Amazing Praetoria game mechanics idea!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-11-29 23:21 in Suggestions and Ideas
no. That's not an amazing idea. That's a I'd like to see City of Heroes crash and burn faster than Tabula Rasa idea.
Seriously. did Tabula Rasa or Star Wars NGE not teach anybody just how much of a bad idea it is to change the base gameplay on a large scale?
It's an extreme loss for over over an estimated 99% of the paying base... WHICH DOES NOT PARTAKE IN PVP PLAY AT ALL.
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Some PvPvE content might be good although the devs really need to do something to balance PvP first since currently unless you have a PvP specific build (which is VERY different from a PvE build) you have basically zero chance.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
For GR they should apply the exact same rules in Praetoria that we currently have for PvP. This would not only provide players with a refreshing new level of challenge, but would also allow them to experience and get comfortable with these mechanics in a safe environment which will make them less apprehensive to step foot into the Arena or a PvP zone.
If this were to happen it would become a win/win situation for both the PvE and PvP community. Also, please throw in some PvPvE content as well just like they have in Aion. |
However any such content should still be purely optional, adding it to the existing PvP zones would be a much better option than forcing it on players in city zones. As je_saist said the majority of the CoX playerbase has zero interest in PvP and forcing them to participate as part of normal content will not change that.
Implementing this idea will increase long-term PvE retention numbers and improve the overall health of PvP. PvE win/PvP win/More $ for NCsoft win!
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
Implementing this idea will increase long-term PvE retention numbers
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Aha ha ha ha ha
*wipes away tears*
Oooh ha ha aha aha ha ha
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Can you back this up with anything resembling factual information?
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Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
Implementing this idea will increase long-term PvE retention numbers and improve the overall health of PvP. PvE win/PvP win/More $ for NCsoft win!
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BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
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PvP can go to hell for all I care, but this change would very much break PvP and cause many people to leave. The PvP ruleset is a mess, but more importantly, it's a major step DOWN in power. Its intended to depower everyone and bring them all a bit closer in performance, but depowering people in PvP by this much is a guarantee for massive account cancellation the likes which even ED hasn't dreamed of.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
Implementing this idea will increase long-term PvE retention numbers and improve the overall health of PvP. PvE win/PvP win/More $ for NCsoft win!
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Please never speak of this terrible idea ever again.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I am going to go out on a limb here and assume, unlike those posting above me, that this post is totally tongue-in-cheek and 100% sarcasm.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
For GR they should apply the exact same rules in Praetoria that we currently have for PvP. This would not only provide players with a refreshing new level of challenge, but would also allow them to experience and get comfortable with these mechanics in a safe environment which will make them less apprehensive to step foot into the Arena or a PvP zone.
If this were to happen it would become a win/win situation for both the PvE and PvP community. Also, please throw in some PvPvE content as well just like they have in Aion. |
If not? Then I started laughing already...
What a fantastic idea! PvE is far to easy as it is. Adding a harsh DR curve would bring some balance back to the PvE game and remove such a gap between the high end IO builds and the SO builds.
How refreshing it would be to not have to worry about bringing along a support toon to TF's or PuGs.
I really hope they fix the bug with Kinetics granting unsupressed movement, it is unfair the PvPers get such prompt bug fixes but us PvEers have to put up with buggy kinetics powers.
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
Executing path; Point_Laugh.exe
Initiating: Tear_Ducts.sys
Ordering: SearchandDestroy.exe
Answer: No
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You're right--this is an amazing idea!
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.
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Amazingly bad. Really, really hope this is a joke. Pretty sure it is, though.
Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika
I know, you know and especially the Devs know that PvE in this game is far too easy mode for its' own good. We also know that if new levels of challenge are not given to players the game grows stagnant. Boring easy mode only holds someones retention for so long.
As far as facts are concerned, I’ll have to look around for it or if someone could kindly provide a quote, in total the Devs had received more positive feedback about the PvP revamp through PMs than combined total negative feedback. Sorry but that means that are way more loyalists for these types of game mechanics out there then there are resistance members going against it.
Also keep in mind that this would not be an entire game wide change, these rules would only apply to GR and PvP.
Having player desired and approved mechanics like these in GR makes complete sense for the bigger picture. It will add a new layer of challenge, more fun, hold up retention numbers and provide an avenue that develops player confidence to participate in the end game content known as PvP.
If you are really sitting there thinking to yourself that the Devs do not want to throw in different mechanics into to the game to challenge players you are sorely mistaken. The PvP revamp is there for a reason. Look at the difficulty level of Reichsman. See what they are doing with holiday events?
Go ahead sit back and flame, troll and laugh all you want but you can’t fight the inevitable evolution that is occurring.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
For GR they should apply the exact same rules in Praetoria that we currently have for PvP. This would not only provide players with a refreshing new level of challenge, but would also allow them to experience and get comfortable with these mechanics in a safe environment which will make them less apprehensive to step foot into the Arena or a PvP zone.
If this were to happen it would become a win/win situation for both the PvE and PvP community. Also, please throw in some PvPvE content as well just like they have in Aion. |
I don't have the time, money nor inclination to outfit my toons with the best IOs.
The great thing about the current PvP system is that features like Diminishing Returns even the playing field by reducing the benefits IOs offer.
When I play a villain or hero I want to be just as bad *** as the next player. I hate how IO benefits often define how badass a player is. I believe there should be more of a effort from developers to correct this disparity between players and instituting a feature like diminishing returns is the right way to go.
It isn't fair that the casual player can't be as uber as the hardcore gamer in PvE. I believe everyone would agree with this.
Also many new players won't like the huge difference between PvE and PvP once GR comes out. I believe this will help new players transition between PvE and PvP if both parts of the game are more similar.
This is a step in the right direction. Great idea.
/signed
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I don't agree with you that this should only apply to GR. It would be much more beneficial if it were applied to the entire game.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
I know, you know and especially the Devs know that PvE in this game is far too easy mode for its' own good. We also know that if new levels of challenge are not given to players the game grows stagnant. Boring easy mode only holds someones retention for so long.
As far as facts are concerned, Ill have to look around for it or if someone could kindly provide a quote, in total the Devs had received more positive feedback about the PvP revamp through PMs than combined total negative feedback. Sorry but that means that are way more loyalists for these types of game mechanics out there then there are resistance members going against it. Also keep in mind that this would not be an entire game wide change, these rules would only apply to GR and PvP. Having player desired and approved mechanics like these in GR makes complete sense for the bigger picture. It will add a new layer of challenge, more fun, hold up retention numbers and provide an avenue that develops player confidence to participate in the end game content known as PvP. If you are really sitting there thinking to yourself that the Devs do not want to throw in different mechanics into to the game to challenge players you are sorely mistaken. The PvP revamp is there for a reason. Look at the difficulty level of Reichsman. See what they are doing with holiday events? Go ahead sit back and flame, troll and laugh all you want but you cant fight the inevitable evolution that is occurring. |
It's frustrating being a new player and finding out you need the best IOs to be as uber as the senior PvE players. It takes months to acquire the rigth IOs and people like me don't really want to put the effort or time into grinding just for IOs.
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Agreed here, it's silly how Kins allow people to bypass travel suppression, allowing them to kite groups of NPCs with no risk to themselves. In fact, wasn't that why they added travel suppression in the first place? Doesn't make sense for certain powers to bypass something that was put in place for balance restrictions...|
Originally Posted by Mirage_Mage
I really hope they fix the bug with Kinetics granting unsupressed movement, it is unfair the PvPers get such prompt bug fixes but us PvEers have to put up with buggy kinetics powers.
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Oh, and giving squishies free resistance to everything means the Sonics and Therms wouldn't have to come to the forums complaining about having to re-shield everyone every 4 minutes!
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Rhetoric? Hyperbole? I'm not sure if this post is serious or sarcastic.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
no. That's not an amazing idea. That's a I'd like to see City of Heroes crash and burn faster than Tabula Rasa idea.
Seriously. did Tabula Rasa or Star Wars NGE not teach anybody just how much of a bad idea it is to change the base gameplay on a large scale? It's an extreme loss for over over an estimated 99% of the paying base... WHICH DOES NOT PARTAKE IN PVP PLAY AT ALL. |
Perhaps it's time for a PvPvE crossgrade
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Okay, first off, you don't need IOs to do anything in this game. You do not need to IO out your character. You wanting to do so isn't really the fault of the Devs. They gave you the means to do so, if you wanted, but you still don't need to.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I agree.
I don't have the time, money nor inclination to outfit my toons with the best IOs. The great thing about the current PvP system is that features like Diminishing Returns even the playing field by reducing the benefits IOs offer. When I play a villain or hero I want to be just as bad *** as the next player. I hate how IO benefits often define how badass a player is. I believe there should be more of a effort from developers to correct this disparity between players and instituting a feature like diminishing returns is the right way to go. It isn't fair that the casual player can't be as uber as the hardcore gamer in PvE. I believe everyone would agree with this. Also many new players won't like the huge difference between PvE and PvP once GR comes out. I believe this will help new players transition between PvE and PvP if both parts of the game are more similar. This is a step in the right direction. Great idea. /signed |
If other players kick you for not having enough IOs, that is not the Devs fault, that is THOSE players.
Specifically, this point:
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| It isn't fair that the casual player can't be as uber as the hardcore gamer in PvE. I believe everyone would agree with this. |
You're basically saying that it would be more fair for doctors and McDonald's counter staff to make the same amount of money, despite the fact that one went to school for much longer. It doesn't make sense.
This game, like most games, rewards you for playing. That makes sense, doesn't it? And sense you don't need those rewards to play, the system is fine as is.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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You are free to challenege yourself in this game as it is now. You can try to solo maps spawned for a +4 character with 8 player's worth of enemies in the map. If you don't think that is challenging, then I'd like for you to show me you doing it easily. Not everyone can do that, and it should be challenging to do and to get a character that can do it easily.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
I know, you know and especially the Devs know that PvE in this game is far too easy mode for its' own good. We also know that if new levels of challenge are not given to players the game grows stagnant. Boring easy mode only holds someones retention for so long.
As far as facts are concerned, Ill have to look around for it or if someone could kindly provide a quote, in total the Devs had received more positive feedback about the PvP revamp through PMs than combined total negative feedback. Sorry but that means that are way more loyalists for these types of game mechanics out there then there are resistance members going against it. Also keep in mind that this would not be an entire game wide change, these rules would only apply to GR and PvP. Having player desired and approved mechanics like these in GR makes complete sense for the bigger picture. It will add a new layer of challenge, more fun, hold up retention numbers and provide an avenue that develops player confidence to participate in the end game content known as PvP. If you are really sitting there thinking to yourself that the Devs do not want to throw in different mechanics into to the game to challenge players you are sorely mistaken. The PvP revamp is there for a reason. Look at the difficulty level of Reichsman. See what they are doing with holiday events? Go ahead sit back and flame, troll and laugh all you want but you cant fight the inevitable evolution that is occurring. |
Changing game mechanics for new players, when they choose one side or the other, versus the new neutral starting point, would be very confusing. If your idea was implemented, a new person joining, starting two identical characters (1 hero-side, one in GR), would have to completely different number systems staring them in the face. Their powers, identically slotted, would have two different effects. How would that help them?
The Devs DO want to challenege players, but this is not the way to go.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I'm sorry, but your lack of willingness to go out there and do the same thing for the same rewards as everyone else isn't the Dev's problem.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I don't agree with you that this should only apply to GR. It would be much more beneficial if it were applied to the entire game.
It's frustrating being a new player and finding out you need the best IOs to be as uber as the senior PvE players. It takes months to acquire the rigth IOs and people like me don't really want to put the effort or time into grinding just for IOs. |
Most new players aren't looking to be uber right away.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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If you want to perform as well as those "uber" builds yes, you do need to IO out your character. People with lots of IOs are prefered over people who don't because many leaders equate "experience" with what you have in the form of IO sets.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Okay, first off, you don't need IOs to do anything in this game. You do not need to IO out your character. You wanting to do so isn't really the fault of the Devs. They gave you the means to do so, if you wanted, but you still don't need to.
If other players kick you for not having enough IOs, that is not the Devs fault, that is THOSE players. |
So yes, it does make a significant difference. While it may not be the Devs fault, I believe they (the devs) agree that new players and players that don't want to IO out their builds should be just as effective as those that do want to IO out their toons.
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| No. Absolutely not. If somebody spends 10 times as much time with you in-game, they SHOULD have better stuff than you. Why is that not fair? That's absolutely fair. They spend more time playing that you do. |
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You're basically saying that it would be more fair for doctors and McDonald's counter staff to make the same amount of money, despite the fact that one went to school for much longer. It doesn't make sense. This game, like most games, rewards you for playing. That makes sense, doesn't it? And sense you don't need those rewards to play, the system is fine as is. |
Everyone should be able to have fun even if they prefer not to IO out their toons. By reducing the benefits IO sets offer, it will help begin to even the playing field so that regular players don't feel they need to compete with other players by making "uber" IO builds.
I think its a refreshing take on an aging game. The PvE content is easily exploited with certain powerset combos clearing outperforming others. With this implementation everyone is free to explore their non fotm toons from things like farming to taking out GMs and AVs solo.
If everything is brought more into line with each other, I wont have to look for certain ATs and powersets to run my MoSTF and get my shiny badge.
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Also! The positive effect it will have on the market, prices will fall dramatically. Everyone hates high prices.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
Everyone should be able to have fun even if they prefer not to IO out their toons. By reducing the benefits IO sets offer, it will help begin to even the playing field so that regular players don't feel they need to compete with other players by making "uber" IO builds. |
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I'm sorry, but your lack of willingness to go out there and do the same thing for the same rewards as everyone else isn't the Dev's problem.
Most new players aren't looking to be uber right away. |
Most new players ARE looking to be just as effective in PvE as senior players.
By toning down the "uber" builds new players won't feel as threatened or left out from teaming.
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How to make a bind for the "quit" button? |
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
provide players with a refreshing new level of challenge
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While I think - and hope - GR will bring some new things to PvP, including possibly a new PvP zone, most of GR is very much story-driven, which makes it very unsuitable for PvP - the whole idea of moral choices and shifting between good and evil is designed as a PvE experience.
A good expansion should have content that reflects the playerbase - which means GR should have the majority of its content as PvE, but not totally leave out PvP either.
It should have stuff for PvEers, badge hunters, crafters, RPers and PvPers - the more players it has something for, the more successful it'll be - but when PvP is done by a small part of the playerbase, PvPers shouldn't expect GR to have more than a small bit of PvP content in it.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
This also makes complete sense from an RP standpoint because that would explain why the Praetorian counterparts to our signature heroes and villains are not as powerful in certain ways.
Wow, it's so amazingly interesting how all this fits together!
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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For GR they should apply the exact same rules in Praetoria that we currently have for PvP. This would not only provide players with a refreshing new level of challenge, but would also allow them to experience and get comfortable with these mechanics in a safe environment which will make them less apprehensive to step foot into the Arena or a PvP zone.
If this were to happen it would become a win/win situation for both the PvE and PvP community.
Also, please throw in some PvPvE content as well just like they have in Aion.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670