Old Complaints ~or~ 'A More Perfect Superhero Simulator'
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-01-08 17:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
What kinda low end computer did you base the frames per second rate on?
Cuz like... I doubt something in this game would stutter my computer like that.
Just ask people to upgrade 
Sigh.. Perfect_Pain and her toys again.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I actually tested this before the break. Using similar NPC models with different number of cape FX systems. Here are the results:
|
Is this why the Imperius Taskforce lags up so much in the 3rd mission while charging up the hill? Because all the NPC's have capes?
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
Quote:
Are you willing to chip in and help people upgrade? |
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Just ask people to upgrade
|
Quote:
Is there any chance we might get, say, NON-animated wings we could toss on?
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I actually tested this before the break. Using similar NPC models with different number of cape FX systems. Here are the results:
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
So, basically what you're saying is ... |
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I actually tested this before the break. Using similar NPC models with different number of cape FX systems. Here are the results:
|
Costumes cause lag.
Bwahahahahahahahaha! You knew it was coming but read it anyway.
I'd link to the pencil sketch Manoa did of Eyes of Texas that has that as the 3 word title, but ... I can't figure out how to link to it using the two click rule, and don't want to be given a timeout.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
I understand this, that the end-game is to roll a new character. But there have been many recent changes to make getting to 50 worthwhile, and playing at 50 more fun, namely IOs, especially Purples that offer superior enhancement values and set bonuses and can only be slotted at level 50. Why take the time to use these "superior" enhancements if there is nothing to *do* with that character?|
CoH has, to put it bluntly, an assload of potential character slots for a reason. Honestly, I can't actually offer any solutions to this because I'm just not able to really justify the issue in my mind. CoH simply hasn't been designed over the last years to expand "upward", so that's probably why the complaint just doesn't work for me. Level 60 isn't likely to happen (that said, level 50"+" has been discussed regarding the universal slots and other similar things). |
I understand the dev's don't want to add too much to the end game in fear of taking away from the early game, but there has to be an even mix. They've been adding so much to the late game lately that it's become a grind to 50 game, and then do the same stuff over and over again. I don't know the exact solution, sadly. GR presents major opportunities, namely *new* 1-20 content and the ability to do all the content from the other side with your high level character. I love quite a few of the higher level redside arcs, but I generally don't the red ATs and in trying to get to those higher level arcs, I've done most of the lower level stuff into boredom. Being able to take a scrapper through to the 20s on new content and then get into the good stuff on villain side will be a huge boon to me.
~WP
Just my opinion, feel free to disregard...
Quote:
Well, there you. I knew I heard something about this, and thought it wasn't these exact numbers, it was in this general vein. That's kind of why it bugs me when people say "There's no reason this can't be done" when there very often is a reason around about like this one.|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I actually tested this before the break. Using similar NPC models with different number of cape FX systems. Here are the results:
|
Out of curiosity, BABs, did you test that on current-game graphics or with the Going Rogue ultra mode? Because I suspect that might harm performance even more.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
That mission's problems are server side. It's easy to prove that - the client isn't responsible for actually determining when your powers are really recharged. In fact, your client often lies to you about your powers being recharged on that mission, because it thinks they should be recharged when the server says they aren't yet. The server is running behind.
|
Originally Posted by Jake_Summers
Is this why the Imperius Taskforce lags up so much in the 3rd mission while charging up the hill? Because all the NPC's have capes?
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
They might make sure that Praetorians don't wear capes, to reduce potential costume lag - although Tyrant will still need a long black cape to go with his signature moustache twirl emote.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Out of curiosity, BABs, did you test that on current-game graphics or with the Going Rogue ultra mode? Because I suspect that might harm performance even more.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
There is a default key for "Reset Camera", which is what it is called in the keybinds menu and it does this very thing. I rebound it to "C" years ago, no clue what the default is.
|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
In the spirit of the OP, I guess I do have a simple complaint about the interface. Why is there no command or keystroke to level the view? You can tilt your character's viewpoint, or the camera looking at your character, up or down -- but once you've moved it off of level, you can only approximate leveling it again by fiddling with it and trying to persuade yourself you're dead-level.
Yet if you log out and back in, the camera starts perfectly level. Obviously there IS a way to level the camera somehow -- why can't I have it??? Why must my fliers do a drunkard's walk, progressively correcting up and down a little, trying to find level flight to avoid scraping the road or gradually drifting up to the altitude cap? |
the default for reset camera is Page down.
Almost off-topic now, but the only thing I think CoX really needs to make it a more perfect superhero simulator is more non-combat content, something like putting out the fires in Steel, the ski chalet or curing the Lost in the midnighter arc, only more of it (perhaps include it in the AE somehow). I would love to save a kitten from a tree someday :-)
I have tried to introduce a lot of people to the game and the one big complaint I get from the people that don't stay is "its only the same thing over and over again, fight, fight, fight".
More non-combat stuff would be nice for a change, though I know its hard
Quote:
Interestingly, Cryptic seems to have a more relaxed attitude about it, nowadays. For example, in my short time playing CO, I saw a character named Tony Shark - his costume looked just like Iron Man (and I mean, JUST like Iron Man - their costume creator has even more elements that look exactly like their comic-book inspirations), with the exeption that he had a shark's head. The number of characters like that running around CO was pretty crazy - I didn't notice any actual Iron Men or Incredible Hulks, mind you, just very obvious parodies.|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
IP Issues Confuse and Divide Players
A long time ago, I wrote a post that was entitled 'I Grouped with Supergirl'. It was about problems I saw with the way that copyright and trademark problems acted to the detriment of the game and its players. I feel like these problems have only grown worse with time. Even today, some players feel like they HAVE to police the rest of the game's populace for IP infringements lest bogeymen lawyers descend upon the game and shut it down. |
Of course, CoH was like that, too, around the time of launch - but NCSoft made it clear that was not kosher, even though parody is protected by law. I mean, yes, by all means, protect the game by getting rid of ACTUAL copyright violation - but, I've never understood why NCSoft takes it further than that, and genericizes characters that are NOT in violation of copyright law?
I suppose, since they actually got sued by Marvel, they do it as a goodwill gesture toward them and other copyright holders, hoping to avoid further lawsuits. Whereas, perhaps Cryptic, having actually been working with Marvel for awhile, has a better understanding of exactly where the line is drawn?
Like a Runaway Train!
SS's Crey Profile
SS's Virtue Handbook Page
Liberty League: Leave the Justice to Us!
Quote:
I may be wrong, but from what I remember camera reset only changes yaw rotation, the pitch is un-effected.|
Originally Posted by Lazarus
There is a default key for "Reset Camera", which is what it is called in the keybinds menu and it does this very thing. I rebound it to "C" years ago, no clue what the default is.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silver_Streak_NA
Interestingly, Cryptic seems to have a more relaxed attitude about it, nowadays. For example, in my short time playing CO, I saw a character named Tony Shark - his costume looked just like Iron Man (and I mean, JUST like Iron Man - their costume creator has even more elements that look exactly like their comic-book inspirations), with the exeption that he had a shark's head. The number of characters like that running around CO was pretty crazy - I didn't notice any actual Iron Men or Incredible Hulks, mind you, just very obvious parodies.
Of course, CoH was like that, too, around the time of launch - but NCSoft made it clear that was not kosher, even though parody is protected by law. I mean, yes, by all means, protect the game by getting rid of ACTUAL copyright violation - but, I've never understood why NCSoft takes it further than that, and genericizes characters that are NOT in violation of copyright law? I suppose, since they actually got sued by Marvel, they do it as a goodwill gesture toward them and other copyright holders, hoping to avoid further lawsuits. Whereas, perhaps Cryptic, having actually been working with Marvel for awhile, has a better understanding of exactly where the line is drawn? |
Quote:
Right. Duh! Good point - I kinda forgot they settled, and was thinking more like the case was simply dismissed. |
Originally Posted by Shadow State
Since NCSoft was sued and settled out of court, it probable that they are further constrained by whatever agreement they made.
|
Like a Runaway Train!
SS's Crey Profile
SS's Virtue Handbook Page
Liberty League: Leave the Justice to Us!
Quote:
It resets both, and distance.
|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
I may be wrong, but from what I remember camera reset only changes yaw rotation, the pitch is un-effected.
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I just double checked, Camera Reset (default Page Down) doesn't reset pitch.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
It resets both, and distance.
|
Quote:
This is something I'd like to see addressed as well. Ironically, if you look at old reviews of COH, they all state this point as the game's biggest downfall.|
Originally Posted by Drugfree Boy
Almost off-topic now, but the only thing I think CoX really needs to make it a more perfect superhero simulator is more non-combat content, something like putting out the fires in Steel, the ski chalet or curing the Lost in the midnighter arc, only more of it (perhaps include it in the AE somehow). I would love to save a kitten from a tree someday :-)
I have tried to introduce a lot of people to the game and the one big complaint I get from the people that don't stay is "its only the same thing over and over again, fight, fight, fight". More non-combat stuff would be nice for a change, though I know its hard |
Fighting bad guys is one of the great and cool things that superheroes do, but it's not ALL they do. The same goes for villains. The combat system of this game has never been expanded to include more than pounding on a bad guy til he drops. And likewise, outside of combat apart from badges and inventions...we do nothing that heroes or villains get to do.
Heroes don't get to engage in heroic activities which don't involve slugging it out with bad guys and villains don't get to do anything close to scheming or otherwise expanding their underworld influence.
I love what the game has...but it's true that there really needs to be some more depth to several aspects of it.
P.S. And no...Day Jobs did not fill this void.
Quote:
So is this one of the lag problems with the Imperious Task Force?|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I actually tested this before the break. Using similar NPC models with different number of cape FX systems. Here are the results:
|
(Whoops! Jake_Summers beat me to it. Question still stands, though.)
As far as the costume creator goes, I'm amazed at how few costume textures we get on average. I know that costume mods are way more time consuming and they have to be tested for clipping issues, but this is not the case for textures. I'm not only going to cite CoH/V for not providing enough of these because CO has this same issue as well. I don't fault the creative team for this because when we do get costume items they are always great -- I think, like with most businesses, they simply may not be afforded the time to crank out items like that. In addition there have been staffing issues in the past that has caused problems for the Devs. I've seen post in the past about how it is better to have content all come out in large updates/expansion, but I think this is a mistake for a superhero/villain game (at least how it relate to costume options). The powers that be in this game really need to rethink the frequency of something as easy to create as flat costume textures.
The booster packs are getting better and better and as I've stated in previous posts, I can understand these being microtransaction because of the work that goes into them. On the other hand, textures should freely be made available to augment the creator and give players more visual versatility to their characters.
This has been a pet peeve for a while now and it has become even more so since CO has launched.
Quote:
According to my understanding of what "lag" means, no|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
So, basically what you're saying is ... Costumes cause lag.
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag
Capes (and auras) do not cause network latency, they cause a decrease in frame rate on the client-side. But really pale in comparison to just rendering player models by themselves. Keep in mind that my test used 100 copies of the same NPC. Same geometry, same textures, etc. That would be a radically different result with multiple NPC costume defs, or worse...player costumes.
Quote:
whut he said. first after redname!
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
According to my understanding of what "lag" means, no
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag Capes (and auras) do not cause network latency, they cause a decrease in frame rate on the client-side. But really pale in comparison to just rendering player models by themselves. Keep in mind that my test used 100 copies of the same NPC. Same geometry, same textures, etc. That would be a radically different result with multiple NPC costume defs, or worse...player costumes. |
Quote:
Does this mean you'll join my club of people who're tired of getting 'turn down your graphics' as a response to complaints about lag?!
|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
According to my understanding of what "lag" means, no
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag Capes (and auras) do not cause network latency, they cause a decrease in frame rate on the client-side. |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
- 100 NPCs - 0 capes = 48% loss in frame rate
- 100 NPCs - 1 cape = 75% loss in frame rate
- 100 NPCs - 3 capes = 92% loss in frame rate
So yes, there is a reason that we don't want players loading themselves down with multiple cape systems.Wings look more like they use an animation system like that of other limbs, not the cloth effects of capes.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...