ATTN: Dev's - PvP 2.0 Proposed Changes and Fixes
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2010-03-01 24:11 in Everything about PvP
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| Maybe if you explained to me what about the /Traps Corr you had problems with I could help. It is very comparable to a /Dev, only a slightly different focus on debuff as opposed to self buffs. It is also more mobile than any /Traps MM due to higher HP more power selections, and less dependancy on Bodyguard mode. Again, my point was that too many dismiss what they have no actual experience with. If you are an exception... you are only that. |
I try to be nice. I try to be patient. But seriously dude, why are you still talking. Let me start by saying I have played /dev and I have played traps. Other than webnade they are completely different, its not even close. As for the more mobile part, traps really isn't about being mobile on a mm, and for the record the only place the corr has more hp is to narrow minded people who only think of the hp total in the bar. MMs have some of the highest hp in the game unless they are played by someone who is really really bad. Dependancy on bg mode for infinte more survivabilty seems like a pretty decent trade off.
Lets break it down like this. I see a trapper who has set up debuffs. I am on a blaster. I see a corr and I waste it in little to time from range while he sits there either phasing or healing. It won't take much of a chain to bring him down, even ioed and accoed. Phasing makes him useless. And the only real hope they have is either someone wanders in and sits there or they tp someone in who isn't moving. Either way this is counting on the other player to be bad, which is what you shouldn't be preparing for in pvp. You should be preparing for the best to be attacking you at your worst. This is what I have said to you and countless others like you for quite some time now. We get it, you can kill bad zone pvpers. Congrats, this does not mean you should be answering questions like you have figured out the mysteries of the universe and no one else has.
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| Yet you are not the only one left, and it is quite foolish to think so considering some get smarter by the day having never known Pre I13 PvP. Also, congrats on obtaining a solid Reputation. I stand behind it fully. Maintain it though, don't get caught up into thinking that offering help is the same thing as helping... such confusion causes rage in some when people don't agree 100% with the advice/help offered. This ego rage is counter-productive to "helping" more often than not. |
Listen to your own words. Offering help is not the same thing as helping. You are not helping anyone with your so called advice. There is a reason every person who has replied to any of your post save your one friend has told you over and over your advice is horrible, its because it is. I like that you want to get out there and let the voice of the 'gimp' set pvper out there. I will gladly point out again between barrier and myself we play more gimps than anyone else probably in game today. And we make them work far better than any of the results you posted. Hell since I brought it up the only real results/data you have posted to back up any claims that you have a clue are bad. Like real bad. Those are not the things you bring to a discussion to try to prove your point. Keep on rocking your ideas, just don't expect me or pretty much anyone around here to let it go unchecked. You post something decent we agree with I am sure you will have no problems with it not getting called out. But as long as you keep promoting the same message don't expect the replies to change.
At this point you are just posting to post, you really haven't even tried to be helpful since your intial burst of traps corr and tp = win post. You have managed to use insulting names and comments when you have not been greated with the acclaim you had obviously hoped for. I am sorry things didn't work out for you. But I admire your spirit to carry on in despite the complete lack of success. Perhaps you should try to learn some new stuff and post more help. Perhaps help people with builds when they ask and offer up truthful represntation of power sets. The community here is always willing to accept new people to step up and take the reins of leading new blood. We just want them to be leading them down the right paths.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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I read it all and figured that basically what you're saying is that you've never PvP'ed with a /Traps Corr... that you used a traps /MM to mess with Twixt back in the day... that you gathered all the info on the set from a MM perspective and convinced yourself that you knew of the set even on non MMs. I base this assumption on the ridiculousness of the Blaster vs /Traps Corr example you gave. Either I'm right, or you play your Trapper very poorly and could use some help. Either way... it's a topic to be continued in the appropriate thread if you so choose to do so. |
Originally Posted by ConFlict
Let me start by saying I have played /dev and I have played traps.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
Listen to your own words. Offering help is not the same thing as helping. You are not helping anyone with your so called advice. There is a reason every person who has replied to any of your post save your one friend has told you over and over your advice is horrible, its because it is.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
At this point you are just posting to post, you really haven't even tried to be helpful since your intial burst of traps corr and tp = win post. You have managed to use insulting names and comments when you have not been greated with the acclaim you had obviously hoped for. I am sorry things didn't work out for you. But I admire your spirit to carry on in despite the complete lack of success. Perhaps you should try to learn some new stuff and post more help. Perhaps help people with builds when they ask and offer up truthful represntation of power sets.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
The community here is always willing to accept new people to step up and take the reins of leading new blood. We just want them to be leading them down the right paths.
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I will offer something constructive and OP related if you like though. Here's hoping for objectivity.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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| . I mean look at arena atm... Emp Emp Blaster Blaster Blaster Blaster Sonic Kin... This is after we got options that allowed for the closest to I12 that you can get. Options that are preffered for lolserious PvP |
Is there any subject we can talk about where you will actually have a clue wtf you are talking about. Because this ain't it. I will let you know the reason for people wanting arena to be closer to i12. Because without it the box you want people to think outside of was even smaller. It took 2 ases to get a kill. Period, it was the only way possible. And while it may seem like they have very defined set ups they bring this only holds true with jump teams. Disruption based teams have wild varation. You may actually want to look into arena pvp before you comment on it again.
Also I am very anti-checkboxes. Its one of the reasons you don't hardly ever see me in the arena. I can do it, not that well but I can still do it. I just don't really like having to burn a dual build on an arena set up and another on zones. So please act like i am bad arean boi more.
See the difference here again is I actually know what I am talking about because I looked into it. Something it appears you do not ever do.
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| . Either I'm right, or you play your Trapper very poorly and could use some help. |
Anyone who thinks a traps corr is in any way more viable or survivable than a traps mm is so wrong I am suprised they can remember how to breath. Anyone who thinks a traps corr is more useful than a traps mm to a team be it arena or zone I would believe to suffer from the same affliction. You are as bad as a traps corr in pvp, and thats pretty damn bad.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Thoughts on a PvP merit system:
I'd like to see a merit system than is tied to the current Rep system in PvP. I 'd like one that would encourage newbie toons to get to 400, and one that encourages seasoned toons to stay at 400... or suffer lower gain.
Also, a merit system that is "free with admission" so to speak. One that rewards all roles in PvP and not just those played solely to get kills. This I think would help to bring in many new Pvper's because they may just feel that they don't have to redefine there entire role and/or purpose to get some sort of reward from participating. Not from simply enetring a PvP zone or arena, but from actively engaging in PvP.
The system would work as so:
Reputation system and timer remains as is.
Players would be flagged with a "PvP combat" status power when affected by or affectting opponents in PvP, and also when using certain ally powers on allies. The duration of this status should be reasonable and perhaps proportionate to the power used so that it accurately reflects those who stay in the fight as opposed to those who don't. (For Example an ally rez might yield longer "PvP Combat" status than a snipe... sorry base huggers)
A teammate's PvP combat status would NOT affect the player. A teammate's kill however would still affect their rep.
PvP merit awarded over time with the PvP reputation of a player affecting the timer and/or bonus. The higher the rep... the larger the merit reward. The lower the rep... the larger the incentive aka bonus.
PvP Merit would be redeemed at current Merit vendors under a new tab.
Rough Example:
At a Rep of 100, a first time gain of 200 PvP merits... and you gain 6 merits per 30 minutes of PvP combat.
At a Rep of 200, a first time gain of 150 PvP merits... and you gain 14 merits per 30 minutes of PvP combat.
At a Rep of 300, a first time gain of 100 PvP merits... and you gain 21 merits per 30 minutes of PvP combat.
At a Rep of 400, a first time gain of 100 PvP merits... and you gain 28 merits per 30 minutes of PvP combat.
Note: Merit gained could likely increase/decrease gradually, and not just at milestones.
This would encourage new players and toons to get get out there and PvP... It would encourage any new toon to get their rep up and in doing so reward them with helpful IOs or the inf. needed from selling to build better as they get better/optimized. Taking away the the pressure to be a killing machine just to get a IO, this system might also promote many to wander into PvP land, if only to make kills easy for the masses of stalkers/blasters already there. Of course the numbers could be adjusted, but I'd at least want the total of one-time merit bonuses to be worth a moderate value PvP IO. Farmable or not... getting to 400 should yield more than a badge imo.
This would also encourage the seasoned toon to stay at or near 400... for maximum reward while PvPing... while stepping up the standard of awesome... because instead of simply getting killshots with hopes of a drop, one would also have to stay in the fight to get the most out of merits.
I would not expect or request the IO drop rates to be changed.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Mr. Dahjee, sir, could you please tell me how to succeed at PvP with traps? I'm almost done with leveling my Traps/DP Defender. It is neither a corr or an MM, but I figure it is closer to the corr and you seem to know more about those than Con Man.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Hey I have an idea. How about Con gets his trapper toon and duels this nub on his? Eh? EH?
Dahjee likes to get destroyed over...and over....and over and over again.
It's like the song that never ends....
last word
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One of my focuses in the above post explained that Stalkers using sharks allows them to slightly exploit the risk vs reward system in pvp. I did not forget that throwing sharks came with a long animation time, but keep in mind that stalkers only come out of hide after most of the animation is complete. This makes the long animation time irrelevant to stalker survivability. Your argument would make more sense if the stalker AT had a normal stealth cap or if the stalker came out of hide as soon has he starts to animate throw shark. |
Originally Posted by black_barrier
the animation is still 50 minutes long. i dont think that can be extended.
but i disagree with the rest of the post. two AS's should bring down a tanker if both stalkers have BU up. there is minimal skill involved in WASDing like a pro. |
secondly, You must really hate tanks... as it is Tanks are not too useful most pvp scenarios. If a player were to bring one in an arena team match under your conditions, 2 stalkers can make said tank into a farm target lol. In other words, buffing AS like that would make tanks = free points for the other team making tanks even more useless.
Lastly, since most tanks are at at least 2400 hp if not at cap, your version of BU+AS would mean the one shot rule would almost always occur on squishie toons. This would mean stalkers would revert back to i9 damage levels (+ a few reds). Keep in mind that stalker AS prior to i13 had been concluded by the majority of the PvP community and devs as being OP'd. I'd have to conclude that this idea would not be a balanced compromise if they decide to look at balancing shark dmg.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Originally Posted by Neeto
...exploit...
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Anyone wanna cliffnotes this for me?
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SSDT|
Originally Posted by perilX
Anyone wanna cliffnotes this for me?
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Same ****, different thread
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Some good ideas.
Some bad ideas.
Dahjee trying to be right.
My typing to much.
You abusing your power in the pvpec.
Thats about all.
Git llamaed.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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all the more reason to think outside of it (the box)... ? |
Originally Posted by ConFlict
Because without it the box you want people to think outside of was even smaller.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
Anyone who thinks a traps corr is in any way more viable or survivable than a traps mm is so wrong I am suprised they can remember how to breath. Anyone who thinks a traps corr is more useful than a traps mm to a team be it arena or zone I would believe to suffer from the same affliction. You are as bad as a traps corr in pvp, and thats pretty damn bad.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Mr. Dahjee, sir, could you please tell me how to succeed at PvP with traps? I'm almost done with leveling my Traps/DP Defender. It is neither a corr or an MM, but I figure it is closer to the corr and you seem to know more about those than Con Man.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Hey I have an idea. How about Con gets his trapper toon and duels this nub on his? Eh? EH?
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"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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2 AS's will not kill a Tank unless they didn't build for HP or the Stalkers are running a ******** of reds or other +dam. You might get 1400-1500 off the crit portions of the AS (assuming you're running Build Up at the time, which will happen about 10 seconds out of every 30) but that still leaves probably another 1400 (and that's on a Fire or Elec without any Dull Pain-like power on top of their +HP bonuses/accolades) to make up through the rest of the damage and procs. Sure, you'll have them hurting, but two AS's won't drop a well-built Tanker.|
Originally Posted by Neeto
secondly, You must really hate tanks... as it is Tanks are not too useful most pvp scenarios. If a player were to bring one in an arena team match under your conditions, 2 stalkers can make said tank into a farm target lol. In other words, buffing AS like that would make tanks = free points for the other team making tanks even more useless.
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Tanks are good in zones because Fossilize is ridiculously good (especially when paired with Rage) and they've got a huge amount of HP.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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DUH! Con could do really well with a dual blades / dark brute too, or a dark/ice tank. Doesn't mean those are good toons. It means he's a good player. Good players can make bad toons work. But the fact remains - with good toons, they'd make them work even better.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
I believe given your skill, you'd be quite deadly in a zone with a /traps corr.
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He was talking about a hypothetical scenario that barrier suggested, where 2 AS's WOULD drop a tank. Which I agree, would be a bit much. That would mean 1 AS would basically own any squishy, and we'd be back to stalkers 1 shotting everything. Stalkers need help, but not that much.
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Originally Posted by macskull
2 AS's will not kill a Tank unless they didn't build for HP.
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scaling HP AS.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
He was talking about a hypothetical scenario that barrier suggested, where 2 AS's WOULD drop a tank. Which I agree, would be a bit much. That would mean 1 AS would basically own any squishy, and we'd be back to stalkers 1 shotting everything. Stalkers need help, but not that much.
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I agree to an extent. Good players can often make any set(s) work... because they know how not to die and recognize another's sets, tactics, strengths, and weaknesses sooner than most. |
Originally Posted by Supermax
DUH! Con could do really well with a dual blades / dark brute too, or a dark/ice tank. Doesn't mean those are good toons. It means he's a good player. Good players can make bad toons work. But the fact remains - with good toons, they'd make them work even better.
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My position is that it is far better for to coach others on how to be good PvPers so that they too can make any set/set work... Currently we spend more time telling others what to do and what powers to take/avoid. It's as if we are handing them a crutch to say "Stick with this and only this... and you will have a chance to be good." I've never been one to assume that a player new to PvP automatically means that that player is a retard. Ignorance is not the same thing as stupid... or Bad.
No Good Player I know... would ever admit to the fact that their skill is or was dependant solely on the advice of others. No, the peeps who are considered good for those reasons are simply defined as robots in my book.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
I agree to an extent. Good players can often make any set(s) work... because they know how not to die and recognize another's sets, tactics, strengths, and weaknesses sooner than most.
My position is that it is far better for to coach others on how to be good PvPers so that they too can make any set/set work... Currently we spend more time telling others what to do and what powers to take/avoid. It's as if we are handing them a crutch to say "Stick with this and only this... and you will have a chance to be good." I've never been one to assume that a player new to PvP automatically means that that player is a retard. Ignorance is not the same thing as stupid... or Bad. No Good Player I know... would ever admit to the fact that their skill is or was dependant solely on the advice of others. No, the peeps who are considered good for those reasons are simply defined as robots in my book. |
You don't actually read any of my help post it would seem.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
I do, and I've offerd my respect time and time again.
I think the problem lies in the fact that you disregard mine... based on something other than logic it seems.
[BTW: Did anyone even read the idea I posted for PvP merits?]
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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75%? More? Less?|
Originally Posted by black_barrier
scaling HP AS.
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I like the idea of AS scaling based on your HP as it means low-HP builds wouldn't get worked over quite so quickly (by AS at least, but that that point it might be more efficient to just throw 2 or 3 sharks) but it would take away some of the advantages that having higher HP has.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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This would make the stalker's corner stone attack very inconsistant. In some cases it would become underpowered and in other cases it would be OP. It's controversial at best and would definately be game breaking for many stalker players. However, if this did happen (which i rly don't think it would) Fight Clubbers would start using stalkers lol thats pretty ridiculous. Also attacking MMs with AS would be meaningless, when a normal attack in hide would be more effective.
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Originally Posted by black_barrier
scaling HP AS.
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Originally Posted by Neeto
This would make the stalker's corner stone attack very inconsistant. In some cases it would become underpowered and in other cases it would be OP. It's controversial at best and would definately be game breaking for many stalker players. However, if this did happen (which i rly don't think it would) Fight Clubbers would start using stalkers lol thats pretty ridiculous. Also attacking MMs with AS would be meaningless, when a normal attack in hide would be more effective.
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Just going to point out that only a small handful of stalkers even use as in this game any more. FCers already do use stalkers. Not going to say scaling as is the way to go though, but it defintely could use a little more bite. I know if they did give it a buff though that the raging amongst bad players would be epic.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
but i disagree with the rest of the post.
two AS's should bring down a tanker if both stalkers have BU up.
there is minimal skill involved in WASDing like a pro.