When does the game get good? (or Do you like lvls 1-20?)
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-02-07 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I guess...yes. You would have to be. Or unknowingly playing with clones of yourself that were created in a top-secret lab and scattered across the globe, only to find themselves playing the same MMO on the server.|
Originally Posted by Smurch
So, if you run with a tight, focused team of other players who are all of the same mindset and don't run off wasting time... you're soloing?
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Unlikely? Absolutely, but so is this concept of "Focused Team".
It boggles the mind, sir. After all, the word Teamwork is an anagram of "Me_At_Work", describing that I will be doing the work while others share the rewards. At least that's the impression I got in my brief stint in higher education, where it was fashionable to assign group projects to students so that most of them could sharpen thier leeching skills in preparation for the workplace.
(Okay, I'm partially joking about the above post.
)
I think there are some cool arcs at low levels, but they just no longer seem feasible to play since many are so long and we level so quickly now. Also, on a team it can take some trial and error to get the same contact/arc. AA WoW-esque ability to share a contact or arc would be great.
Also, it would be completely awesome if they hired one or two people whose sole responsibility was to upgrade and refine old content. Think of the CoV-specific hellions and CoT that should be heroside by now. That's not to say that villains couldn't use help too. Not to mention, make Positron TF better (though merits and exemplar exp make it more tolerable).
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It isn't a matter of grasping the concept, though. At least not for me.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Is this a hard concept for you to grasp?
I AM THE ONLY PERSON PLAYING. |
But in your initial post in this thread, you simply stated that L1-20 is 3 hours for you. While that may be true, it is under circumstances that are not those of the average player, and were not stated.
I'm sure that many folks don't know that you multi-box. Not that there is anything wrong with that...thanks for paying 30$+/month to fund the content that I will enjoy having paid only 15$/mo for.
It's just that the statement left out a bit of context.
Now, as to whether multi-boxing is truly solo? That's a matter of perspective. It has many of the characteristics of soloing: unity of thought, single focus and characteristics of teaming: multiple characters involved in combat, with the multiplicative effects created.
But a multiboxed character will level at a different rate than one that is 100% solo.
After this much time playing, I can understand if playing one character at a time was a little dull for some folks.
I'm one of those people that really love 1-14, and 20+. 14-20 would be nice, but the end drain is less of an inconvenience, and more a real frustration. I think that running low on end's fine, as long as it doesn't happen so often you want to log out halfway through your first mission. I probably enjoy these levels because I develop a real 'feel' for the character, and I can see that to someone who isn't so concept-oriented those levels really might not be that fun.
Oh, and as far as the whole soloing debate's going; I think soloing is one character supported only by themselves. Calling multi-boxing soloing is grossly untrue, in my opinion. Quite funny, too.
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Don't you think this...|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
2.)2.) Accuracy/Lack of powers. Yes it is a lot better since that tohit bonus was put in a few issues ago but it's still quite bothersome (especially around 14-22)...MISS, MISS, MISS, MISS.... >_< Add to that you only have 1-3 attack powers usually....thank the devs for the veteran reward powers!
3.) Lack of Stamina. As everyone has mentioned coupled with # 2, you seem to need to use Rest every other group....not fun. |
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| *I never touch TOs/DOs/SOs anymore* |
Not slotting TOs I can understand (if not agree with, I still slot them from 7 onward), but if you're not slotting DOs either then it's no wonder you're suffering from lack of End and Acc. Sure they're not as good as IOs, but they make a difference.
My favorite part of the game is 20 and under. It's why I have very few characters over level 25. ...and I have over 100 characters total.... :x
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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TOs and DOs really arent worth what you pay for them, though. At TO levels, you do level fast enough that its only really worth slotting drops. DOs cost is so much so that, unless you have a few recipes to sell, a level 50 to dump cash from, or shear good luck, by the time you've got to the point you can slot a character with level 15 DOs, they are now level 16.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
Don't you think this...
...has something to do with the underperformance you see in the low levels? Not slotting TOs I can understand (if not agree with, I still slot them from 7 onward), but if you're not slotting DOs either then it's no wonder you're suffering from lack of End and Acc. Sure they're not as good as IOs, but they make a difference. |
If the game is balanced around SOs (afaik, thats the case) then why not make them the only enhancements? The ammount of descrepancy between the different xOs feels like some huge leftover from the reign of Jack.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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It's insanely easy to be able to afford DOs.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
TOs and DOs really arent worth what you pay for them, though. At TO levels, you do level fast enough that its only really worth slotting drops. DOs cost is so much so that, unless you have a few recipes to sell, a level 50 to dump cash from, or shear good luck, by the time you've got to the point you can slot a character with level 15 DOs, they are now level 16.
If the game is balanced around SOs (afaik, thats the case) then why not make them the only enhancements? The ammount of descrepancy between the different xOs feels like some huge leftover from the reign of Jack. |
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Ugh. I think we can agree that teaming and dual boxing are both different than soloing a single character. Three different things, none superior to the other, but different regardless.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
We agree that "to each their own" is a style of play for this game?
Well, last few times I wanted to actually play through the content offered in this game at this point, I just dual boxed the content... and not really how that sounds. I log on a 50 with recall friend... and eliminate the travel time in the low levels... Nothing makes me feel LESS super than being slow as hell. Just because I am a low level super hero doesnt mean both of my legs are submerged in mud. So, simply by removing the slow-butt travel I shave ALOT of time off the leveling pace. (I DO NOT have the 50 play the content thoe, unless is a badge mission) Also, I tend to team alot, and my teams dont usually mind getting ported to all the missions for times sake. |
Still, I have to hand to you internet, you have suckered me in again...
I find my personal break point is 4.
With a potential 3 attacks, which is decent chain, especially filled with vet powers. Thats when it starts being real fun. (oh and Ninja run to travel with these days)
Levels 1-3 not so much.
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I see it the same way, but take it a step farther. SOs (just as TOs and DOs) just aren't worth it since they expire in a few levels. I go straight for the regular IOs when my characters get to level 22 (because pre-level 25 IOs are just too weak). It's a bit more expensive for sure, but worth it in the long run.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
TOs and DOs really arent worth what you pay for them, though. At TO levels, you do level fast enough that its only really worth slotting drops. DOs cost is so much so that, unless you have a few recipes to sell, a level 50 to dump cash from, or shear good luck, by the time you've got to the point you can slot a character with level 15 DOs, they are now level 16.
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I'd prefer it if we simply had vanilla IOs made the standard, instead of the other Os.|
Originally Posted by Arctic Man
I see it the same way, but take it a step farther. SOs (just as TOs and DOs) just aren't worth it since they expire in a few levels. I go straight for the regular IOs when my characters get to level 22 (because pre-level 25 IOs are just too weak). It's a bit more expensive for sure, but worth it in the long run.
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They give less of a bonus at level 10 than at 15, than at 20, etc etc. But they dont run out. So, you can upgrade if you want. Or leave it, but still not be un-slotted.
I'm waiting for people to wail 'DOs and SOs are cheap, its not hard to slot them.'
Well, sorry. We obviously have different playstyles. Because, until the 40s, I've never found it easy to keep DO/SOs in the green without getting lucky drops or inf transfers. Last time I checked, the game was meant to be balanced around SOs, not IO drops.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I start slotting IOs from lvl 10. Mostly generics that you get for 10,000 inf or less, though if I have the salvage/drops, I'll frankenslot. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
TOs and DOs really arent worth what you pay for them, though. At TO levels, you do level fast enough that its only really worth slotting drops. DOs cost is so much so that, unless you have a few recipes to sell, a level 50 to dump cash from, or shear good luck, by the time you've got to the point you can slot a character with level 15 DOs, they are now level 16.
If the game is balanced around SOs (afaik, thats the case) then why not make them the only enhancements? The ammount of descrepancy between the different xOs feels like some huge leftover from the reign of Jack. |
A lot of set recipes go real cheap (like 222 inf) below lvl 20. The minor (to me) % difference between IOs and DOs doesnt worry me, and I much prefer to have enhancments that dont go red and need restocking.
If the characters been lucky (either from drops or a bonus over payment from something on market) I'll start slotting the special IOs too (eg knock back protections).
Buying high level junk recipes and vendoring for 30 minutes will more than make enough to outfit lowbie characters, no luck required. Often 10 minutes will do the job (assuming a vendor sale of 5000 inf for junk IO sets - the generic recipes get much more than that). Villianside, its easy to buy up salvage for 11inf at the same time to make a little extra.
Villainside, I find lvl 1-5 superfast, a few laps around mercy, then a walk to the black killing things is enough though I often do kalinda's missions to get her number for later cape/aura missions.
I make sure I dont team between 5-10 as I like to try and get badge/temp power like loa bone from Boccor, or summon imps from Billy.
Heroside, I mostly run the sewers and get in the Kings row safe guard mission which normally takes me real close to 10 - sometimes turing off XP.
The story arcs espcially the fairly unique maps are darn good blueside imo, but I also find sewers a whole bunch of fun.
12-20 both sides drags a bit more, but I slot for end red, carry more blues and my alting a lot means for patrol XP. Actually my Alt-addiction means many of my lowbie have a half dozen dayjobs to turbo charge through the levels - For instance I liked having the rez power last sewer run, which no one expected from a lvl 3 blaster
It does feel grindy for me from 15ish to 30ish (depending on AT combo). 32 is typically my go-go good level with all your primary and able to slot lvl 35 IOs.
Then slows down again at mid 40's, while I wait to slot purples, but I tend to really enjoy the characters at this stage.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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I used to do the IO thing fairly early and put in level 25s until a later time, but the buying and crafting aspect just slowed me down too much. I can earn enough to just sub in new SOs as I go and then add in IOs much closer to when I'm 50.
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Originally Posted by Arctic Man
I see it the same way, but take it a step farther. SOs (just as TOs and DOs) just aren't worth it since they expire in a few levels. I go straight for the regular IOs when my characters get to level 22 (because pre-level 25 IOs are just too weak). It's a bit more expensive for sure, but worth it in the long run.
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Yes I have, but no I'm not |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Thats cos you only have one character, bimbo
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And to answer the OP, I like 1-14 just fine. 15-20 can be more of a drag just because you know what's coming in 20-22. I loath 21 because mobs have been bumped up, but you don't have SOs/level 25 IOs. I still think level 35 is really the end game turn point. Even with SOs, the lacks of slots can be a pain. By 35, slots fill out and you can really start adding in level 35 IO sets.
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Yes.
| Do you like lvls 1-20? |
I like doing sewer runs once in a while, but mostly the 1-20 game does not excite me and I'm likely to PL myself through it because I can (yay for 2 accounts).
22+ is fun, 32+ is extra fun.
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Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
Don't you think this...
...has something to do with the underperformance you see in the low levels? Not slotting TOs I can understand (if not agree with, I still slot them from 7 onward), but if you're not slotting DOs either then it's no wonder you're suffering from lack of End and Acc. Sure they're not as good as IOs, but they make a difference. |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
TOs and DOs really arent worth what you pay for them, though. At TO levels, you do level fast enough that its only really worth slotting drops. DOs cost is so much so that, unless you have a few recipes to sell, a level 50 to dump cash from, or shear good luck, by the time you've got to the point you can slot a character with level 15 DOs, they are now level 16.
If the game is balanced around SOs (afaik, thats the case) then why not make them the only enhancements? The ammount of descrepancy between the different xOs feels like some huge leftover from the reign of Jack. |
Do I suffer a bit? Probably. I just don't have the money (more like the ability to transfer money to my alts) to buy DOs/SOs/less than lvl 25 common IOs....so...I just wait till lvl 22 and get me some IOs (since I can craft with my lvl 50 toon that has the field crafter badge(s) and craft 'em for cheap and put them in the SG bins).
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Me, I enjoy the first twenty levels. I did have a stretch where I was starting a lot of new characters and it started getting kind of "meh." But now I have a lot of people in the 35+ range, and that was getting a bit too much until I just focused on one character at a time (this is all heroside, by the way, I only have two villains, and the first is still working up to 50).
So now, I enjoy the 1-20 range. There's something iconic about coming in to Atlas Park and seeing that huge statue in front of you (Galaxy has its appeal as well, but Atlas Park is just... Atlas Park). The Hollows and Faultline are quite fun to me, and there are other arcs that are fun to run and plumb to remind yourself how those different villain groups work.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
hero side the low levels are a tremendous waste of time and do the game no favors. It is a parade of ancient, pointless content that reflects the mindset and technology in play at launch, not the current reality.
Villian side is technically & philosophically much better, but suffers badly from a lack of diversity. No matter how engaging the storyline, you can only jump down that snake hole so many times before your eyes start to cross. That said, modern innovations have done wonders to ease the burden of the lower levels, especially for longtime players. Vet powers, bank temp travel powers, MA, low level acc buff, exp smoothing, all go a long way to help reduce the tedium of the low levels. But if GR delivers a rich, detailed 'lowbie' gaming experience, it will be doing us and the game a huge favor. |
Like a certain puppy loving lass, I dual box my way around this Universe; but it's not solo in the classic sense, to be sure.
I love having a plethora of powers; especially I love the ease of travel my 50 gives me, and not having to worry about Stamina too much. If there's not a quick lowbie team to join, I PL my tiny-toons until they're around 14 or so.
If GR brings with it an overhaul to the whole low level game, I will be ecstatic! And most likely tied up in the Character Creator, developing yet more alts to fill my accounts with.
Generally, I like all levels of the game with the exception of a few small level ranges where I need to update my enhancements... which is around levels 10-12, 20-22 and 30-33. I don't use TO's, DO's or SO's anymore unless I'm testing a respec on test server last night I actually spent about 2 hours at level 1 (level locked) on a dark/dark defender running through atlas doing missions, grabbing badges and killing level 4-5's outdoors just to do something different 
... I earned something like 12k prestige for my SG and, by killing level 4 & 5's I got some salvage drops too. Currently my little level 1 'fender has about 120k inf, 40 badges, 10 reward merits and 0 XP, lol.
I have a lot of alts, well over 100 between my 2 accounts... the majority of which are below 30, and a good number below 20. I suspect I'll be making at least 4-6 more alts once Rogue is released.
In relation to "double boxing" ... I "box" both my accounts on the same machine since I find it easier than using seperate machines. plus I don't have the desk space for 2 keyboards/mice/etc. if you're playing 2 alts by yourself and aren't teamed with another actual person, technically you are soloing... but like Esoteric_Monk said, it's not soloing in the classic sense. still, saying you "solo'd" something without referencing that you were Boxing is misleading, it's not a lie... but it's not the whole truth either. I personally think it's in bad taste just to say "i did it solo" rather than "i did it solo boxing x alts" or "i did it boxing x alts", but that's just me.
I like levelling and getting new powers as much as the next guy, but it's not the end-all be-all of the game for me. I don't think I could get from 1-20 in 3 hours solo, even solo-boxing, Unless some exploit was used. Maybe I just aint got skillz like that... but I also couldn't care less
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I'm not sure how you can say that, since Inventions cost more than SOs, are harder to obtain if you want a full set, require more work to acquire and don't do as much until something like level 30-35. Let me put it like this:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm waiting for people to wail 'DOs and SOs are cheap, its not hard to slot them.'
Well, sorry. We obviously have different playstyles. Because, until the 40s, I've never found it easy to keep DO/SOs in the green without getting lucky drops or inf transfers. Last time I checked, the game was meant to be balanced around SOs, not IO drops. |
From level 22 onwards, I can get a full set of Single Origin enhancements for around 1-2 million. A single rare salvage piece sells for anywhere from 500 000 to 2 million. I get more than four per 5-level range every time. That means I am absolutely, positively guaranteed to have at least enough INF to kit myself out in Single Origin enhancements. This is not true for Inventions, and I'll explain why.
I don't go for Inventions until level 37, at which point I look for level 40 Inventions. A single level 40 Common Invention enhancement goes for around 200 000 to 400 000 on the Market bought whole, and will cost you 60-100 000 to make and around as much to buy if you don't have a recipe and there aren't any for sale (which there rarely are for reasonable prices). As well, if you want to Invent the recipe, you will need salvage, which you will likely not have at the time that you need the recipe, and will not be able to store enough of to make a full transition. I know this for a fact, actually, as a friend of mine with all the possible salvage slots unlocked ran out of room three times over when inventing things for me as a favour. As such, either you have to do a lot of fiddly, unpleasant planning, or you have to buy the salvage of the market, which will either burden you with hours of wait time or hundreds of thousands of cost. Good luck buying seven Luck Charms.
A typical full range of Common Inventions usually costs me between 10 and 20 million, which is typically everything I have at the time, and then some. In fact, lately I've been skipping upgrading to level 45 Commons altogether, because if I try to, I run out of money half-way through and then end up with almost no ability to buy level 50 Commons when I get to 47. So I skip straight from level 40s to level 50s and it STILL costs me more than buying SOs several times over.
I don't know what you're doing to make it so much easier for you, but I highly suspect it's something that's out of norm, like using tickets or merits or some such. And I will grant you that, on the odd charactert hat I've had some Architect tickets banked on, it's been somewhat easier to stock up on Inventions, but I HATE the Architect, and having to grind through it is a major pain in the ***. That's as compared to Single Origin enhancements where I can just pop into the store, spend a total of 10% of my bank, if that, and walk out with a full set of everything.
I prefer commons, but they are not, in any way, shape or form, easier to get than SOs. And that's considering I sell ALL my drops and never use anything from them, so I'm not getting SOs handed to me.
*edit*
As far as staying on topic goes, I like all level ranges, but I actually prefer the low levels. It doesn't bother me that I'm weaker, it just highlights how much stronger I'll become later on. I like the low levels because of their dynamic pace. I get powers, I get the slots to expand them and before I turn around, I get even more powers. I'm slowly building up my capabilities, and each addition matters. Later in the levels, this process slows down, I'm left with powers that have effects which are hard to detect in actual gameplay, everything stretches out and I'm no longer getting much stronger, instead getting auxiliary powers that increase my utility more than my performance. I enjoy just revelling in the power of a high-level character, but they just level up too slow for me to be as excited.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Couldn't disagree more. The Hollows arcs are some of the best in the game if taken in the round and you actually stop to read the stories - although I'd agree there had been an overemphasis on making heroes actually do those arcs too often and so there was a feeling of zone "burnout." |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
hero side the low levels are a tremendous waste of time and do the game no favors. It is a parade of ancient, pointless content that reflects the mindset and technology in play at launch, not the current reality.
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That pretty well stopped once the police band missions provided the Jet Packs, and once the Hollows was revamped.
To the OP: I really enjoy the first 20 levels and my principal reason is simply this - I like to develop a "feel" for my character. I like to know if it's worth continuing to play and generally by the time I'm on my cape mission I'll have a pretty good idea. I have alt-itis pretty bad so often the crunch comes around 20, but I'd say generally it's about 20 levels for me to decide if I actually like the toon from a concept and a game play stance. Some times they will get remade, sometimes they will go to the great graveyard in Dark Astoria never to be seen again.
Thelonious Monk
Right off I'll say I won't mind (much) if it does. I love the low level game, and spend most of my time on it, but I sometimes suspect I'm in the minority in this, especially as far as forumites go, and I admit that I wince at the thought of the reaction if it is confirmed that the new shiny is only the first 20 levels.
But this isn't intended as a GR speculation thread as such. I'm just wondering if the impression I get is correct, or if it's skewed by a vocal minority?
So do you like those first 20 levels, or do you regard it as a tiresome pre-travel power, pre-stamina, pre-interesting enemies grind?
This being said with all the leveling curves, "no debt until level 10", faster leveling through level 15 - what is the point of releasing GR with only the first 20 levels?
I can't believe that it is true. It really makes no sense.
It wouldn't take more than several hours to hit 20 with a good team.
I would be really surprised if they didn't release it with level 1-40 content the way that was done with CoH and CoV. Why break what has worked in the past?
I can get a travel power at level 1 now - Raptor Pack in the Shadow Shard or Grandville.
As a vet, I unlock travel powers at level 6 - I've only used this feature once because I can get a travel power at level 1 now.
Part of the "suffering" of not having Stamina before level 20 is the fact that it gives you that great feeling of liberation when you finally get it. Maybe some of us don't enjoy that rush and just dread the journey to the goal.
I like level 1-20 more than I like level 40-50.