Discussion - Ultra Mode, Issue 17: Dark Mirror and Going Rogue!

I agree whole heartedly . Change is good and these changes will make the game even better for those who recently started playing to stick with it . And with new content designed for those with "50's " , hopefully they will rediscover their love for this game again . All around win in my book

That's right. I also collect money from my magical money tree so I can play CoH.

Get real. I don't power-level, I don't farm infamy, hell, I'm not even bothered by the stamina-less first twenty levels that some people seem to want to just skip past. And you know what? You're right. If you can just get everything in two button presses, it's no fun. It's unfulfilling. In fact, one of CoH's better features is adjustable difficulty settings. You can make sure your missions are challening, not too easy, but not frustrating either. Hell, I'm looking forward to the new endgame content and its promises of challenging content.

But here's what's puzzling me: You're talking about challenge and achievement, but in the same breath you explain just how easy it is now to get to 50. You're right there, too. Even if it took longer, it still wouldn't be difficult, it'd just take more time. Challenge is great, but can what is ultimately just an excercise in patience be called a challenge? Sure, I was genuinely happy when I dinged 50 the first time, I was also excited to try VEATs out, and I was happy when my Bane Spider dinged 50 half a year later, but ultimately I didn't feel all that differently about my MM and about my Bane dinging 50.

Oh, and before you call me out on that: I consider challenge and "hard work" two different things. Hard work is helping your friend who's moving out to carry furniture up and down the stairs. A challenge is beating your record in 100 meter sprinting. Hard work is something you do because it's the right thing to do and challenging yourself or taking on challenges is something you do that's personally gratifying.

I suppose in the end it's all purely semantic and pointless, but that's why it confuses me when people talk about "all their hard work" when talking about this game.

I would assume pre-order the Complete Collection. The wording was wierd, yes, but I would assume both are up for pre-order on March 2nd.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

*sigh* No, I'm not making any suggestions here... it's not a suggestions thread. And that's not the only phase I said they need to evaluate. PvP, Base Raids, Mission Arc Merits for non-arc holders, enhancing team dynamics to make it more desirable to team, etc. etc.

My complaint is about a vague I17 listing of features. In my opinion Content is what will help bring in and retain subscribers, not badges, emotes, graphics & UI. I'm not saying those phases are meaningless at all, if that's about to be assumed.

If I were to step outside the notion of being a current subscriber, what do I see appealing to me? New missions (content). Okay. Missions could be 2, it could be 20. They could take 5 minutes to absorb, they could take 5 hours to absorb.

They made it clear I'll be able to purchase "4" new stances and even named the costume sets I could purchase. Both which will give me about 2 seconds of content.

Look! I'm standing different! Look! I look different!

Again, clarifying due to my sarcasm. I'm for introducing new things like stances and costume sets. I'm not seeing emphasis on Content.

Please, please, please forgive me if I don't get excited about being able to stand there doing a new Emote after I got a new Badge while you look at me in Ultra Mode. That's not why I pay $ per month to play City of Heroes. I can get that same feeling from Sims. I pay to experience stories, content and team with others in a "super" setting.

I thought as a paying customer for 5+ years, I'd have the right to express my dissatisfaction with the I17 list and not be assaulted for it by what I considered a great community. Am I wrong?

Feel free to look back at ANY of my history of posts, I NEVER attack someone for complaints or the like unless I'm attacked first. If you don't like my dissatisfaction, ignore me and move on to reading the next post. I do. I don't think it's cool to impose on someone's opinion in an attempt to try and sway them to mine or belittle them because it doesn't fit my opinion.

All I'm asking for is for some hint of "content" other than "New Missions". Here's recent "Content" provided by the game:
Issue 10: Invasion (yes, still love the improvements to RWZ) - We got a great Co-Op TF, a pretty cool Raid feature, repeatable RWZ Missions, Vanguard Merits, roughly 4 arcs with 20 missions.
Issue 11: Stitch in Time - 4 new missions per side, and 3 minor TF/SFs that are soloable.
Issue 12: Midnight Hour - Both sides got an arc with 4 door missions to join the Midnighters (not counting the go to contacts or craft Wand/ cure Lost), repeatable Cimerora missions, and the still-popular Imperious Task Force.
Issue 13: Power & Resp. - Heroes got 3 arcs/11 door missions & Villains got 1 arc/2 door missions from Mercedes Sheldon (Midnighter's) and Heroes got 2 arcs/6 missions from Daedalus, Villains got 1 arc/9 missions from Sister Airlia.
Issue 14: Architect - none
Issue 15: Anniversary - Dr. Kahn TF (5 missions) / Barracuda SF (5 missions)
Issue 16: Power Spectrum - none

Yes, we've gotten a slew of cool game features in the mix of all this... but as players... seriously... when we talk about this game to outsiders who don't play... out of that list... how much is something to brag about to make outsiders want to join our game?

I almost guarantee that ITF is on top of the list, followed by LGTF or something RWZ-related. I doubt there's much else on that list to write home about, correct? Yes, the other content is great to experience and it's not subpar by any means... but they're not "Hooks" to draw outsiders in (at least I don't hear them desired to be repeated on channels).

So... when someone says the last thing we need is more Co-Op, I look and see that "content" being the most popular experience as of late. No, I don't want Villains doing TFs or Hero content or vice versa... but I do feel 2 Co-Op is not OMG2much!

It's the community/interaction with others that will drive this game and keep it above the competition. Dispute it or not, it's lacking as of late. If "New Missions" is on par with Issue 13, we're looking at another issue of self-absorbed soloing for badges, hanging around AP doing emotes, and all the while being able to do it in Ultra Mode with some UI updates...

Oh, and one more thing. Epic Power Pools at 20 now?

See, this is where it's skewed.
If you were to try and brag about the game to an outsider who has never played it before...
Well, all the complaints are coming from people who already play. From veterans who have done all the content before.

A new player will have done none of the content. So they have a virtual tonne of stuff to go through, before they even think about exhausting it.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Check again (my edit was to fix mispelling of Imperious) but I never said "...never played it before..." I was referring to both former and never played.

For the record, I really feel Going Rogue is going to be awesome / over-the-top and bring people in... it's just these Issues lately are lacking on the "Content" aspect for us veteran players (again, that's my opinion, not fact).

There's little to interest me in PvP, AE or soloing my arcs alone (I prefer to team in an MMO)... so (yes, I know the fault is my own) the only worthwhile thing for me to do as of late is repeat TFs/SFs for Merits (again, prefer to team... and I desire Merits for character progression). So, I question myself as how can "I" convince anyone outside the game (I have 9 friends unsubscribed) to try it out again? They're way too casual for TFs/SFs.

What do I say? Ummm, come play the MMO to solo arcs because you'll want Merits if you don't TF/SF. You don't get Merits for partaking of someone else's arcs. Ummm, PvP is dead, there's no point to it and little reward for it. Oh, careful playing AE... just do Dev Choice or HoF cuz you'll get screwed out of rewards if you play someone's creative and awesome arc cuz farmers exploited the system and they were able to nerf that real, real quick... but in 5 months, they can't aid the ones who use the system correctly to tell stories. Oh, but look at what we got coming in April for you so you have something to look forward to for content.... oh wait... nevermind.

Well said.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I do beg to differ on that. If they advertise a new/improved Cathedral of Pain correctly with a fun system, I would put money on new & former players coming to check it out. If it's repeatedly fun and a strong system, they'll stick around and occassionally check out bits and pieces of the rest of the game.

Not in CoH, but in UO and WoW... I PvPed quite a bit. Maybe "casually" - "moderately". I dabbled in it here at "City of Heroes", but it's so pointless and unfun for me. I do have an urge to break from TFs/SFs, etc once in a while and either beat down or get beat down by others.

If a "Cathedral of Pain" system were on par with the fun factor of ITF, LGTF, etc... it could be a draw to the PvPers who've yet played or formerly played. Subscribers = $ as ya know. Same with Zone & Arena PvP.

PvP if handled correctly can form a strong community and be a very attractive feature, even if there's no "carrots" to make some players participate in on it.

I would hope PvPers would just expect a great system in which to PvP with very less effort put into the development of content for it over the PvE aspect. If the game is largely in part focused on story, PvPers would have to understandably (since they bypass creativity of the story writers) go in knowing that. Unless, there was a system of story-telling to that PvP system.

UO, the first (debatable) MMO is still going (debatable) strong enough with outdated graphics after 12+ years. Their community is approx 70% PvE, 30% PvP from my last experience there. That PvP community is strong, because their system is fun. Heck, it's probably one of the three best MMO PvP systems out there based on feedback I read on forums.

I would love it if City of Heroes could be mentioned that high in that system. I would love it if people say, yea... I play CoH/V cuz it has a fun and balanced PvE system with great stories and teaming, and man... the PvP there is off the hook!

I'm not stupid, I'm sure as a successful company that Paragon Studios would love the same reputation.

I'm hoping that this and other lacking systems in "City of" are about to get their much needed boosts. Just waiting for the word...

Then, I suggest have the CoP/PvP system and PvE system aid, but not rely on, each other through small perks by participating in both maybe.

I don't know. I'd hafta really, really, really analyze the other systems out there as to what is successful and what is not. It's a different animal of sorts with CoX sorta. UO & WoW from experience could be unbalanced due to gear or lack thereof for the casual to jump in and have fun.

Maybe CoX is onto something with the "diminishing rewards on sets" as a solid foundation for something forthcoming, maybe not.

In my opinion, we should be able to progress XP-wise in PvP though. Less than the AE XP though, since we do indeed want to encourage participation on "developed content" primarily. (no sarcasm)

Okay, I'm done venting. I'm just gonna go back to reading posts again when I'm here for a while until something really irks me again or gets me pumped.

You guys rock, peace out!

So unlocking them at 20 would provide potential more challenges then for some people. Sounds more like an argument for early unlock than against.

Well, we're not totally sure they're doppelgangers yet - the wording and Issue title seem to hin that they are though

The Dual Pistol head start is not part of I17 - it's tied to pre-ordering GR.

Right here.

All three of my 50's took about 2 years to achieve. Two of them even had the benefit of XP smoothing. One of them even had RestXP in his favor. My Elec/Elec blaster is now 41 and is over two years old.

I'm curious to see the data mining and interpretation of that was on the devs side.

You could invite them to join you in Oro flashback arcs -- shorter ones can be good, casual fun, and the merits are awarded to the whole team. (And with the new sidekicking rules, those under 50 can still earn XP while exemplared, etc.)

Angel Red
"We're heroes. Fighting injustice is the thing we do." ~Rebel Scum

So because you have alt A.D.D. the rest of us have to have our challenges nerfed? nice...

Leveling is a choice, if you choose to goof around in pocket d, then hey, more power to you!

But, you could also choose to go level instead and lower the time needed greatly.

meh, its a dumb argument really. I got better things to do.

Might not play as often as you either. Especially since I'm trying to keep my game-time on the weekends. I suppose exemplaring the majority of TF's I've done hasn't helped either. Avoiding PUGs like the plague and soloing at least half the time likely doesn't help my XP gain. On some of my newer characters I've actually turned the difficulty down to boot.

And I'm still not seeing the nerf to the challenge of the game, nor anything really happening than a one-time reward moving location. With the usual exceptions (time strapped folks, altaholics, etc), hitting 50 is an inevitability, not an achievement.

I don't think there's a badge for speed-leveling, though maybe there *should* be one (or just some sort of record you can show off). Maybe include other stats like including how much of your character's career was spent with what difficulty settings (probably missions accomplished versus actual time). Sort of like a levels 1-50 baseball card? Or break it down into 10-level increments (1-10 = rookie, 11-20 = little leagues, 21-30 = minors, 31-40 = majors, 41-50 = whatever)? Something like that.

I'm not a baseball fan, so sorry if I screwed the references up. But you get the idea (I hope). Seriously - I would prefer that (if you go by Bartle) EATs aren't tied to strictly Achiever activities. Give the A's something that really shows, "Hey, I'm really badass" as opposed to something that can really be obtained regardless of skill or skill-lessness, long or short time spent, etc. An *EAT is something that can be enjoyed by S, E, A and K's, after all, but right now getting one (fast) is definitely an A activity (E's will get there eventually ).

Actually, now I'm curious: is there a correlation between someone being pro- or anti- *EATs at 20 and their Bartle score...

edit: I'm a SEAK if anyone's curious.

They've not said - it could be the "and more" part if they have time to do it, or they could push it back to the post-GR Issue.

I agree, the toons i have the most fun playing are my 50's. The problem is deciding which one to play when I log in.