHT THERE, it incentivizes people to use the damned Markets heh.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata
I can't explain why blue siders waste market slots on selling snipes |
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
That's a nice experiment, but I don't think the way you made your inf is something the typical "casual", non-marketeer player would know how to do.
Quote:
They will, provided they read this forum. I consider myself a casual marketer, meaning I don't place a lot of focus on it. Over the course of 8 months, I had one character make 700 million, just by selling level 35 Resist Damage IOs. It was simple and pretty easy. Craft, price, play, and return to Inf. And I learned to do that here.
|
Originally Posted by Clebstein
That's a nice experiment, but I don't think the way you made your inf is something the typical "casual", non-marketeer player would know how to do.
|
Catch me in-game - @blkfalcon
How much specialized knowledge does it take to look at a market and figure out that you can make a profit? Do you really need an MBA (or a year spent in this forum) to see that (recipe + salvage + crafting fee + transaction fee) > (last 5 IOs' selling price) = easy money? Really? Sure, experience & knowledge lets you find the easiest and/or most profitable niches faster, and there are various pricing schemes that will slightly increase your margin, but you can still turn a healthy profit with just a tiny bit of research and bidding/selling everything using big round numbers.
And remember, my own personal definition of poverty is not being able to afford DO/SOs. It was a constant source of frustration for me and others waaaay early in the game before IOs and before the market, where 100K was a lot of cash, and 1M was like set for life. Just being able to escape that within a day or two, to be able to slot your toon w/all the DO/SOs you want when you hit 12/17/22, is a serious luxury. If people are crying that they can't afford their LotGs and Numina uniques and thus are poor, they don't know what poor is.
Oh, the argument that if everyone did this, no one would profit is a bit disingenuous. Fulmens points out correctly that in fact, everyone isn't doing this, and one person starting a trend will not cause everyone else to follow, this despite the fact that we've been giving away our secrets for like 2+ years now over here. More to the point, if you're assuming a perfectly rational market (one where everyone does the smart/selfish thing) there will still be room for profit for labor. My hunting down ingredients and going through the trouble of crafting generics is worth 300K to someone w/billions in the bank. If more fill my role, that margin will drop, but not go away, since that would also eliminate supply. Of course, at that point, my time would likely be better spent farming. 
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Quote:
If I had more spare time I'd totally make a new character like that just to hang out at busy markets and pontificate on the ease of building wealth.
|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
There *really* needs to be a person in each Tutorial that explains this. <Marketeer with top hat>: "Hello there, fledgling hero/villain. You may notice the Black Market or Wentworth's in your travels. While this is an optional part of the game, selling your items at these areas may give you a handsome return in currency. Crafting and selling can also increase your income! Feel free to play as you wish, but this is an attractive option to increase your wages, given enough time." |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
The blueside market has considerably more volume. You can put even low-volume recipes (say, a level 28 snipe) up for sale and expect them to sell within a week or two. The reverse is also true: no matter how strange the recipe, you can expect to find a few for sale.|
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata
The problem, as I'm sure has been hashed to death on these boards, is that for every buyer there must be a seller. I delete snipe recipes on sight redside, because I have better use of my time and slots than to put them on the market. I feel that most redsiders feel the same way.
I can't explain why blue siders waste market slots on selling snipes |
You can't say that about the redside market. My mastermind just hit 32, and I placed bids on some of the IO sets (pet IOs in the 30 to 35 range) for his build. Based on the sales history, I expect half of the bids to fill in the next month, with the other half filling sometime before Going Rogue hits.
I guess I was looking at this from the perspective of a new player, Dave. The specialist knowledge is below isn't really apparent form playing the game:
- in 22 levels time, you'll need a million or two to outfit your character
- you won't be able to afford it just with the influence you make from doing missions
- you can memorise a recipe by crafting it repeatedly, and then make the generic IOs much cheaper
- doing so requires pairs of IOs eg level 25 and 30.
- to see how well you're going with the memorisation, check your Badges tab under Invention
- Alchemical Silvers can be bought for much less than 100,000 (a common last 5 prices to see villain side)
- those big inspirations that they give you and tell you to use in the tutorial aren't remotely necessary for completing the mission, and can be sold on the Black Market for more money than you'll make by level 6 or 10 or whatever.
- they arent normal inspiration drops. You won't see another one of them for some time.
- all this info is avaialble here on the forums or at www.paragonwiki.com
All I'm saying is there will always be people who don't know this.
I agree with you, making money in game is easy. I made a billion on Heroes. I then started on Villains a few months back, and struggled to save up for my first level 20 Acc IO recipe and watched it snowball into 2, 4, ten at a time and now I'm rolling in it on both sides. But I did that armed with specialist knowledge. It would be wrong of me to extrapolate that no-one should ever have money problems in-game ever again.
Quote:
Exactly right. And I'd also say that even though a casual player who does have that knowledge may not want to spend extra time marketeering when they could be running missions.|
Originally Posted by Clebstein
That's a nice experiment, but I don't think the way you made your inf is something the typical "casual", non-marketeer player would know how to do.
|
In fact, I do know how to make some quick cash when I need it, but choose not to waste a lot of time at a crafting table when I could be smashing things in the face... the game is just simply more enjoyable for me that way.
So, in reality, when you factor in purchasing DOs/SOs as they level up, the casual player's cash reserve usually doesn't even break the 1 million mark until level 30 or later.
Sadly, marketeering just may become common knowledge for all casual players if the game's economy doesn't improve... then where would all you ebil niche flippers be?
Quote:
I agree that a brand new player wouldn't know any of what you listed. Then again, I find it hard to believe believe someone w/an ounce of curiosity (and maybe a few pounds of greed) wouldn't stumble into the market and notice *some* disparities in pricing and wonder to him/herself, 'hey, can I actually make money here? Nah, that's gotta be too easy, right?' And off they go. |
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
I guess I was looking at this from the perspective of a new player, Dave. The specialist knowledge is below isn't really apparent form playing the game:
<snip> |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
There is also the thing that very few superhero comics are devoted to Reed Richards playing the markets, buying Magic Wands cheap from Dr Strange and combining them with some Alien Blood to make Steroid Injections to sell to Captain America.
Some people just play the game to be Superheros/villains.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
I noticed there was a discussion about poverty a little while ago, and I was thinking about it as I rolled up my first villain on my (heroes) home server. No sugar daddies, no 100M trust funds upon exiting the tutorial, just stark naked poverty--poverty defined as not being able to afford DOs at 12, SOs at 22/27/etc. Now, I've been "retired" from marketeering for almost a year now and know almost nothing about red-side niches anyway, so I figured this would be a good test of how a relatively "casual" player might try to make some money starting fresh following some really easy steps while mostly playing the game.
Day 1: Exit tutorial, after run a couple of intro missions to get some starting inf, I make my way to the BM. I put up my big insps and finish my intro mishes. When done with those, I check back w/the BM to see the insps sold (+125K), and see what generic IOs are going for a good price (compared to recipe/salvage costs). I notice Luck Charms are pretty cheap red-side and start working on 25/30 Acc IOs. Sell drops and bid on what's needed to get my 1st mem badge and back to playing a bit more before calling it quits. Lvl 6, almost no cash, just enough to craft & sell a few IOs.
Day 2: Check BM to see my bids filled. My lack of storage space & no crafting table nearby makes this difficult, so I go for my Raptor Pack, but craft a few lvl 25 Acc IOs first (the 1st 2 days of running around are a PitA, but worth it long run) and place them on sale. Run 3 paper mish, go rob a bank, check the BM, now in Cap near the university. Craft more IOs and sell them for modest profits (maybe 100~200K a slot). Run more missions to 10, run more papers, get zero-G pack. Fill BM slots w/crafted Acc IOs, log for the night. Lvl 11-ish, about 500K.
Day 3: Everything's sold, sitting at over 1M, 25/30 Acc mem badge done (so higher profit margins), craft & sell more IOs. Ding 12 and I have more than enough inf to get every DO I need, so I buy all that I need w/o batting an eye. Join a VG w/a minimal base, continue to play "casually", but make sure my BM slots are full before logging.
<More of the same for a few days and...>
Day 5 or 6 (didn't keep perfect track): I'm sitting at lvl 23 on my vil w/around 18M in the bank and fully SOed out except where I've slotted generic IOs. I've been duoing quite a bit w/a friend whom I've equipped w/all the 25 Acc IOs he needed as well. I've actually memorized the whole Acc line (10-40 anyway) and most of the Rech line as well, cuz well, I need my first FC on red side sooner or later. Am thinking about frankenslotting soon.
So now, I have a steady, if small, stream of income and I suspect I'll have in the 200M range by the time I get FC from previous experiences. All for spending a few extra minutes each day crafting generic IOs (again, the 1st 2 days took a bit longer), which will go faster still once I get FC. Of course, once I hit the 100M mark or so, I'll likely start sniffing around for more lucrative niches for some real profiteering, which will take even less time, but for now, I'm content w/my low level ebilness.
So, are people still complaining about not being able to afford stuff?
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee