Discussion - Ultra Mode, Issue 17: Dark Mirror and Going Rogue!
By
0verload,
Posted on: 2010-02-09 10:50 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
NOTE: this is my personal compass regarding this game and while people will agree with me there will be some who will not so plz dont flame me just because you think im wrong explain to me why you think im wrong period. also do to some people who seem to misunderstand the word VET im useing it as a form of time nothing more.
If people want to flame me for stating that i have been playing c.o.x for 5 years then that there problem not mine.
i think i see the problem where at lest it concerns me so im dropping the word 50th and replacing it with the word VET. also im thinking of using this my personal new risk VS Reward is Time Vs Enjoyment.
Example: As a 5 year vet of the game im so happy that there is new ways to play plus a new end game system that going to be put in place. although im thinking my risk Vs Reward maybe to high for this game. Since i have played this game for 5 years the risk maybe to great for my enjoyment of going rogue.
I know that some will disagree with this that fine but i feel that is my insight lately concerning why so many people have trouble staying in a game longer than one year. this will also help me explain to people why i have such a hard time playing certain stuff in game.
so with that in mind let me go back to I17
Ultra mode: Yes? it will make things look good but im not sure it will get me to play more?
New badges: THIS really depends on HOW the badges are implemented in game if it is Kill 5000 then meh
new missions: need a lot more info
new player emotes: that really depends
Epic Archetypes now available at level 20: dont really care
Improvements and additions to Mission Architect: OK this has my vet self looking interested and has reduced the risk to myself that this would just be another meh issue
Enhancements to UI and game systems: don't really care
And more: yes?
so personal:
risk: 80% that i will not play but wait for GR
VS
Reward: 20% that i will play it because it looks interesting enough to play
NOTE: this is my personal compass regarding this game and while people will agree with me there will be some who will not
sincerly yours:
Bzald of TopTen
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I hate to break this to you, dude, but no one cares that you have more levels or 50s or badges or vet rewards or whatever. We are not impressed by how big and shiny your e-peen is. It doesn't mean as much as you'd like it to.|
Originally Posted by bzald
One of the things i would like to see is maybe some way to tell the differents between char's a lvl 10 should look/feel different than a lvl 1 now while the player can tell this can you the player looking at another player tell that?
i dont know how that would be done i though maybe through looks but since 90% of the looks are open to anyone that dont work too well. oh well |
I understand why you'd think that; I play this game too. The MMO and comic-book genres are founded on power fantasy. But I think you'll find that everyone wants to live out their own, not be your admiring audience.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
I hate to break this to you, dude, but no one cares that you have more levels or 50s or badges or vet rewards or whatever. We are not impressed by how big and shiny your e-peen is. It doesn't mean as much as you'd like it to.
I understand why you'd think that; I play this game too. The MMO and comic-book genres are founded on power fantasy. But I think you'll find that everyone wants to live out their own, not be your admiring audience. |
Well said! /e APPLAUSE
�One of the best lessons children learn through video games is standing still will get them killed quicker than anything else�
OH, totally forget even to mention this before....
SIGN ME UP! WHERE IS THE BUY NOW BUTTON.
*note to self buy my character slots.....
�One of the best lessons children learn through video games is standing still will get them killed quicker than anything else�
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WOW what brought that on you did read everything right? oh and you really should not use such loaded words because someone might get pissed of and flame you.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
I hate to break this to you, dude, but no one cares that you have more levels or 50s or badges or vet rewards or whatever. We are not impressed by how big and shiny your e-peen is. It doesn't mean as much as you'd like it to.
I understand why you'd think that; I play this game too. The MMO and comic-book genres are founded on power fantasy. But I think you'll find that everyone wants to live out their own, not be your admiring audience. |
such words are i hate to break it too you, no one cares, e-peen, your admiring audience all those are just flame words in your sentence. i mean you even said i understand why you think that so why is the rest of it loaded words?
NOTE: Why does that bother you so much? why such hostile action is it because you don't want to look different because you are higher lvl?
sincerly yours:
Bzald of TopTen
Something else I thought about the EATs unlock level dropping to 20 - right now, they're just about the only exclusive level 50 bonus/content in the game - but GR is bringing in an entire new endgame system, so the need to have EATs as the "perk" for hitting 50 will be replaced by something larger and more complex.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But still?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Something else I thought about the EATs unlock level dropping to 20 - right now, they're just about the only exclusive level 50 bonus/content in the game - but GR is bringing in an entire new endgame system, so the need to have EATs as the "perk" for hitting 50 will be replaced by something larger and more complex.
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Do you really think the average new player will have the skills required to build/play an EAT at cape level?
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Snixnix - Humanform Warshade
Various others.
@debtlover
some of the average players barely can play their first character when it hits 50...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Something else I thought about the EATs unlock level dropping to 20 - right now, they're just about the only exclusive level 50 bonus/content in the game - but GR is bringing in an entire new endgame system, so the need to have EATs as the "perk" for hitting 50 will be replaced by something larger and more complex.
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Originally Posted by Debtlover
But still?
Do you really think the average new player will have the skills required to build/play an EAT at cape level? |
sincerly yours:
Bzald of TopTen
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And yet look at the MMOs where people look different as they level - sure, at L50 you look much more impressive than you did at L1, but you also look like most of the other people who are L50. Personally I'd rather stick to CoH's system where you never see anyone who looks like you, and there's no elitism based on appearance/equipment. It's ironic you started your post with the word WOW - that MMO just about sums up my point.
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Originally Posted by bzald
NOTE: Why does that bother you so much? why such hostile action is it because you don't want to look different because you are higher lvl?
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Ooooo Oooooo can we please get an issue 17 trailer? Like to show what doppleganger is and like Ultra Mode in action again? :P
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Agree. Getting a level 50 VEAT is basically, "Okay, you're pretty much done with that character. Go roll a shiney new alt!"|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Something else I thought about the EATs unlock level dropping to 20 - right now, they're just about the only exclusive level 50 bonus/content in the game - but GR is bringing in an entire new endgame system, so the need to have EATs as the "perk" for hitting 50 will be replaced by something larger and more complex.
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Alting = old "end game"
Is GR confirmed to have the new end-game option? I know its something being worked on, but wasn't sure if we'd see it in GR, i18, or some later update...
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Originally Posted by Debtlover
But still?
Do you really think the average new player will have the skills required to build/play an EAT at cape level? |
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Yep. The divorce between appearance and ability is one of my favorite things about COH. Being able to have most all all the options (capes, wings, auras, etc) in CO at creation is one of my favorite things about that game. Since the ball is back in Paragon Studio's court, I'd like to see them go even further than that! For example, I can understand keeping somethings gated (whether I like it or not is a different matter), but being able to unlock things per account or getting a redeemable "token" for another character would be great (unlock a Tommy Gun or Tech Wings with one character, use that "token" for a new character at creation). Stuff like that.
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Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
And yet look at the MMOs where people look different as they level - sure, at L50 you look much more impressive than you did at L1, but you also look like most of the other people who are L50. Personally I'd rather stick to CoH's system where you never see anyone who looks like you, and there's no elitism based on appearance/equipment. It's ironic you started your post with the word WOW - that MMO just about sums up my point.
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Thats kinda my point is it not?| I've seen more than a few stupid, awful Khelds and SoA's. Getting an *EAT has no bearing on player skill and everything to do with XP earned. Its not like the game gives you a quiz and only gives you an *EAT if you get a B or higher. There's no way to guarantee someone will have the skills required to build/play an *EAT at 50. |
At least getting to 50 gives you practice on power choice selection and slotting.
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Snixnix - Humanform Warshade
Various others.
@debtlover
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ok that makes sense and was not my attent to be elitism by any means but i guess it just came out that way.
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Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
And yet look at the MMOs where people look different as they level - sure, at L50 you look much more impressive than you did at L1, but you also look like most of the other people who are L50. Personally I'd rather stick to CoH's system where you never see anyone who looks like you, and there's no elitism based on appearance/equipment. It's ironic you started your post with the word WOW - that MMO just about sums up my point.
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sincerly yours:
Bzald of TopTen
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Let me rephrase, then...|
Originally Posted by Debtlover
Thats kinda my point is it not?
At least getting to 50 gives you practice on power choice selection and slotting. |
level =/= skill
veteran's status (ie, length of time playing) =/= skill
A good player, especially one that decides to educate themselves (through guides, Paragonwiki, just listening*, etc) and is playing with people willing to help/teach them (last I checked we still had one of the best communities for a game ^_^), should be able get a hold of *EATs (and the game) pretty quickly.
*This is assuming they're not getting bad advice from people or are playing with those "there's only one right way to play/slot/etc" mentality folks.
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I agree entirely, but why sour a new player on khelds by giving them an at they have no idea how to handle? The drop to 20 is not my main issue. My main issue is now "What will be the reward for a new player once they hit 50 for the FIRST time?"
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Originally Posted by Psyte
Let me rephrase, then...
level =/= skill veteran's status (ie, length of time playing) =/= skill A good player, especially one that decides to educate themselves (through guides, Paragonwiki, just listening*, etc) and is playing with people willing to help/teach them (last I checked we still had one of the best communities for a game ^_^), should be able get a hold of *EATs (and the game) pretty quickly. *This is assuming they're not getting bad advice from people or are playing with those "there's only one right way to play/slot/etc" mentality folks. |
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Snixnix - Humanform Warshade
Various others.
@debtlover
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I think the same could be said about Defenders and Controllers, though.|
Originally Posted by Debtlover
I agree entirely, but why sour a new player on khelds by giving them an at they have no idea how to handle? The drop to 20 is not my main issue. My main issue is now "What will be the reward for a new player once they hit 50 for the FIRST time?"
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As for a new 50 reward? You've got me there. Actual end-game content seems to be it. That being said, again, 50's still do have the most options in terms of what they can do. To paraphrase the old saying, "a 50 is its own reward."
And of course, a question I haven't seen yet (or missed): what about people who get to 50 and don't like Khelds or SoA's? Not much of a reward for them, is it?
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Originally Posted by Psyte
I think the same could be said about Defenders and Controllers, though.
As for a new 50 reward? You've got me there. Actual end-game content seems to be it. That being said, again, 50's still do have the most options in terms of what they can do. To paraphrase the old saying, "a 50 is its own reward." And of course, a question I haven't seen yet (or missed): what about people who get to 50 and don't like Khelds or SoA's? Not much of a reward for them, is it? |
The "actual end-game content" that you speak of must be purchased IIRC. Not much of a reward is it?
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Snixnix - Humanform Warshade
Various others.
@debtlover
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It will be for NCSoft |
Originally Posted by Debtlover
The "actual end-game content" that you speak of must be purchased IIRC. Not much of a reward is it?
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But slightly more seriously, I'm pretty sure that GR will end up being bought by a very large section of the playerbase - if paid-for expansions didn't sell well, MMOs wouldn't bother releasing them.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yeah I wouldn't mind if gated content was unlocked account-wide - heck, I might even be interested in badging if they were account-wide unlocks and if certain badges weren't only available for limited times.|
Originally Posted by Psyte
Yep. The divorce between appearance and ability is one of my favorite things about COH. Being able to have most all all the options (capes, wings, auras, etc) in CO at creation is one of my favorite things about that game. Since the ball is back in Paragon Studio's court, I'd like to see them go even further than that! For example, I can understand keeping somethings gated (whether I like it or not is a different matter), but being able to unlock things per account or getting a redeemable "token" for another character would be great (unlock a Tommy Gun or Tech Wings with one character, use that "token" for a new character at creation). Stuff like that.
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Originally Posted by Psyte
Let me rephrase, then...
level =/= skill veteran's status (ie, length of time playing) =/= skill A good player, especially one that decides to educate themselves (through guides, Paragonwiki, just listening*, etc) and is playing with people willing to help/teach them (last I checked we still had one of the best communities for a game ^_^), should be able get a hold of *EATs (and the game) pretty quickly. *This is assuming they're not getting bad advice from people or are playing with those "there's only one right way to play/slot/etc" mentality folks. |
Though honestly very little about MMOs involves any real skill - being able to follow orders/guides, endure repetition and/or spends lots of time in the game are usually all that is required to hit top status - most gamers with previous MMO experience shouldn't struggle too much here. But building and slotting a character does at least take a bit of knowledge in CoH, and knowing what you want from your character (often in advance), moreso than a lot of MMOs - and there are enough options that there is no single clearly "best" build for most characters, just whatever suits what you want - although there are clearly sub-par builds, players can get by with them - this is not a hard game unless you go looking for a challenge.
Some of the EATs may be a bit more complex, but tbh I've struggled more with trying to fit powers and/or slots into some of my Stalker and Dominator builds than I have with some of my EATs. I guess I was lucky with my warshade in that I focused on dwarf+nova, only taking human powers that supported the forms, so I never had slot problems, and I had tons of power picks to spare (my WS is my only character that has more than 1 travel power - counting innate/form-powers he actually has all 4 - something that would be very broken in any other archetype, but he's an absolute beast in combat). And all 4 VEAT branches were relatively easy to build except that I could have done with 1 extra power pick on each build - but again, I focused my builds with a certain playstyle/goal in mind, rather than trying to do everything.
Honestly I don't think that opening EATs up at L20 is going to flood the game with any more confused/bad players than the game allegedly has now (and I've seen mid-L30s players with 4 travel powers before - and they weren't warshades
). Besides everyone has respecs available and I'm sure we all made mistakes with our first characters - I know I did.The only complaints I can really see about opening up EATs at L20 is from players who like having something that other players don't have access to - and while that's valid from their perspective, and probably valid in an achiever-biased game like WoW or EverQuest, I don't think it's a particularly valid view in CoH/V which is one of the most casual-friendly Western MMOs in existence (with certainly one of the fastest-to-level-cap levelling curves of any Western MMO I've played). Besides if they want things that few other players have then they can always aim for a fully purpled and/or PvP IO'd build.
It will be interesting to see how the new endgame changes the game's overall casual balance, though I'm not overly worried.
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Is it red-name confirmed to be part of Going Rogue and not an upcoming issue update? All I know/seen (and I'll readily admit I miss stuff) indicates Positron is working on it but that's about it. No clue what it is, when its expected to come out, etc.|
Originally Posted by Debtlover
The "actual end-game content" that you speak of must be purchased IIRC. Not much of a reward is it?
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...73&postcount=1
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| Always willing to jump in and get his hands dirty, Matt Positron Miller has handed over day-to-day management of the Design Team to Melissa War Witch Bianco so that he can focus on the critically important End Game system in addition to a few other top secret initiatives. Were certain that Posi has made this selfless hands-on sacrifice not only to ensure that the End Game is the best it can possibly be, but also to make Melissas life a living er a lovely educational and professional growth experience. So congratulations and good luck to War Witch who now leads the Design team, boldly forging CoHs path into the future. |
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| And a lot of you caught the reference to the End-Game that I am now working on. WarWitch frees me up to be creative again (yay!) and my strike team and I are designing and implementing an all-new system for your max-level characters to participate in. Rest assured that my focus for end-game is FUN. I won't be able to give out any specific details for a while, but I think you are all going to be very excited with all the future plans for City of Heroes, whether it is Going Rogue or beyond. |
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Well, they keep raising the level cap and stuff like that too. All the important "carrots" that I'm glad not to participate it |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It will be for NCSoft
But slightly more seriously, I'm pretty sure that GR will end up being bought by a very large section of the playerbase - if paid-for expansions didn't sell well, MMOs wouldn't bother releasing them. |
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Hehe I'm agreeing with you again. I always hated level-cap raises - in EverQuest you actually felt weaker at higher levels than you did at low levels - you started out being able to solo, but as you levelled up that soloability went away for most classes, and you felt comparatively weaker and weaker compared to same-level NPCs each time the level cap went up with expansions. At least CoH does actually make us feel more powerful - or certainly no weaker - as we level up.
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Originally Posted by Psyte
Well, they keep raising the level cap and stuff like that too. All the important "carrots" that I'm glad not to participate it
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I17 sounds good, from the rather vague list of features we've had. More mission content is the standout feature for me, as I'm always happy to have fresh dev-created content to play through.
I have a Warshade and both VEATs at L50 and I don't personally feel cheated that access is being lowered to L20 - they're very fun archetypes and I'm glad more players will be able to experience them.
I don't like the idea bzald mentioned that appearance should be an indicator of level either, as 90% of the MMOs out there work like this - it's refreshing that CoH doesn't, because everyone looks completely different at all levels. I like that visual variety and having appearance limited more by your own creativity than in-game achievement.
I've just got a different view on this. If its for the benefit of the playerbase and the game? I think its a good move.
Regarding pre-order bonuses, I hate it when different pre-order packages are offered (like Cryptic has done with STO) for several reasons: a) you can't get everything without buying more copies of the game than you need; b) US players tend to get all of the pre-order options offered, while EU/other players get fewer options or only one - indeed most of those pre-order Arachnos helmets weren't available at all on EU servers until they were added as Veteran Rewards. I would be very disappointed if NCSoft/Paragon Studios went down the same path Cryptic is taking with lots of different pre-order packages - they had less pre-order options available from EU vendors too, I believe.
I'm all for things being unlockable in-game through normal activities that players enjoy, or through greater challenges, just to keep Achiever-type players happy - I just don't want limited availability or region-restricted availability that leaves some players out of luck, or level-limited availability that blocks character concepts.