Anyone else never use IOs?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2010-03-04 21:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
On characters that are team-centric, the levels are all blowing past so quickly that I usually end up with a complete random mess of whatever I happen to have managed to scrape up in the moments between teaming, DOs, IOs, SOs whatever. It's pretty ugly and not thought out at all. If I'm more organised than usual, I'll hopefully have *something* equivalent to a full set of SOs that haven't gone grey yet. 
On characters that I mostly solo Blueside, at level 8 I'll turn off earning of XP for a bit, and then go and do a long AE arc. This'll usually gives me enough tickets, that I can turn into saleable random common salvage, to purchase level 11 set recipes and non-common ingredients for them at Wentworths, which I'll frankenslot (a 2 aspect set IO at level 11 is about equivalent to a -1 DO in total power but split between the two aspects). As I get more slots between there and the low 20s I'll fill them either with frankenslotted set IOs or common IOs at the highest level I can muster when I get the slot. Actual set bonus only come into play once I can slot level 27 or 28 set IOs. At that point I start building toward my final slotting, on the principle that once a set IO of level 27 or above goes in, I'm not going to want to replace it. I like to try to keep set bonuses around when exemped down rather than go for max power at level 50, so I'll generally attempt to get the lowest level set IOs at or above level 27, consistent with actually having the powers available.
On a similar characters Redside, stuff is harder to get on the Black Market so I'll start with DOs and then a mix of DOs and common IOs, until they can slot level 27 sets and level 30 common, when it'll be a mix of sets and common IOs. Again any set IO I slot at 27 or over will be considered permanent and won't generally be replaced. I'm not a big redside player tho'.
First off, I have a badger that has all normal IO recipes memorized. I don't need recipes to make IOs for my characters, only salvage and money.
I have zero purples.
I have one character with a few IO sets, which I did just to try them out.
Most of my characters are filled with normal IOs, except my newer characters. Salvage has been too expensive, and money is so easy to come by, that I just SO them out like in the old days.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Do not really use IOs myself either; one can get along without IOs just fine. Mainly its the "I want to be a PL/farm toon and take on +5's" crowd that are seeking to purple out their characters. Other than my main I really use IOs; just sell everything and laugh while withdrawling influence from my sales.
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
My DA page
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Originally Posted by Novamaiden
I know we're unlikely to convince you otherwise, you have your way that works. I can't go as far as Goat, figuring out everything i might need, filling all my purchase slots with bids for things i may need in 5 levels. But crafting inventions you need can be as quick and easy as visitng the market or a vendor to sell that stack of recipes and salvage you have. Take a few minutes between missions whenever it's convenient for you to stop by a university and see what you can craft. Don't waste time at the market if you don't want, i rarely do. Just craft from what you have on hand. If you're doing tasks around your level and fighting a mix of foes you'll have all the parts you need for enhancements of your level. And a few extra minutes at a uni saves you more time and trouble with expireing enhancements later. Then if you still end up with some empty slots or not getting what you need then buy regular enhancements to complete things. Don't bother wasting your time replacing every invention every time you can use the next level. The whole point is you don't have to, freeing you up to keep playing. Taking hours is an extreme method, you can still utilise inventions without going that far. This is more directed at people that don't use them than you specifically Samuel, but your post happened to stick out at me at the time. In summary, inventions doesn't have to be work if you don't want it to be.
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Or how about we just say that everyone plays her/his own way and leave at it that. I am in the same boat as Samuel, I do not plan. Just choose the powersets I want to play and be off to my goal of eventually getting level 50. If you choose to micromanage your character and spend time at a "store" then have fun. I do shop but it is called real life; games are played how I want to; with no planning and alot of fun.
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
My DA page
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I don't think people really wonder why someone wouldn't want to spend billions purpling out their slots. It's the people who won't even use Common IOs over SOs which cause the head-scratchers. Judging from this thread, folks all have their own justification for it and that's cool but purples don't factor heavily into most people's builds, period.
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Originally Posted by Juteboxhero
Do not really use IOs myself either; one can get along without IOs just fine. Mainly its the "I want to be a PL/farm toon and take on +5's" crowd that are seeking to purple out their characters.
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For me, it's easier not to. I don't play the Wentworth's minigame and get frustrated trying to buy the salvage I need (or trade in tickets, or whatever). It's just faster and easier to buy SOs, especially since money's not an issue for keeping them green.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
It's the people who won't even use Common IOs over SOs which cause the head-scratchers.
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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That's also one example during a time where the market is vastly not stable. I have gone through looking at buying certain salvage that was overly priced and every time I logged in, morning, day, night, it was still over priced. I do to a default go under what the last 5 listed and put bids much closer to what would consider reasonable. I have had at times caved and upped my bids because I wasn't getting any of what I wanted.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Again, this is all up to personal preference but I went last night at lvl 26 and put in the following bids:
8x lvl 30 Damage IO @ 1,000 8x Iron @ 500 8x Masterwork Weapon @ 1,000 I wasn't entirely optimistic because Masterworks were going for 25,000 (I think the weekend helped drive prices up) but by the end of the night when I was level 30, I had purchased everything for 20k. Throw in the creation costs and I still saved about 75% versus buying eight lvl 30 SOs and these will never go red on me. I had actually slotted up all new SOs at 27 because I knew I wanted to play all evening and try to hit 30+. A full array of SOs at that level cost me right around a million influence. Saving 75% of that can mean a lot for a character who isn't being fed influence from an alt, etc. And, again, you don't have to spend another 1.3 at lvl 35 and 1.75 million at level 40, etc. I don't personally care how other people enhance themselves but some people who think it's too much of a hassle/expense might find they can save a lot of time and influence by taking the plunge to at least common IOs. |
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
50K is the "buy it now" price.
There's an easier way. Even at that price, you only have to pay 50K once. And then you wind up with an enhancer you never have to worry about again. I think objectively, you would spend less time on the IO. You'll definitely spend less money. |
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That's assuming you don't WANT to upgrade your enhancements, which I actually do. One of the chief problems I've always had with SOs isn't availability, cost or bother, but rather the fact that once I hit 22, that's as strong as my enhancements were going to be. If I could only slot one endurance reducer in a power, that's as much reduction as I was going to get for the next 28 level. With Inventions, this isn't the case. Inventions grow stronger as levels increase, so placing one at, say, 25 and forgetting about it is, to me, missing the entire point of Common Inventions.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
50K is the "buy it now" price.
There's an easier way. Even at that price, you only have to pay 50K once. And then you wind up with an enhancer you never have to worry about again. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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truthfully, I find using the set IOs ups my enjoyment of playing a toon so much more.|
Originally Posted by Street_Wolf
I know when I9 rolled out and brought inventions, I was excited, but yet, I never got into to them. It might be because at the time, all I had was my 2 high level mains and because I didn't feel like remaking their builds to use IOs. I have this feeling where if I use them, I want to go through from the beginning with a new character and work my way up to using them, but that just hasn't happened.
To this day, I still can't get into them. It seems to take an exorbitant amount of time to make any sort of headway on buying the salvage for a decent IO set, to get a recipe at a decent price, and after all that to make sure that I have enough left over Inf to actually MAKE the stupid thing. And after all that, I feel like the bonuses just aren't worth it. In fact, I don't even craft normal IOs for the same reasons basically. Am I weird? I know I can't be the only one who's perfectly content to just slot out SOs. (My idea of progress is to just make all my SOs level 50++ using the ancient enhancement fusing system that no one ever touches anymore.)  |
That said it takes more than just IO sets for the toon to be fun.
If all you do is play to get to 50, then never touch the toon again. IOs really arent for you imo.
If you think "I dont have time to outfit all my toons" but have that one toon you love to play, even after it hit 50, and pull it out all the time...IO out that toon. You might have to work up to it being awe inspiring greatness, but that's the one to focus on.
If your the type who has billions and billions and you still dont want to IO out the toon. >.> Can you give me a billion? I'm on Virtue Server. Global same as the forum name ^_^
Also, purple sets are indeed great! But really, they're not ALL THAT! I've seen some heavily purpled builds, with people just doing terrible, because they think PURPLE = BEST.
Purple sets are nice. But they're nice for the +RCH for the most part, and if you can't stay standing...
WP/ Tanker for instance. Purples are the LAST thing they need, if they even need them (imo anyways )
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
The invention system is still new and shiney for me. I am coming back after about a three or four year hiatus from the game and really like all the new options you have available to toons to improve themselves with the system. One of the biggest things I like about how invention sets are handled in this game is that anyone can get them if they want to. Between random drops, a few easy WW techniques and Merits nothing is out of reach for anyone who wants them. It is all a matter if the individual in question wants to expend the effort to get what they want.
I have one toon, an Elec/SD scrapper (yes I did build him to farm :-D) that is totally IO'ed out except for one LoTG recharge. The build I use is a semi-budget build...cost me around 450-500 million total. The difference is amazing. The toon was semi-squishy before I IO'ed out. Now that I have my IO's that scrapper is soft-capped for all three posistions and I can run into +0/X8 spawns without blinking an eye in most cases. I also have like +20% damage, +38% Accuracy and +40% recharge (+47.5% when I get my last LoTG.) It does takes a lot of work and you dont need them to play the game but they do make a very noticable difference in your toon. The thing is, if you do a decent build you only have to do it once. Also, I would only do this with toons that I know I will keep playing regularly after I hit 50 with them.
That said, most of my other toons have a mix of SO's, Invention IO's and a handful of Hami's. There are a few other toons that I have that I really want to IO out eventually, but most will be fine with SO's. I'm lucky enough to be in a SG that "pays" you for staying in SG mode up by having bins full of lvl 30 Invention IO's for you to use as you level up. Not having to worry about upgrading your SO's every few levels is a big plus for me. My toons outside of that SG mainly just craft what recipes they find with whatever salvage they happen to have. As far as a time vs. effort reward I think that getting at least what IO's your toon gets and can happen to make is at least worth it. Also, if you get a set recipe for your toon and have most of the salvage already it is usually pretty cheap to make them. You can have more room for slotting options when you frankenslot a few dam/end, acc/recharge or whatever recipes.
I'm mostly with the OP on this.
Nowadays, though, I start slotting generic IOs once I hit 32 if only because at that point generic IOs are about as powerful as a permant +3 SO and from what I can tell, the higher level generic IOs aren't that much of an improvement anymore.
I have a grand total of one toon slotted with IO sets, with a build a friend of mine made for me. Making generic IOs is a small hassle, less so than re-slotting every five levels to me, but gathering up the materials and recipes for IO sets on the market was significantly more effort than is worth to me. Yeah, the results are noticable, but ultimately I just care about going pew pew and watching the peoples fall down.
I used to look with envy with people whose set bonus list was nigh-endless, but nowadays I'm comfortable with just using generic IOs. But hey, that's why CoH is so fun, no? The number-crunchers have their IO sets and simpler players like me can use SOs/generic IOs without being gimped or useless and everyone gets to have fun.
Call me old school, but I still slot SOs. I haven't been able to get into making IOs. It's just too complicated for a blond like me. ;-)
I love playing the market, so I have vast amounts of influence, but I think crafting is very boring.
After thinking about it for a long time, this is what I do for a toon:
lvl 12 = I start buying basic IOs for every slot, but I do it slowly while trading, so it takes quite a while.
This is repeated at every 5 levels and I am not unhappy to run at lower level IOs if I have not hade the time to underbid on enough basic IOs to slot the toon out.
If I need the toon (I have too many toons) quickly and its not properly slotted, I run off to the store to buy the SOs instead.
At 32 I try to have IOs everywhere and be more strict about it.
At 47 I start buying all the non-purple sets, keeping the powers to be purpled out filled with whatever is in them at the time.
At 50 I buy the purples.
I now have 15 lvl 50 toons, but its still a rare occasion when someone hits 50 so I am happy to spend 2-4 billions on the toon for the final slotting.
Even if I seldom play my non-farmer 50s, I want to see how well the toon can perform fully slotted out with sets... and I sometimes like to bring them out to relive the good time I had levelling up the toon.
In the end I can afford the purple slotting and its the biggest influence sink there is out there, so that's where I am going to spend my wealth.
When I started playing in 2008 I used to do a full set-slotting at lvl 32 but it grow too tedious and expensive to redo it at 47, so now I just do it at 47.
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What it does is establish a baseline of power you know you aren't going to dip beneath. You can enhance further at your leisure without concern that your enhancements are going to go yellow/red. I have characters in the 47-50 range who will make a lvl 50 DMG IO when I have the stuff in my pocket but I don't have to worry about still having some 35's filling slots.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Inventions grow stronger as levels increase, so placing one at, say, 25 and forgetting about it is, to me, missing the entire point of Common Inventions.
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I'm just a sucker for tweaking builds.
I promised myself with my Traps/Pistols defender that I wouldn't focus on set IOs, that I would just use common SOs and not even look at generic IOs.
Then I lucked out on a drop and had a shedload of inf and it all went downhill from there...
Started tweaking the build in mids and found out I could defense softcap myself to ranged damage, "awesome", I said to myself, "I'll get the expensive sets out the way and focus purely on that!"
However I lucked out with another drop, rather than just finishing off softcapping myself to range and leaving it at that I went back to mids to tweak. I found I could defense softcap myself to melee as well, "even more awesome...with tough and temp invulnerability I'm also rocking 70% resistance to smashing and lethal damage".
So it was slippery slope, now I've blown a shedload of inf and the build is so very nearly finished, just three more cheap sets, three more levels and I'm done...
i use so´s mostly now for pve. This game is not that hard
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I've not had a problem upgrading SOs ever since the Inventions system came out, because pushy people buy my salvage for millions. Easily enough to "buy it now" SOs, but not nearly enough to do the same to Common Inventions. With Inventions, it always has to be a major pain or staggered over several days.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
What it does is establish a baseline of power you know you aren't going to dip beneath. You can enhance further at your leisure without concern that your enhancements are going to go yellow/red. I have characters in the 47-50 range who will make a lvl 50 DMG IO when I have the stuff in my pocket but I don't have to worry about still having some 35's filling slots.
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And maybe that's just me, but I've no problem with my enhancements going yellow. I never let them go red because I always get a new stack when I hit the next milestone, so the only thing I have to worry about is a slight drop in performance, which I can just establish as my baseline if I REALLY had to.
Trust me, I'm the last person on Earth who's going to welcome MORE maintenance over less, but I'll take a little pain every now and then over the pain of death even once. Upgrading to a new level of Common Inventions is easily THE WORST thing I have to do in the entire game. This is the absolute upper limit of fiddly busywork I'm willing to commit to. Anything more than that gets filed under "dog."
And I'd pay money if anyone gets the reference.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Since the forums keep insisting on bringing me back several days into the past and refuse to acknowledge that I've read certain posts, I keep finding posts that I haven't actually read |
Originally Posted by Novamaiden
I know we're unlikely to convince you otherwise, you have your way that works. I can't go as far as Goat, figuring out everything i might need, filling all my purchase slots with bids for things i may need in 5 levels. But crafting inventions you need can be as quick and easy as visitng the market or a vendor to sell that stack of recipes and salvage you have. Take a few minutes between missions whenever it's convenient for you to stop by a university and see what you can craft. Don't waste time at the market if you don't want, i rarely do. Just craft from what you have on hand. If you're doing tasks around your level and fighting a mix of foes you'll have all the parts you need for enhancements of your level. And a few extra minutes at a uni saves you more time and trouble with expireing enhancements later. Then if you still end up with some empty slots or not getting what you need then buy regular enhancements to complete things. Don't bother wasting your time replacing every invention every time you can use the next level. The whole point is you don't have to, freeing you up to keep playing. Taking hours is an extreme method, you can still utilise inventions without going that far. This is more directed at people that don't use them than you specifically Samuel, but your post happened to stick out at me at the time. In summary, inventions doesn't have to be work if you don't want it to be.
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This idea is actually not too bad. Invent what I can whenever I pass by a university and dump everything else at the market, essentially getting a few free Inventions here and there. Huh... Not a bad idea. Not really something I can do at 37, since I can't wait a few levels for me to randomly get enough Inventions, but definitely something I can do at 47.
Cool
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Why is it a head scratcher? Its simplier and less time consuming to get SO's and as I have stated before I play the game to have fun. Standing around and trying to by that one elusive piece (salvage or recipe) to get that +2% in nose picking is just not fun. I work in real life, I crunch numbers in real life, and I ourchase product for my job in real life. I can not smack around baddies in real life, hence I log into real life. Clear now?|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
I don't think people really wonder why someone wouldn't want to spend billions purpling out their slots. It's the people who won't even use Common IOs over SOs which cause the head-scratchers. Judging from this thread, folks all have their own justification for it and that's cool but purples don't factor heavily into most people's builds, period.
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Head scratcher to me is those people PLing their characters to 50 then purple out every power and then whine becuase the game is boring and easy. But you play the way you want and I play the way you want.
Those threads that state "Why do people not do X becuase they are not playing right" is just plain moronic and pointless. Everyone is different and has their own playstyle; just remember that.
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
My DA page
I don't bother start to slot IO sets until level 39-40, and I don't touch common IOs until 47. Imho, you fly through the teens so fast it's not worth it to slot any more than drops, and SOs work fine for the 20's and most of the 30's.
Hell, using a lvl 50 Inv/NRG Tank that was left as a mule and only about 90% slotted with level 48-50 SOs (and nothing else), I was able to off-tank against Rommy at the end of the ITF a few weeks ago.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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Do you know how much time you can save with that +2%? Also, you save money on kleenexes.|
Originally Posted by Juteboxhero
Standing around and trying to by that one elusive piece (salvage or recipe) to get that +2% in nose picking is just not fun.
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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Agree with you on the first point, but disagree on the second. If IOs increase your enjoyment, but you don't play your 50s, why shouldn't you IO out your leveling toons? (A dozen 50s here, a few occasionally pulled out of retirement, all but one IO'd to the gills.)|
Originally Posted by BrandX
truthfully, I find using the set IOs ups my enjoyment of playing a toon so much more.
... If all you do is play to get to 50, then never touch the toon again. IOs really arent for you imo. |
I can't bear to think of running a character through its 20s, 30s, and 40s without the advantages of -kb, stealth (for "free" in terms of power choices), frankenslotting, and defense.
A seriously IO'd build in the 40s can mean you can survive your team going two different ways in a +4 Malta mission, aggro both the spawns yourself and drag them away from the corpses, and kill all but the bosses by the time your teammates rejoin you. For me, *that* is fun.
I love IOs. I think they add a much needed dimension and depth to the game, but more importantly to the character development and individuality.
I try and get level 25 IOs instead of SOs at 22 because I don't like having to swap them out every 5 levels. I then start planning a level 50 build (usually within my budget... thus no Numina's for me). And while I am leveling I start bidding and making the sets I need to reach my goals. A lot of times this is just frankenslotting and some nice needed bonuses, like recovery. And since I slotted all my powers at 22 with regular IOs I can spend all my influence on getting the sets.
I usually try and get all my Set IOs around level 40, since it feels like a decent trade off between power and cost.
IOs are also a mini game to me. Some people view them as work, but I think they are a lot of fun with a nice performance gain as a bonus when done. In fact, I spent the better part of the evening last night revamping my Claws/SR Scrapper to try and maximize her survivability and performance. The results were well worth the time, in my opinion. She is now Defense capped, has very good regen and recovery, and two build up procs to help boost damage. All my attacks have around 60% bonus to accuracy in addition to all the accuracy from set bonuses, and some nice recharge. All-in-all it was a very good makeover with very desirable effects. I was able to solo a group of three level 54 bosses in the Rikti Warzone and only had to use blue inspirations because I was running out of end (I know that is not a true RWZ challenge completion, but I was very happy with the results).
50 Fire/Kin Cont
50 Fire/Axe Tank
50 Spine/Inv Scrap
50 Eng/Dev Blast
50 Claw/SR Scrap
50 Emp/Dark Def
50 Eng/Elec Brute
50 Fire/MM Blast
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Usually I have a character build for level 50 that combines set bonuses and all that fun stuff. Once I hit 50 I start purchasing IO's to make such builds a reality. It's pretty much my excuse for playing level 50 characters, gotta get those IO's man.
Until then I typically just use SO's until around 35, at which point I slot for common IO's, and then upgrade them if I have the components/recipe.
At level 50 I slot out everything with lv50 common IO's, then build towards my desired set.
If during my leveling process I find that I'm using too much endurance, or I'd really like this power to recharge faster, or what have you, I'll frankenslot the power with some cheap IO that fufills what I need, and commit towards upgrading it until 35.
Considering I'm asking for advice in the first place, I still do stand by that statement: the Market is pretty difficult to learn for someone like me.
For example: I ask why Luck Charms are pretty expensive. I get the one-line answer "supply and demand". Okay, I ask for elaboration, since I don't understand how supply and demand alone can result in that price (ie how that price was determined and settled upon, instead of any other price higher or lower). And then the nastiness starts.
I suspect that it's because the Market Forum has encountered so many people with the attitude you mention that there's this sense of defensiveness. If I have to tread so carefully to avoid giving offense when I don't even know why or how I'm offending people, then it's not worth the hassle for what little benefit there is.
I don't know if this has changed since the decision I made to just give up on asking for advice, which was a few issues ago. I think the tipping point came when I was belittled, harangued, and insulted for allegedly accusing the Market Forum people of being evil market manipulators etc. when I was not even talking about the Market. It took about a couple of pages of me trying to figure out why I was being attacked, and being hurt and confused by the viciousness, before the other person suddenly went "oh wait, this isn't the argument I thought we were having, never mind".
EDIT: Again, I'm not saying that everyone in the Market Forum is like this. But the few who are tend to be loud enough and obnoxious enough that it is just not worth dealing with the entire section.
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