Great Job Devs!!
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2010-03-07 04:12 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Wow...
I totally expected the title to have been meant sarcastically. Good to see someone can say that and mean it.
Yeah, I agree that the devs are doing a great job.
The newer powersets like Dual Blades and Dual Pistols are also introducing new gameplay tricks, like combos or ammo-swapping. Both of these would require some additional code, but in my opinion are well worth the effort. They're nothing game-changing, but enough to make each set feel fresh when you play it, and not just some different animations and damage type tacked on to the same framework.
This is a really good time to be playing CoX.
I feel the same way as the OP. 
I'm also looking forward to being able to email between characters; that will be a *very* nice QOL change.
I agree, dual pistols is a brilliant set and sports some of the best animations that I've seen in any MMO. Some players might be turned off by the martial arts gun-play, but there's no denying the quality of the animations themselves.
I also like the skills. Piercing Shot is a nice attack, granting heavy damage to a limited number of targets. I've wanted something that had lower AoE target caps but hit like a truck at range. This skill is awesome.
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Yup! That's half the reason I love it. Like I said earlier it was the ammo swapping that really sealed the deal for me. They really seem to be putting an effort into making each new set have one small different gameplay gimmick so that it'll completely warp your character.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Yeah, I agree that the devs are doing a great job.
The newer powersets like Dual Blades and Dual Pistols are also introducing new gameplay tricks, like combos or ammo-swapping. Both of these would require some additional code, but in my opinion are well worth the effort. They're nothing game-changing, but enough to make each set feel fresh when you play it, and not just some different animations and damage type tacked on to the same framework. This is a really good time to be playing CoX. |
Even shields kinda did. I saw it as a very offensive defensive power set. Yea you got some defense and resistance but if you just sat there the mobs would slowly (or sometimes not so slowly) take you down. Instead of additional defenses you got Against All Odds and shield charge so you could take them down before they get you. Really made taking my scrapper to 50 a breeze.
With all due respect....perhaps if we didn't have so many people during beta that were in AWE of pistols animations but instead looked at the set for performance....we might not have a really, really cool looking GIMPED set.
Ok rant over.
My apologies if I managed to insult anyone with my criticism.
Overall the Devs do deserve an A for effort.
I hope pistols isn't any indication of how demons will function in the game.
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I heard everybody and their mother say it was lacking damage and yet it seems like everyone of those people are still playing their DPs and plan on rolling another. It's the utilities and the ability to have interesting IO slotting that save it. The "I shoot all over the place even away from the mob" animation just plain looks horrible, but I'm all over what I would guess would be Swap Ammo. It's the one where the guns get flipped in the air.
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Originally Posted by milehigh77
With all due respect....perhaps if we didn't have so many people during beta that were in AWE of pistols animations but instead looked at the set for performance....we might not have a really, really cool looking GIMPED set.
Ok rant over. |
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Yeah, even Dual Blades' combos didn't take up a power selection. Swap Ammo should be inherent.
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Originally Posted by milehigh77
With all due respect....perhaps if we didn't have so many people during beta that were in AWE of pistols animations but instead looked at the set for performance....we might not have a really, really cool looking GIMPED set.
Ok rant over. My apologies if I managed to insult anyone with my criticism. Overall the Devs do deserve an A for effort. I hope pistols isn't any indication of how demons will function in the game. |
Agreed. Dual Pistols is an awesome addition. Look how many people ordered it early. It has created great buzz for the game during the 2XP weekend.
This made a ton of people happy and filled a much needed hole in concepts.
I hope we have many many more powers to pick from in the near future. Powers and hero customization are huge keys to making the people happy.
Dual Pistols seems a success.
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Oh, but they are. You hold one demon in each hand and squeeze their necks to make them shoot fire out of their nostrils. It's exactly the same.
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Originally Posted by milehigh77
I hope pistols isn't any indication of how demons will function in the game.
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Do you honestly think that Dual Pistols is gimped, or is that just hyperbole to elicit a response? The breadth of secondary effects we receive through Swap Ammo means that you can:|
Originally Posted by milehigh77
With all due respect....perhaps if we didn't have so many people during beta that were in AWE of pistols animations but instead looked at the set for performance....we might not have a really, really cool looking GIMPED set.
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- Stack -damage with other debuffs, or with resistance. In fact, -damage functions like resistance.
- Stack -recharge and slow with other debuffs.
- Stack holds with other abilites.
- Stak stuns with other abilities.
- Stack -resistance with other debuffs.
Dual Pistols works best with Corruptors and Defenders that can employ Swap Ammo to layer greater values of a specific debuff on opponents-- they also receive better values than Blasters do.
It seems that a lot of the Dual Pistols complaints stem from what I call "Willpower Syndrome," for if a new set doesn't obliterate every previous set in raw performance, either damage or survivability, then it's clearly gimped. People complained about Shield Defense for months until the realized how (over)powered it was with heavy IO investment. Now they're cool with it. I'm glad that Dual Pistols isn't blatantly overpowered relative to previous abilities. We have enough power creep in this game as is.
Dual Pistols works. It offers the second best base accuracy of any set, and has a powerful single-target attack with 1.4 base accuracy. It offers good DPE, and has a huge spectrum of secondary effects that indeed provide significant game play value-- perhaps being better suited for buffing/debuffing classes. It also happens to provide the most utility while being lower-middle of the pack in raw damage. And check out those PvP numbers...
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I stand corrected |
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Do you honestly think that Dual Pistols is gimped, or is that just hyperbole to elicit a response? The breadth of secondary effects we receive through Swap Ammo means that you can:
Dual Pistols works best with Corruptors and Defenders that can employ Swap Ammo to layer greater values of a specific debuff on opponents-- they also receive better values than Blasters do. It seems that a lot of the Dual Pistols complaints stem from what I call "Willpower Syndrome," for if a new set doesn't obliterate every previous set in raw performance, either damage or survivability, then it's clearly gimped. People complained about Shield Defense for months until the realized how (over)powered it was with heavy IO investment. Now they're cool with it. I'm glad that Dual Pistols isn't blatantly overpowered relative to previous abilities. We have enough power creep in this game as is. Dual Pistols works. It offers the second best base accuracy of any set, and has a powerful single-target attack with 1.4 base accuracy. It offers good DPE, and has a huge spectrum of secondary effects that indeed provide significant game play value-- perhaps being better suited for buffing/debuffing classes. It also happens to provide the most utility while being lower-middle of the pack in raw damage. And check out those PvP numbers... |
Pistols is a very solid blaster set.
I didn't mean to say the set was gimped.
I meant to say my dp/elm build is gimped
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Those secondary effects are a fair bit weaker than other sets. Sure you get to choose which one to use, but I'm not so sure a choice of three lower powered special effects is better than one reliable one. Plus you don't actually have four choices if you care about damage... you either use incendiary (if you plan to use AoEs) or standard (if you are using Piercing Roinds on a single target).|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Dual Pistols works. It offers the second best base accuracy of any set, and has a powerful single-target attack with 1.4 base accuracy. It offers good DPE, and has a huge spectrum of secondary effects that indeed provide significant game play value-- perhaps being better suited for buffing/debuffing classes. It also happens to provide the most utility while being lower-middle of the pack in raw damage. And check out those PvP numbers...
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Dual Pistols is probably a nice Defender and possibly Corruptor set since those ATs get fairly strong secondary effects. The Blaster versions of those secondary effects, on the other hand, are hard to even notice in many cases... certainly not worth being the lowest damage Blaster set in the game. It a very pretty set, but a Blaster's primary mitigation is killing things fast, not some tiny -recharge or -damage debuff, and DP doesn't do that very well. It isn't a horrible set, it's just a tad weak... kind of like Electric Blast (which is another set that is better on ATs with higher debuff modifiers).
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Hold on... trying to breathe....|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Oh, but they are. You hold one demon in each hand and squeeze their necks to make them shoot fire out of their nostrils. It's exactly the same.
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...phew...
Funny stuff, especially if you imagine the "tortured rubber ducky" sound effect that must inevitably erupt from your demons as you flip through your attack chain!
Just be careful you squeeze their necks and not their bellies. Backfires are hell.
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As someone who has returned to the game after a few years off, my experience has also been mostly positive. True, I like to gripe about some class balance issues (Trick Arrow), but in general I'm impressed at the effort they're putting in. From IOs and the Black Market/Wentworths, the addition of new power sets, missions, animations, you name it, this game has evolved and grown positively more than any other MMO out there.
And while the balance isn't perfect, I will say that this is a game that basically has about a thousand different classes, if you count each power choice combination separately (and you should, since they all play so differently). Balance in a thousand combinations is a practical impossibility, but CoX is close enough to have it be fun. And those thousand combinations keep the game endlessly enjoyable - no one has played them all.
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I'm going to agree with Seizure here. Even as it has been said before that on Blasters, the debuff values are low, the fact that you can change the damage types on the fly makes them useful. For what it's worth, on my DP/Ice, I switch between Lethal and Incendiary Ammo to take advantage of Pistols' -def and Piercing Rounds -res, and can go Cryo if I absolutely need to stack -speed and -rech (though usually not the case, esp. with Shiver). Freezing Touch and Cryo Ammo'ed Suppresive Fire can hold bosses, and both can be slotted with Basilisk's Gaze for the 7.5% recharge bonus.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Do you honestly think that Dual Pistols is gimped, or is that just hyperbole to elicit a response? The breadth of secondary effects we receive through Swap Ammo means that you can:
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Granted, we prefer overall efficiency to specific utility ("situational powers"), and if DP is really multiple permutations of specific utility in lieu of damage as is being implied, it is fair for the playerbase to say something about it. But because it's got tools to enhance specific primaries, secondaries, other powers, or even some playstyles more generally, then we should really be more open to it being a very unique powerset in that regard.
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Except that Electric Blast's endurance drain isn't affected by any modifiers. A Defender will drain exactly as much endurance as a Blaster will.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
kind of like Electric Blast (which is another set that is better on ATs with higher debuff modifiers).
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But a solo Defender's damage output is low enough that the end drain has time to become useful. Especially if using a debuff and/or endurance draining Primary to keep the Defender alive long enough to make it significant. Which i guess isn't really high praise for the usefulness of endurance drain as much as it is a comment on low Defender damage/endurance efficiency.|
Originally Posted by Ethric
Except that Electric Blast's endurance drain isn't affected by any modifiers. A Defender will drain exactly as much endurance as a Blaster will.
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Edit: Back on topic. Minor quibbles about things like Electrical Blast aside, i agree with the OP wholeheartedly and i never even left the game.
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It's a good thing it isn't the lowest damage Blaster set in the game.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
Those secondary effects are a fair bit weaker than other sets. Sure you get to choose which one to use, but I'm not so sure a choice of three lower powered special effects is better than one reliable one. Plus you don't actually have four choices if you care about damage... you either use incendiary (if you plan to use AoEs) or standard (if you are using Piercing Roinds on a single target).
Dual Pistols is probably a nice Defender and possibly Corruptor set since those ATs get fairly strong secondary effects. The Blaster versions of those secondary effects, on the other hand, are hard to even notice in many cases... certainly not worth being the lowest damage Blaster set in the game. It a very pretty set, but a Blaster's primary mitigation is killing things fast, not some tiny -recharge or -damage debuff, and DP doesn't do that very well. It isn't a horrible set, it's just a tad weak... kind of like Electric Blast (which is another set that is better on ATs with higher debuff modifiers). |
Hail of Bullets could use some tweaking, and Empty Clips is a bit underpowered. Otherwise, it's fine, IMHO.
I'll chime in and in keeping with the spirit of the OP's post, I've been pretty pleased with the devs efforts as well. They continue to keep my subscription and I continue to play with different powerset combinations.
Dual Pistols is just plain fun for me and while there may be some debate in certain quarters about dps, endurance costs, etc etc....there is no doubt in my mind, I've enjoyed the experience to date with my Dual Pistols blaster.
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Sorry, second-lowest.|
Originally Posted by Reiska
It's a good thing it isn't the lowest damage Blaster set in the game.
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At least all these people playing the set will hopefully give the devs lots of solid information when they're datamining so they can give the set the buffs it needs sooner rather than later.
Dual Pistols is a very flashy set, and I've gotta give props to the dev team for making it look good and giving it a "gimmick" that differentiates it from other weapon-based sets. Unfortunately as far as numbers go it just doesn't add up, which is something that can be addressed.
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For what it's worth, I'm having fun with Dual Pistols. Of course, "having fun" is everything but constructive criticism and won't fix any balance issues, so I'll leave that to the helpful number-crunchers of the forum.
I agree. It's very hard to come up with a powerset that "feels new." Even more difficult to come up with ATs that don't follow the mold of -- Priest/warrior/rogue/wizzard roles... but they came up with the CoV ATs that have new and different play concepts. Dual Pistols has a new gimmick with ammo swap. I personally feel they need to make the Ammo swap more significant as it's pretty inconsequential as it is... but conceptually it's a new and interesting aspect to the game.
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i concur!
i've been in and out of CoH since beta and i just resubbed after the DXP weekend. having played so long i have to say that right now is the best time i can recall in CoH history.
just seeing all the variety in the game, the wonderful new colors making old sets and concepts fresh and new again, and how fun the game is without being overly punishing or trying to drag out my gameplay experience artificially.
i really feel like Paragon Studios is not only taking good care of the game, but they're going beyond the custodial and really taking CoH to places both new and anticipated to make it a contemporary MMORPG.
i love CoH and happily still consider it, IMHO, the only MMORPG worth playing.
three cheers for CoH and Paragon Studios!
I recently returned from a break that was at least three months maybe longer and I just wanted to congratulate the developers and give a spot for other people to post some great things they've been seeing. What brings this up? You may have guessed it, dual pistols.
I've been waiting for this set ever since someone mentioned to me on the boards 3-4 years ago how awesome it could possibly be. When I heard we could have access to it I tried so hard to resist but I ended up watching some of the animations on youtube. The temptation grew a bit more; the animations were just so freaking glorious to watch. Lots of gun twirling and body movement just like my imagination assisted by many watchings of Equilibrium (one of the best pistol weilding thriller movies ever!) had conjured the set up to be.
But it was still a shooter set so it was still gonna be lethal damage right? It wasn't long till I found out I was wrong. The ammo swaps called to me. No more mindless button mashing. I could see myself switching ammo on the fly in the middle of fights to take multiple enemies out.
Well it wasn't long till I paid the money to get it early. I'm now at level 9 and having the time of my life.
But the real reason I made this thread wasn't just cause of Dual Pistols. This is a trend I've been noticing in the past couple issues with powersets. Dual blades, shields and some other new ones that I can't remember have all been designed to be very unique and not just carbon copies of another set with a different weapon. Dual blades also sported very cool animations that I liked even though I know everyone didn't. Also power customization and weapon customization were really great. I know when I was taking my /shield scrapper I had tons of fun stopping in icon once every few days to switch my shield.
So I just wanted to say thanks for doing great devs and I can't wait to see what kinda cool stuff you guys come up with in later issues. Post more cool stuff you want to say thanks for here if you want!