Amazing Praetoria game mechanics idea!

And exactly why shouldn't they? If they were the ones who intentionally made the game to a point where it was too easy, why shouldn't they also be responsible for making the game challenging again?

I'm not saying that the Devs can't add some more challenging things to the game, but if somebody spends 2 billion influence to make a build, and then finds it too easy, there's a simple way to make it not so anymore.

And they don't even have to gimp themselves to do so, since the game is still balanced around SOs for all existing content. They're merely bringing themselves down to somewhere between baseline level and godmode.

My point is only that if people are worried that they're going to find the game too easy, they can NOT go for all of those purple sets, and have a game that is challenging.

And again, what you are asking for is a lot of work by the Devs to rebalance almost all of the PvE game, versus a little bit of work by you to get what you want.

I guess I'm not seeing what is so broken with the current system that player action couldn't solve.

Sorry, I am not clear what the suggestion is. If you mean Praetoria would be an open PvP zone, that would be a pity, as I'd like to see it, but will not enter an open PvP zone.

I am a very hard core min/maxer when it comes to gaming. I like to make my character the absolute best that I can and play it the best that I can and see how the game challenges me. CoH has never done that - well, it was close when they had the AV regen set really really high back in i6 i believe.

My issue is I shouldn't have to scale back my character just to give myself a challenge, the game should do that for me. I am far from the best player in this game, PvE or PvP, so I would think that there would be a market for more challenging settings.

With all the Sarcastic comments in this thread, I am serious about this: The game is very easy and should be more challenging, and I shouldn't have to play substandard to my very best to get a challenge.

Also, And for the record - adding i13 changes to PvE = one way ticket to frown town

This should be the driving force behind ANYTHING.

I have too much cool stuff in my house, thus everything is boring. I'll work a few less hours, make less money, and be able to afford less cool stuff. (I wish I were so lucky)

You play more, you get more rewards. How is that so complicated? Games like WoW, EQ, and... Umm... ANYTHING realize that the people who put in more time, more effort, and more currency (in game typically) into the beast are going to get more performance.

Turn it up to +8 spawn. You're asking the developers something that you can do yourself by 'gimping'. You see, it's now an issue of to-may-to/to-mah-to. You call it gimping, we call it giving you a challenge. Go solo Reichsman if you're so desperate for one.

You seem to blame everyone but yourself; YOU are the min/maxer, not the devs. YOU are capable of making a character less efficient but certainly not gimped.

I like the game the way it is just fine. I'd rather have nothing changed, especially not adding a BS system that's already failed PVP.

Two words: power creep.


If the Devs made something that was challenging to characters with as many purple set IOs as they could get, they would then clamor for new 'stuff' to make that content less challenging. Then, that content becomes fairly trivial, and we start it all over again.

The game is fairly easy. But when you go and make that game even easier by your own choices, it's not always the Devs that have to fix that. The Devs gave the players tools both to increase their own challenge, and to mitigate some of that challenge. If you want the challenge, you can have it. But if you build for mitigating that challenge, you really can't complain that the game is too easy. You've MADE it too easy. YOU can make it not so much.

I'm sorry but why? I can see the argument for PvP that you want to limit the off-spec power of ATs (i.e. Blasters shouldn't have to much defense, Tankers shouldn't have to much damage) but why is it needed in PvE? Yes plenty of people like to play easy mode because it's fun but there are still challenges out there for even the most IO'd out toon. Simply using the difficulty settings is more than enough for most characters. Yes there are builds that can solo +4/x8 but they're rare and even then there are still challenges available to them. If that's not enough oyu can run TFs with small teams or use the AE to create horrendously powerful custom enemies. Until someone manages to solo a MoSTF claiming that there are no challenges left in PvE is wrong (and even then you could probably use the AE to make something that was more difficult).

I agree that it would be nice to have some decent team challenge settings (x16 spawns!) but just because you want more challenges in PvE is no reason to take away the fun for people that enjoy easy mode.

I do turn the spawns up to 8. I haven't tried to solo Reichsman but Im sure its a challenge. Let me ask you some questions though:

Is there a problem with wanting an AV fight for a team of 8 to be something the team needs to pay attension for?
Is there a problem with wanting a TF to actually challenge the people on it who are playing their best?

There are certain people who like to play final fantasy 8 (Im just using this as an example) and the challenge is to beat the game at the lowest possible level. That isn't a challenge to me. Sure, its hard, but its tedious and boring.

Just once, I would like to take my maxed character with a team built to perfection and have a decent challenge. Is it wrong to want something like that? You seem to think that I am the only one who would want this. Again as I said in my latest post - I would not wish i13 PvP changes on Anyone, any game, or even prison inmates. I think adding these changes to PvE would be a BAD idea. It goes against my way of playing (building the best/playing as best you can/trying your hardest to win/etc). But that doesn't mean that I don't think the game could use a challenge upgrade.

tedious =/= challenge
Time consuming =/= challenge
Not playing to your potential =/= challenge

Would a line in the sand stating

"Here are two or three extra missions that are designed to be insanely hard. Not everyone will be able to complete these. There will be no badges assiociated with doing these missions. They are just designed to be insanely hard."

Be such a bad thing? If its in the game, I, and people like me, will use it. Im not suggesting making the game more challenging for everyone, just people that like to min/max. Its probably more than you realize.

If someone can point me to a MA arc that is freakin impossible to do, I would love to try it with a team. Maybe that's my outlet, I haven't really been active since PvP died. But the whole arguement of "Its your fault its to easy" Just CAN'T be the only answer.

Awesome. Go for it.

While I didn't understand that first part, the second part is simple: There's no problem with wanting a TF for people playing their best.

BUT YOUR best and THEIR best are two different things. I have maybe 4-5 IO sets on my main character, not a single Purple. Just because you're capable of taking on the Freedom Phalanx by yourself doesn't mean the rest of the server is, nor would they want to. I found out that I can nearly solo an AV with my Kat/Regen, so I used the 2nd build to be more team-oriented rather than soloing.

Getting through things as fast as possible is boring, as opposed to weeks of grinding to afford a single IO? I find myself in a cognitive dissonance.

I was reading this, but one thing REALLY stuck out to me...

You built your team to PERFECTION and you expect a challenge?

Let me ask you a question: Why do you min/max yourself?

The answer, undoubtably? The reason why we all level up? To defeat things better, faster, more efficiently.

Are you surprised that it's lonely at the top? That after you perfect getting 8 uberplayers together there are no more challenges for the group?
You spend all of your time being better and better and better and then you're finally as good as you get and you're surprised no one else is?

Let me tell you something about 'challenges' for characters such as yours: Your 'challenge' is my 'impossible' and you alienate the 98% of players that don't find it 'challenging'.

Your challenges =/= my challenges

I don't know of any but it should be pretty simple to make some. Make a group of custom enemies with all powers (ok, maybe leave off the god-mode powers in the armor sets since those are just annoying). Give the group a wide range of different powersets so that whatever defenses you have at least some will counter it. The AI for buffing and debuffing is a little iffy so you might want to try mostly Blast/Armor or Melee/Armor. If you're running a team with limited mez protection maybe try a Control/Something set for the defender sets you'll probably want the ones with debuff powers. Add some Pet/something bosses (or even LTs). Maybe have a few Blast/Devices with Caltrops, Smoke Grenades and Targeting Drones.

Alternatively try making custom groups comprised of the more problematic members of standard factions. A custom group of Carnies and Malta should give most characters pause.

If all else fails, make a custom group comprised solely of the biggest, baddest meanest EBs you can. Sure you'll get horrible rewards but you can't deny that it would be a challenge.

Probably the only thing we can agree on. We are just two completely different types of players. That's not a bad thing, it means the game is diverse enough to attract multiple types of gamers.

We're way off track from the point of this sarcastic post but I guess my point, which might you might not be able to get (Not meant in snark, we are just completely different gamers) is that even though I have a toon built to perfection and a team built to perfection and I am playing my best - I would hope that it would still be tough. I guess I am looking for the heroic moment when the mission is so close to failure yet you manage to pull out the win in the end. Sure, I can engineer that scenario, but it just isnt the same for me.


Anyways, back on topic I guess

Ill try that, thanks!

It's much easier and cheaper to implement DR than it is to build challenging content that still works on the basis of builds running on SOs.

That is all.

Ummm no it's not. This is per the devs.

They tried it once and found many bugs that allowed them not to implement it.

And who says new challenging content has to be built around SOs?

/unsigned

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and for clarity's sake

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I disagree with the assertion that it would be easier to implement. But in any case it's irrelevant since the majority of the player base does not particularly want either DR or challenging content. If there's one thing developers should learn from NGE it's that making major changes to the mechanics of an established game is a good way to lose customers. From what I've heard that almost happened back when ED was introduced but overall I think ED was good for the game (if a bit heavy handed) whereas I see no real benefit to DR.

Now this will probably be considered heresy by some but I actually wouldn't mind some content being balanced around IOs as long as it doesn't give greater rewards, doesn't award any new badges and doesn't lock SO'd players out of content. My suggestion would actually be to copy from WoW and introduce "Heroic" versions of some of the higher level TFs that feature significantly tougher enemies and AVs but still award the same merits/badges as the existing TFs. This way people who want a challenging TF can get it but people who just want to play the TF for fun, merits or badges can still do so without feeling like they're missing something.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it a way already exists to do this to some extent in game. Run a TF with the Players Debuffed and Enemies Buffed challenge settings.

I have a very hard time believing you support this position. I seem to recall you supporting the farmer's point of view in the AE debacle, which would lead me to believe you may also not be hard-pressed for inf, rendering a lot of your earlier arguments subjectively pointless.

Now that sounds like a great idea!

Anyone that thinks reworking the basic system is easier than creating challenging content needs to pass around whatever they are smokin'.

Since the players themselves can already with the tools in AE, create more challenging content, the Devs could certainly do it fairly rapidly. As mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, they have even stated that no existing content will be adjusted to IOs but left the door open for new content.

Obviously, the recent changes in the difficulty sliders are a step in this direction but I think they got pulled for TFs.

Along these same lines, at GR the Devs said that the new ways to make your 50th level characters more powerful would allow them to 'trivialize' the current content. Certainly that will come with more challenging content, don't you think?