Old Complaints ~or~ 'A More Perfect Superhero Simulator'
Warehouse maps should probably look more like the boat maps, I think.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Warehouse maps should probably look more like the boat maps, I think.
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Actually, i've been in a lot of factory/warehouse/industrial sites that are a cluster of interconnected buildings and spaces. Usually not quite as random/puzzling as CoX maps, for one thing the elevated areas are generally office and administrative areas instead of being more storage, but many older industrial sites are sprawling and counter-intuitive layouts.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
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You are correct.
What concerns me, however, is how the Devs dont seem to ever go back to old content. Or if so (Hollows, Faultline, Cape mish) it's very, very rarely. This whole emphasis on 'New shinies!' often leaves a lot of the older content, literally, in the dust. Hell, even the New Cape mission has a HUGE error in it. The mission is meant to be in the same building "Just down the hall" (quote from the actual contact)...instead you get send across the park to some random, non-descript building. The door in the City Hall is THERE, its gets used in the Villain 5thSF, so....WHY in the name of common sense did they chose not to use it?! Oo |
If it was already covered, I missed it. I'd like an option to NOT go talk to [whoever] -- the ones that introduce you to other areas, like the Hollows, Bloody Bay, etc.
When a contact says "Go talk to [whoever]", give us both an accept and a decline option. If we choose decline, then flag it as already done, same as if we'd actually gone and done it, and let us move on. Hanging that on the existing "talk about what else is going on" would be VERY logical. Yes, I know all the workarounds. Yes, I know it doesn't take very long. Yes, I know it's valuable info for new players (which is why I don't advocate eliminating them completely). But none of that makes it any less annoying the 20th, 30th, 40th time I have to go do it. I can't even imagine how annoying it must be the 100th, 200th, 300th time. Please, just give us the option, okay? |
Seriously, someone needs to go back and fix up the old content, especially on the blueside. Laying more and more new stuff over it just makes it look even worse. Just making sure that contacts give their phones by the 2nd mission, moving more of the missions into the same zone as the contact, and cutting out most of the effin' defeat alls would do wonders. Especially for the TFs and Praetorian arcs that suffer badly from Defeat-All-Itis. |
I asked him this very question and his response was, "wouldn't you prefer a new zone over a revamped zone?"
He honestly couldn't see the value in revamping the crappy hazard zones (of which there are many infact...aren't ALL of them which haven't been revamped beyond pointless now?). He did explain that a Faultline/RWZ style revamp takes nearly as much time as creating a new zone.
However the big WoW shaped Gorilla in the corner is going "Yeah...our vanilla content was kind of crappy, you know what, next expansion we're doing a huge revamp of it all!"
The old crappy zones make a poor impression on new players and slapping more and more new zones down merely makes the original crappy zones look even worse but it's like talking to a brick wall at times...
The trouble is people have said this time and time again even to Positron's virtual face during the Euro test server Q&A session in Pocket D. It honestly seems like Positron doesn't quite have any understanding of why the early game needs a revamp.
I asked him this very question and his response was, "wouldn't you prefer a new zone over a revamped zone?" He honestly couldn't see the value in revamping the crappy hazard zones (of which there are many infact...aren't ALL of them which haven't been revamped beyond pointless now?). He did explain that a Faultline/RWZ style revamp takes nearly as much time as creating a new zone. However the big WoW shaped Gorilla in the corner is going "Yeah...our vanilla content was kind of crappy, you know what, next expansion we're doing a huge revamp of it all!" The old crappy zones make a poor impression on new players and slapping more and more new zones down merely makes the original crappy zones look even worse but it's like talking to a brick wall at times... |
I will freely admit that I left COH for 60 days to play AION. And one thing that struck me that was positive about AION compared to COH was the sheer volume of things to do in the early levels, and the free-form order in which you could do it. (Sure, you had the Campaign, which was story-driven and required you to complete it in stages, but you had just a mind-boggling array of things to do.)
What COH really needs, and what would seem to be fairly easy to do at this point, is a revamp of the zones with a Meg Mason style contact in each zone. Yes, absolutely, GR is coming out Soon, but we have no idea how soon Soon is. In the meanwhile, you have to think about what is going to draw and retain new subscribers. And five year old content doesn't seem to be doing the trick (anymore).
Certain zones in the game seem to never get used at all anymore. Boomtown is a ghost town unless you have a mission there. Dark Astoria is the same way. Independence Port is dreaded because it's so large that travel times from one mission to another are often excessive (quick fix: move all contacts closer to the trains/gates/base portals and have them give out their numbers much earlier). I could go on but you get the picture.
In my personal opinion, I'd rather see the zones revamped with new content added to them than a new zone. Yes, a new zone would be very cool. But it would only stretch the existing player population out over an area that doesn't really need to be made any wider.
Certain zones in the game seem to never get used at all anymore. Boomtown is a ghost town unless you have a mission there. Dark Astoria is the same way. Independence Port is dreaded because it's so large that travel times from one mission to another are often excessive (quick fix: move all contacts closer to the trains/gates/base portals and have them give out their numbers much earlier). I could go on but you get the picture. |
Now, I agree that the hazard zones could perhaps use some new touches here and there, Hollows-style, but I don't want to lose the thing I love about them which is endless huge spawns of enemies in close formation... Adding some missions and a TF in each zone to tell the stories behind them, sure, but don't mess around with spawns and things like that for no good reason.
Independence Port could use an internal transport system, perhaps ferries located in the north and south end, one near the train station and one at Terra Volta. These ferries could also connect to the ferries in Talos and Peregrine Island. That's all I would change about IP.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
I completely concur with everything you've said.
I will freely admit that I left COH for 60 days to play AION. And one thing that struck me that was positive about AION compared to COH was the sheer volume of things to do in the early levels, and the free-form order in which you could do it. (Sure, you had the Campaign, which was story-driven and required you to complete it in stages, but you had just a mind-boggling array of things to do.) What COH really needs, and what would seem to be fairly easy to do at this point, is a revamp of the zones with a Meg Mason style contact in each zone. Yes, absolutely, GR is coming out Soon, but we have no idea how soon Soon is. In the meanwhile, you have to think about what is going to draw and retain new subscribers. And five year old content doesn't seem to be doing the trick (anymore). Certain zones in the game seem to never get used at all anymore. Boomtown is a ghost town unless you have a mission there. Dark Astoria is the same way. Independence Port is dreaded because it's so large that travel times from one mission to another are often excessive (quick fix: move all contacts closer to the trains/gates/base portals and have them give out their numbers much earlier). I could go on but you get the picture. In my personal opinion, I'd rather see the zones revamped with new content added to them than a new zone. Yes, a new zone would be very cool. But it would only stretch the existing player population out over an area that doesn't really need to be made any wider. |
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Warehouse maps should probably look more like the boat maps, I think.
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In fact, I'd like to see ship maps replaced with maps on cruise ships, with decks, corridors, rooms, bridges and so forth. Only a very few missions require you to be inside a cargo ship anyway.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Some of the warehouse maps aren't completely out of line with real warehouses i've seen where additional wings/buildings were added onto the original structure as the company expanded, but generally they would make more sense if most were redesigned to be factory maps, which do tend to be more compartmentalized than warehouses.
Actually, i've been in a lot of factory/warehouse/industrial sites that are a cluster of interconnected buildings and spaces. Usually not quite as random/puzzling as CoX maps, for one thing the elevated areas are generally office and administrative areas instead of being more storage, but many older industrial sites are sprawling and counter-intuitive layouts. |
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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A good example is one that I mentioned in the 'I grouped with Supergirl' post. (I talked to the individual involved at the time, and he said he didn't mind me discussing it.) I used to group fairly regularly with a character named 'Shamrock Superman'. His character was a tiny leprechaun-themed magic-origin tank with super-speed, invulnerability, and energy melee. His bio made mention of the fact that he was a leprechaun. He had no visual or thematic similarity whatsoever to a certain *other* Superman -- the most generic hero name possible. In other words, he was well shy of the '2/3' rule I mentioned above. He leveled to 50 without incident and played often.
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I think the revamp vs new content argument is a problem of disconnect and misunderstanding. Dark Astoria doesn't need a zone revamp since it looks interesting as is and it actually has a working hospital. However, it does need more content because while street sweeping can be fun in its own right, there's no other reason to go to what should be a rather story rich area.
Seriously, someone needs to go back and fix up the old content, especially on the blueside. Laying more and more new stuff over it just makes it look even worse.
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For
Truth
End of thread..?
Accessories? Yes please. I would love to be able to add jewelry to my toon's civillian clothes. Or hell even some of their hero outfits.
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We have cigar smoking males and cigarette smoking NPCs of both genders so I don't see why my female characters can't have a smoke.
I think the revamp vs new content argument is a problem of disconnect and misunderstanding. Dark Astoria doesn't need a zone revamp since it looks interesting as is and it actually has a working hospital. However, it does need more content because while street sweeping can be fun in its own right, there's no other reason to go to what should be a rather story rich area.
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As far as Hazard Zones go, the only one I spend a lot of time in is the Hollows. It's got things most of the other hazard zones just don't; a story arc of its own that spans several contacts, a battle with a villain group leader (Frostire), its own hospital, and the Cavern of Transcendence.
Oh, and it has one thing I've not seen except in newer or revamped content; a significant presence of heroic groups like the PPD (who hold the fort at the Atlas Park gate), Legacy Chain (who openly battle the Circle of Thorns), and Longbow (who work with the PPD over at the Skyway City gate). I like seeing the other hero groups trying to hold down the zone; it really does breathe life into the game, especially if you happen to be in a quiet zone where no one else is around.
You can see that in the revamped Faultline, too--PPD officers in New Overbrook are doing their job and reigning in the defiant members of the Lost. I've not been in Overbrook Dam much, but it looked like Longbow's regulars actually get involved in the Sky Raiders/Arachnos fighting that happens there.
The discrepancy between hero group presence in places like Faultline and The Hollows as compared to more normal zones (Atlas Park, Galaxy City, Kings Row, Steel Canyon, Skyway City, Independence Port, Talos Island, etc.) is such that when I visit the normal zones, I find myself wondering why the PPD, Longbow, or Legacy Chain aren't making more of an effort to control crime there.
Speaking of that--it might just be me, but I've noticed that in the Hollows, villain dialogue is more interesting. In the other Hazard Zones, villains seem to rarely speak. If you go to Perez, you'll see huge groups of Hellions and Skulls just hanging out, not saying a word; encounters are more interesting in the Hollows, even if you're just passing by.
You'd expect a zone like Perez to be in the throes of a full-blown gang war between the two groups, or at least see some of them mixing it up ... Perez could do with some Hollows-style quests/arcs involving the gang war there. The issue with Everett Lake, which is only covered by contacts in the level 30-34 range, could also be made into a series of missions or an arc for the lower-leveled crowd.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
As far as Hazard Zones go, the only one I spend a lot of time in is the Hollows. It's got things most of the other hazard zones just don't; a story arc of its own that spans several contacts, a battle with a villain group leader (Frostire), its own hospital, and the Cavern of Transcendence.
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The hazard zones that lack content are: Perez, Boom, TV, DA, CF, and Eden (more or less).
Also, some zones are story zones, while others seem to be more story-neutral. A story zone would be where there is basically a single, multi-layered story told for the zone.
The story zones are: Hollows, Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, Ouroboros, RWZ, Cimerora, and the Shadow Shard.
I'm not sure how to count Peregrine Island, as it is mainly about the portals, but not entirely, and while Eden is obviously focused on the DE, unless I'm mistaken there's not a lot of mission content there. Likewise, Terra Volta has the respec trials, but otherwise not much going on.
The heroic zones that are neither hazard nor story zones are: Atlas, Galaxy, KR, Steel, Skyway, IP, Talos, and Founders'.
Did I miss anything?
Actually, Striga's not bad. It's not usually as populated as The Hollows, and it doesn't have a hospital, but it does have 2 TFs and arcs which give temp powers, which is nice.
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That said--your assessments are right on target. Perez Park, Boomtown, Terra Volta, Dark Astoria, Crey's Folly, and Eden ought to be given some sweet dev lovin'. Give 'em the same kinda treatment the Hollows has, with story-driven arcs, a repeatable contact like Meg Mason, a hospital, and the like. It'd also be nice to see more hero group presence.
I went checking Boomtown just now to see if the Council vs. Fiftth Column battle is in full force there--I'm happy to see that it is. Though, it does bring up something ELSE that's bugged me ...
A number of hero and villain groups (such as the Fifth Column, Council, Arachnos, Longbow, etc.) include characters who are clearly built for ranged combat. Yet for some reason, they seem eager to close ranks like they're melee fighters.
I was watching that in Boomtown. Fifth Column and Council guys would bunch up into a mosh put, all shooting at each other at point blank range, with assault rifles and rocket launchers.
That just kind of ... weirded me out. It might be a nitpick, but one of the minor detail things I'd like to see is have characters who clearly were meant to fight at range try to stay in ranged combat--not immediately rush up and melee just because they have an inherent Brawl ability, but only melee if they have a Scrapper/Stalker or Tanker/Brute rush up and start clobbering them.
Maybe add a ranged substitute for Brawl that they will use if they aren't within range for a melee attack--call it Potshot or something, looks like their normal ranged attack but only has the damage potential/damage type of Brawl.
I was fighting Crey last night and laughing at how the guys would shoot at me once and then run up to pistol-whip me. Does Countess Crey only give these guys one bullet each?
"The good news is that you're all getting new guns. The bad news..."
I was fighting Crey last night and laughing at how the guys would shoot at me once and then run up to pistol-whip me. Does Countess Crey only give these guys one bullet each?
"The good news is that you're all getting new guns. The bad news..." |
To her, they are like Deputy Barney Fife. One bullet, in the pocket, please.
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I think it's probably to make it easier for melee players.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Someone mentioned that the tailor screen shouldn't be modal (that is, take up the whole screen so that you can't do anything else) but modeless (a widow, so that you can access menus and the chat window).
The same should be true for the enhancement management screen. It really blows when I can't see my chat window for tells or that someone's attacking me because I'm managing enhancements in Brickstown and an ambush has shown up or someone's trained a group of baddies nearby who thought I looked like a fun/interesting target.