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You DO realize you're talking about someone who is playing a GAME right?|
Originally Posted by Emberly
How do you people live in the real world?
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Heheh; I scanned through all the pages of this topic looking to see if no one else had posted that yet. It would be on the last page, hurr hurr!|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
This whole silly argument could be rectified if players had the ability to block buffs.
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(After glancing through the topic again, it's now the second-to-last page. Blergh.)
Anywho, since I rarely post on the forums, I'll just throw in my experience in buffing without further ado: Combat Buffing, good. Non-Combat Buffing...depends. Various scenarios I've been in include being undesirably buffed during costume events, being undesirably buffed when role-playing or chatting with folks, and being undesirably buffed when taking a screenshot of my character.
I can't say I fly into a cataclysm of rage whenever I am given such an unwanted buff, but it does certainly bring a feeling of mild irritation knowing that I have to wait for whatever effects to wear off before I can resume whatever my interest was without the distraction.
But I also speak as a Defender, and understanding the mild annoyance that comes with being undesirably buffed, I will usually ask folks before I buff them, whether or not they want the effects. Usually I do this when I see someone in 'pre-combat' mode--facing at a group of enemies with a fair bit of determination; or however 'determination' can be read when examining a virtual character. I simply make sure they wouldn't dislike me for buffing them.
It takes less than a quarter of a minute, and the result dispels any ill feelings that might arise had they not wanted the buff, and it brings a feeling of harmony if they say they would like the buff (in which case I charge them up and then toddle off). And then there's when I see a bloke already in combat, and with buffs already active. That's when I take a chance, assume with buffs already on he wouldn't mind some more combat boosting, and give him whatever is appropriate.
Following this style, I've never once gotten a complaint about having buffed someone undesirably, and I usually always get a simple 'ty' from the folks whom I do boost. The trick is just taking a second or two to examine the situation, and decide whether or not it calls for buffs at all. It's not some huge emotional deal, and it shouldn't infringe on anyone's judgment--even egotistical, over-zealous heroes (I've rarely been undesirably buffed as a Villain...oh, that's why...) who inject caffeine into their veins while anxiously holding their finger over their [Speed boost] hotkey, ready to jam it in an instant should a player so much as move unexpectedly.
Well, that's all what I've experienced, so my final thoughts I'm going to express simply because I can: "common courtesy can exist in-game too!" You might not like it so much if while you were walking down the sidewalk one day, some random fellow suddenly charged at you brandishing a syringe while shouting, "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!!" Hurr hurr.
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If you want to solo, solo a mission.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
For those that wish to merely solo and be left alone, or whom are testing new builds, new tactics, or other such things, you are actively not helping, and telling us we're wrong for not liking your interference because you are "being helpful" is, frankly, rude.
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If you want to be left alone, solo a mission.
If you want to test a new build, test it in a clean environment (see "solo a mission").
If you want to test tactics, test it in a mission.
VERY simple. If you're out in a public zone, expect interacting with other players.
(See: "Well duh".)
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| You may act with the best of intentions, but that does not mean you are always "helping". |
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Society's standards of common courtesy. We realise you're "trying to help", and that it is thus rude to tell you how undesired your help is. So we either don't react, or fall back to society patterns and throw out the expected "Thank you" for things we'd really rather you didn't do.|
Originally Posted by Grant_Hammerhoof
Following this style, I've never once gotten a complaint about having buffed someone undesirably, and I usually always get a simple 'ty' from the folks whom I do boost.
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We're not allowed to tell you to piss off. It's rude, after all.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No, but damning people for giving in to the samaritan instinct is poor form...at best.
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And for the record, I have been defeated and had my game crash because of random Speed Boosts before. SB is, more often than not, the exact opposite of helping. I even ask Kin team mates to keep it off me.
Question for those who are claiming that "99%" of players appreciate your drive by buffs:
What are you basing that off of? All the "thank yous" you get? really?
What about all the times you received nothing but silence?
PS
To the person who negged me saying that it takes "skill" to drive by buff; Thanks! I needed a good laugh.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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So, because you don't think you should be actively rude to them, you tell them nothing? You couldn't, for example, say, "Thanks, but I'm trying to see if I can manage this without help"? Sure, they might grumble at you for being odd, but at least you both thanked them and asked them to leave you be thenceforth. And if they ignore your request, then you start to have some grounds to tell them to "piss off". |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
We're not allowed to tell you to piss off. It's rude, after all.
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PS: If that's too long to type in combat, it would be easy to create a macro or bind it to say it in local.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Purposely interfering with another SOLO player's gameplay without consideration of whether they want your interference is griefing.
I've already stated that there is a distinction between TEAM play and SOLO play. Quit trying to twist my words around. Respect and consideration for other players would dictate that you ASK the SOLO player if they want assistance. "Want some buffs?" "sure" *buff* "Want some buffs?" "no ty" "kk. gl." It's not about "playing your toon the way it was intended", save that for TEAMing. It's about respect and consideration for other players, especially if you are not teamed with them. |
And on the flip side
"Want a buff?"
"Y"*DEAD!*
"Want a buff?"
"N"*DEAD!*
The rage over minutiae like this is merely a sign one has nothing better to do.
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That's still not a reason for people to refrain from offering it in general, because, you're in a minority of people with that issue. Especially having your game crash.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
And for the record, I have been defeated and had my game crash because of random Speed Boosts before. SB is, more often than not, the exact opposite of helping. I even ask Kin team mates to keep it off me.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The simple fact that most of the time you receive thanks instead of someone who flips out, or said buffee gleefully dives off into the next group(s) more quickly than they had been before, means it's a fairly safe assumption that more often than not, people appreciate buffs or at the least are neutral.|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Question for those who are claiming that "99%" of players appreciate your drive by buffs:
What are you basing that off of? All the "thank yous" you get? really? What about all the times you received nothing but silence? PS To the person who negged me saying that it takes "skill" to drive by buff; Thanks! I needed a good laugh. |
It's not really about how you feel about buffs though, it's what you choose to do about it. Going on your way or heading into an instance to solo are reasonable. Making a stink, especially to the point of posting in the forums claiming there's a secret cabal of buff hating players that keep a list and will seek revenge (see "enemies") is not in any way reasonable.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
So, because you don't think you should be actively rude to them, you tell them nothing?
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Eiko, I think what he's saying is that he is considerate and respectful enough of other players to take the time for evaluation before pushing his brand of help on them. Which is all I've been saying the whole time as well.
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Originally Posted by Grant_Hammerhoof
Following this style, I've never once gotten a complaint about having buffed someone undesirably, and I usually always get a simple 'ty' from the folks whom I do boost. The trick is just taking a second or two to examine the situation, and decide whether or not it calls for buffs at all.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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It's a perfectly valid reason to expect people to ask before granting that particular buff, at least. SB has never saved anyone's life. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's still not a reason for people to refrain from offering it in general, because, you're in a minority of people with that issue. Especially having your game crash.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Making a stink, especially to the point of posting in the forums claiming there's a secret cabal of buff hating players that keep a list and will seek revenge (see "enemies") is not in any way reasonable.
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If you wish to politely ask afterwards not to be buffed, that's fine. Nerdraging on them though...|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
See?
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| And for the record, I have been defeated and had my game crash because of random Speed Boosts before. |
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True Story, it saved mine, twice. Once a drive by while I was running away pre travel powers, another time the added recharge cycled my self heal just enough quicker to get me through a fight alive.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
It's a perfectly valid reason to expect people to ask before granting that particular buff, at least. SB has never saved anyone's life.
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You're smarter than this, no need to say something so obviously brain dead.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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speak for yourself SB always save me in the lower levels when i wouldn't have enough end to finish a mob and keep my toggles up but with SB guess what, I not only survived because my toggles didn't drop but also because I could keep going to finish them all off.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
It's a perfectly valid reason to expect people to ask before granting that particular buff, at least. SB has never saved anyone's life.
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This sounds like you think only the h34l0r can save people or maybe only heals save people that is very much NOT the case
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Glad to see you ignored the rest of my post.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
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If you can't be bothered to communicate to others in any way but a negative way, I can't be bothered to have much sympathy for your position.
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| It's a perfectly valid reason to expect people to ask before granting that particular buff, at least. SB has never saved anyone's life |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I apparently have the wrong brand of video card, and CoX doesn't like it much, so rapid graphic changes tend to cause the game to crash.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So, because your computer is unstable, it's the would-be samaritan's fault?
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My computer is not unstable. CoX is the only game I have this issue with.
But really, this would be easily solved by giving us a way to remove or avoid buffs manually, and then we wouldn't need to have this conversation.
I understand why some people don't like drive-by buffs. I think a number of valid reasons for not liking them have already been put forth.
But I also understand why people do drive-by buffs, and why they don't usually ask permission first. And honestly, I admit I'm glad they do.
Here's my own story:
Back when I was still pretty new, I took a character into the Hollows and picked up a hunt mission from Wincott. I was at the minimum level for the zone and the only mobs I could find for my hunt mission were +1 to my level and in spawns of 6+ size. Long odds, especially for a rookie players. But I just said "what the heck, no debt for dying at this level, and maybe I'll get lucky" as I jumped in and attacked a spawn. Well, I didn't get lucky, and it was soon clear that my health was dropping faster than the mobs were.
About this time, I noticed another toon standing nearby watching me. I thought, "oh great, not only am I about to get my backside kicked, but there's a witness to my foolishness." But instead of laughing at me for biting off more than I could chew, he threw a force field around me. And because of that, I was just barely able to defeat the whole spawn with just a slip of health left. It was a great moment that really illustrated for me how wonderful this game and the player base are.
If he had asked me first if I wanted help, I wouldn't have answered simply because I was way too busy fighting. There are some players who can type and fight at the same time, but I'm not one of them. I'm grateful he just went with his instincts.
I think having a choice to toggle off "accepting buffs" under the options menu would be a great QOL change for the game and should solve this whole issue. Unfortunately, I know the Devs have to pick and choose which features to work on, and I don't know if the anti-buff contingent is large enough to warrant priority for this.
Also: how commonly do other people get hit by random buffs? I mostly solo, and I think in about a year of playing I've only experienced unsolicited buffing maybe a dozen times max. But I tend to play on lower population servers, too. Are drive-by buffs pretty frequent on Freedom?
How many people really dislike Drive-by buffings to make it worth the dev's time to implement a system to disable buffs? I would bet that it is such a small number that the Dev's would better spend their time doing something else.
Other than getting some kind of shield buff during a costume contest, I can't think of any time that I would not want a buff. I have cast drive-by buffs a few times . . . mostly to test out binds, but if I have a higher level Kin in Atlas, I may throw a few SBs out to lowbies -- never had a complaint and most of the time, I get a "TY." One I do somewhat often is casting Accelerate Metabolism near other characters . . . I need to cast it for myself, so I might as well share.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Honestly, drive-by buffing is largely a blue-side issue. It's one of the many reasons I primarily play villains.
Piling replies together:
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So your only potential replies are "Thank you" and "F Off?" Saying "Thanks for the thought, but please don't do that again" is a polite way of asking not to be buffed again. Ever try that?| "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." |
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
It's a perfectly valid reason to expect people to ask before granting that particular buff, at least. SB has never saved anyone's life.
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SB has helped me avoid too-high mobs in the old hollows (where lvl 15s would spawn *right on top of you* as you jogged by.) SB has helped me off of caltrop patches or quicksand that would have led to defeat. SB has helped with endurance and regen where I needed it. SB has, indeed, assisted my survival - yes, even as a "drive by buff."
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I apparently have the wrong brand of video card, and CoX doesn't like it much, so rapid graphic changes tend to cause the game to crash.
My computer is not unstable. CoX is the only game I have this issue with. But really, this would be easily solved by giving us a way to remove or avoid buffs manually, and then we wouldn't need to have this conversation. |
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Very seldom do I get silence. And if you want to have a simple "thank you" be a sign of anything other than appreciation of the assistance - not "thank you, but xyz," which would supply a request not to do so again, but a simple "thank you," you are, again, asking everyone to be psychic. |
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Question for those who are claiming that "99%" of players appreciate your drive by buffs:
What are you basing that off of? All the "thank yous" you get? really? What about all the times you received nothing but silence? |
Oh, and for your earlier silliness:
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| Purposely interfering with another SOLO player's gameplay without consideration of whether they want your interference is griefing. No matter how much you want to assume everyone else can read your mind. |
Me coming up and dropping a Fortitude on you? Not griefing.
Me training mobs onto you? Griefing.
Me teleporting (team recall) you to the top of a building and dropping you off the side? Griefing.
Me following you around and KSing you repeatedly, even after you ask me to stop doing so? Harassment/Griefing.
The only - only - time you'll get agreement that buffing you is griefing is if I continue to apply the buff repeatedly (not "happen to run by one other time and hit it before recognizing you") after you've specifically requested me to stop. Not "After you've stood there and fumed about it silently." If you've made your desire to be left alone clear to someone - and no, "playing solo" is not "making it clear," no matter what you think - and that person continues doing what you've asked them not to, THEN it can fall under griefing or harassment.
But just walking by and throwing a buff? No, sunshine, that's not griefing.
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Yes I do. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ah, you have an Empath then?
I kid, I kid  |
Level 27 Earth Control / Empathy Controller who only has Healing Aura in his secondary powerset. He's filled his choices from Flight, Fitness, and Leadership. According to the Hero Planner I can get to 50 with only the Aura.
Then there my 22 Bubble Def that only has PFF, Force Bolt, and Dispersion Bubble.
My 28 Sonic Def with Sonic Siphon and Sonic Dispersion
My 29 Rad/Rad that doesn't have any Rad buffs.
And finally my 50 kin def with Transfusion, Siphon Speed, Repel, Inertial Reduction, and Fulcrum Shift.
Learning to take minor inconveniences in stride will go a long ways towards making you a lot less stressed.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
If you want to be left alone, go play GTA or something. Or *gasp*, use an instanced mission.
Fighting mobs out in the open in a zone is implicit consent to interaction with other players (including buffs).
In other words "Just lay back and try to enjoy it".
...
Now that I've delved into a completely inapproriate meme...
YOU do. Again, if you don't want to be "annoyed", do your thing in a mission instance. Quick, easy, simple. Absolutely no nerdrage required.
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