Also, am I the only one that considers stuff like psionics and empathy to be one of those "natural" sets that "regular" humans can take, in the same vein as crazy acrobatic martial arts, enormous ninja leaps, and chi blasts?
I mean, we live in a fantasy world so I see nothing inherently wrong with taking the movie/anime approach and saying that humans can be telekinetics and learn to fly with the right training.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Super Reflexes Stalker. His horse was shot out from under him and he took four bullets through his coat without getting hit once in the French-Indian War. His two most memorable tactical actions during the Revolutionary War were a sneak attack on Trenton and a stealthy escape from Long Island.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
George Washington INV/SS tank, Obviously took hurl look at all the stories about him tossing coins across the Ptomac.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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But with recent advancements in Alpha Wave Antitacheon Theory, the money you'll have accumulated after 20 and retiring won't be enough to last you the rest of your life unless you're living in Queens.
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Originally Posted by Bitt_Player
In 20 years I'll be retired, thanks to my degree in Self-Sufficient Profit-Based String Theorism. So
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Nope. I agree that psionics, etc., are believably natural in the context of this game. But then, I already stated that I don't limit myself like firespray does.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Also, am I the only one that considers stuff like psionics and empathy to be one of those "natural" sets that "regular" humans can take, in the same vein as crazy acrobatic martial arts, enormous ninja leaps, and chi blasts?
I mean, we live in a fantasy world so I see nothing inherently wrong with taking the movie/anime approach and saying that humans can be telekinetics and learn to fly with the right training. |
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Totally agree with this. My main hero hails from an alternate dimension where everyone is biologically identical to Paragon Earth, but a martial arts master was able to unlock the powers of ki/chi/chakra (pick your favorite martial arts or anime reference, but I prefer "ki" myself). Chad trained under the master and learned to become incredibly fast, strong and even learned how to fly.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Also, am I the only one that considers stuff like psionics and empathy to be one of those "natural" sets that "regular" humans can take, in the same vein as crazy acrobatic martial arts, enormous ninja leaps, and chi blasts?
I mean, we live in a fantasy world so I see nothing inherently wrong with taking the movie/anime approach and saying that humans can be telekinetics and learn to fly with the right training. |
At the same time, he fights using an enchanted katana. However, the katana offers no benefits over any other katana when in combat, except that it never dulls and can be stored in a pocket dimension when not in use and summoned by calling its name when needed.
I decided that since most of his abilities come from his training and enhancing his body and spirit to their peak, that he should definitely be of Natural origin. I got a lot of complaints in the first 6 months after the game released, saying that I was playing him wrong and that he should have been "Magic," blah blah blah. He doesn't cast spells, he doesn't even need the enchanted sword to fight, so I say he's Natural.
To further confuse things, my main villain is a Katana/SR Stalker with roughly the same background, only he stole a prototype cloaking device, which is clearly Technology. But he's also the proud owner of an enchanted katana, which, again, is only enchanted to never dull and can be stored in another dimension when not in use. And again, since his inherent powers are due to neither the cloaking device nor the enchanted sword, I consider him to be of Natural origin.
(Things get a little confusing in the later levels, when he learns Soul Mastery from Ghost Widow... but in my opinion, he uses his own spirit to subjugate the ki left behind by the deceased and force it to his will.)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I chuckled. This is the world of interdimensional war and steam-powered super-villains. I think you lucked out.|
Originally Posted by firespray
"Natural Control Powerset" - One that could be realistically used by a normal, non-enhanced human being, and doesn't include any extremely unrealistic technology.
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Also, on the question of psionics being used with Natural; Given VEAT Widows are Natural origin, and get psionics, I guess the official answer is yes to that.
Any powerset can work with any origin.
It's called Creativity.
But I'll never say no to more options. Options are Good. With a capital G.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I would have agreed with you more if your complaint was that it was a NINJA Booster pack and not a Martial Arts booster pack. |
Originally Posted by MLEdelen
This is a game of SUPER HEROES!!! Not a ninja game. Before the last booster pack we have ninja costumes, samari (misspelled i know), Karate outfits, fighter costumeset, Kungfu Master Costumeset, Stealth, , and with all that we have powersets of Martial Arts, Dual Blades, Katana, Broadsword.... On top of that, we have military costumes with military guns (guns are not powers), and archery (which ninjas also use).
Can we please get more powers and costumes more related to Super Heroes? Maybe the ability to change my fire/kin into living fire form. |
Too much ninja, and not enough martial arts for my tastes.
I do find this booster very lacking on may counts.
I am a BIG fan of MARTIAL ARTS and I most probably WILL NOT get his booster pack because I do not want it - and that is a shame.
What would have made me want to get this booster pack?
Martial arts weapons from around the world.
Martial arts costuming from various countries.
A better straw hat(s)!
Where's my turban!?
Wu Xia much?
What makes me not want to get it?
Paying for the prestige sprint. Paying for a power like this is a step in the wrong direction for this game. The Ninja Sprint is far superior to sprint and gives what appears to be even greater advantages than Combat Jumping.
Too much focus on Ninja.
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What LL you expect someone to use their imagination? Next you will tell me to think outside the box!! Madness |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Here's my question for this thread, since you never actually asked one (rhetorical questions don't count).
Have you looked at the pieces from the booster pack? In my estimation, if you had, and had given it a little thought, you would have seen just how easy it is to apply most of the new pieces to other origins and types of hero, and have them look fantastic. They mix incredibly well with older pieces and let you do a lot of things better than you could before. I have a robot for whom the gloves and boots look incredible when matched with a Tech skin. Sonic Vision goggles look like great robotic eyes. I have several magic users for whom the detailed versions of the Terra and Warrior robes look very arcane. I have several weapon users for whom the armor pieces look great as an alternative to the ones we have. I have a character who is a Lobster creature for whom the new helmet looks closer to the armored plating of a real lobster than anything we had before. So yeah, I'm telling you if you're just going by the name of the pack and the pictures used in the advertisement, you are plain, flat out, completely wrong. |
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I believe you're mistaken on the nature of the power. Ninja Run is a poor man's travel power. It's not designed to be anything else.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Paying for the prestige sprint. Paying for a power like this is a step in the wrong direction for this game. The Ninja Sprint is far superior to sprint and gives what appears to be even greater advantages than Combat Jumping.
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It looks really cool, and with the right investment it can be faster than Fly. But it's still not as fast as SS, and doesn't let you jump anywhere near as high as SJ. It is inherently better than not having a travel power. But it's not as good as having a real travel power. The power slot may be worth it to you. I have about 2 out of 26 characters that I decided could get by with NR alone.
NR is faster than Sprint and CJ, true. It also costs tons of endurance more. NR is 0.46 end, while CJ is 0.07. It also suppresses in combat, which CJ and Sprint don't do. If you use NR in combat, you'll burn tons of endurance and generally speaking have no movement advantage. You also won't have the defense or the immobilize protection that CJ offers.
You're kind of comparing CJ to SJ and saying that SJ is way better because you move faster. It heavily depends on what you're doing. NR is way better... for a travel power. But in no way comes close to doing what CJ offers for in-combat situations. It is also better than Sprint, but STACKS with Sprint. It also costs close to twice what Sprint does.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Hm... Well, you have a point. Good thing I minored in Advanced Freeloading!
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
But with recent advancements in Alpha Wave Antitacheon Theory, the money you'll have accumulated after 20 and retiring won't be enough to last you the rest of your life unless you're living in Queens.
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BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
Lemme guess. You're too young to have ever seen a Sho Kosugi flick right?
Not damning you or being age-bigoted. Just stating that you haven't seen some of his ninja flicks.
Just because someone isn't chucking energy bolts from their *BLEEP!* doesn't mean they're not "super".
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I think you're missing a few things (for instance, chinese weapons, not ninja,) but - well, I think you need a closer look at the pack.
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First, ask yourself - "To go with what?" This is a booster pack - costumes, emotes, tiny power. There's not going to be a new powerset involved - that's for issues and expansions. |
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
What would have made me want to get this booster pack?
Martial arts weapons from around the world. |
Other kicks, punches and the like? Well, not really weapons - and we just *did* get those.
Swords? Included. Three Chinese styles, actually.
Staves? Again - to go with what? (This, really, is my question to go with most of the things I can think of as "martial arts equipment" - what would use it?)
Since you "dont' want ninja," I'm assuming no shuriken (which are in some sets anyway.)
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Martial arts costuming from various countries. A better straw hat(s)! Where's my turban!? Wu Xia much? |
I've got to be honest, most of what I see in the pack doesn't say "Ninja" to me - I could make quite a passable one just using the free pieces in the costume creator now.
Go to the wiki page, look at the costumes, and tell me how much of this is really "ninja" versus - well, rather open use.
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What makes me not want to get it? Paying for the prestige sprint. Paying for a power like this is a step in the wrong direction for this game. The Ninja Sprint is far superior to sprint and gives what appears to be even greater advantages than Combat Jumping. Too much focus on Ninja. |
Sidenote:
This thread in mind, it would be nice to have yet another set of custimization... for animations!
Buying the ninja pack could unlock that jump, so you'd be able to use that animation as your default, regardless of if you are using a jump power or not. That would be cool.
I have a certain amount of sympathy with the OP.
I'm not against martial arts per se, nor am I against natural heroes in any way at all. (In fact Scarlet Shocker is natural origin.)
However there does appear to be a prevalent attitude amongst the devs that natual = martial arts, and way to much steerage towards an oriental origin. I totally get what the OP means by that although I think the cossie options are good and can be used across the board.
But, if we take our blinkers off, we can look at other "natural" (and araguably more westernised) forms of combat, boxing, wrestling, and somewhere in the middle perhaps various forms of gatka etc.
There are plenty of alternative choices, that could be easily exploited for this game and I'd like to see that.
Thelonious Monk
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Madcap and his bubble guns?
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
The problem is that there are so many different kinds of weapons that can be wielded in melee. A hero could use a sword OR a mace OR a hammer OR a staff OR any many other examples from the comics in hand to hand, but there's only a machine gun, pistols or a bow at range. (Maybe a laser pistol, or a zap gun or something like that, but that's not a "conventional" weapon) And how many Controllers do you see in the comics going around shooting people with Glue Guns and using Gas Grenades to disorient and confuse them? It would be a cool Power Set, I think, but there's really no precedent in the comics.
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Mental gymnastics are good for you.
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Originally Posted by firespray
Wouldn't it be nice to have a control set that fit the 'just a normal guy' archetype without all that mental gymnastics?
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City of Heroes taught me that when the world is burning, you don't just stand by and watch, you grab a fire extinguisher and do whatever you can to stop it-even if it's not much at all. Sign the petition to keep City of Heroes alive HERE.
@MissKyo, Leader of the Teamsters coalition on Protector
Shooting people isn't very heroic
But blasting them with fire, freezing them, and lighting them up with so much radiation that you could power a city with it is?
I love it when these kinda of threads come up. Reminds me of the guy who attempted to wage a jihad against Dual Blades.
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
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Now that would have been funny if his jihad was using scimitars
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Originally Posted by Nightphall
Shooting people isn't very heroic
But blasting them with fire, freezing them, and lighting them up with so much radiation that you could power a city with it is? I love it when these kinda of threads come up. Reminds me of the guy who attempted to wage a jihad against Dual Blades. |
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psssssstttt...boxing is a martial art. As is wrestling. Martial arts aren't specifically asian, although people tend to use it that way. But "martial arts" can refer to most any fighting practice, including those using weapons.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I have a certain amount of sympathy with the OP.
I'm not against martial arts per se, nor am I against natural heroes in any way at all. (In fact Scarlet Shocker is natural origin.) However there does appear to be a prevalent attitude amongst the devs that natual = martial arts, and way to much steerage towards an oriental origin. I totally get what the OP means by that although I think the cossie options are good and can be used across the board. But, if we take our blinkers off, we can look at other "natural" (and araguably more westernised) forms of combat, boxing, wrestling, and somewhere in the middle perhaps various forms of gatka etc. There are plenty of alternative choices, that could be easily exploited for this game and I'd like to see that. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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You're the last person I expected to get hung up on the use of a descriptive word as something that limited your imagination when it came to costume parts. You should have read my post before replying to the thread.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I would have agreed with you more if your complaint was that it was a NINJA Booster pack and not a Martial Arts booster pack.
Too much ninja, and not enough martial arts for my tastes. I do find this booster very lacking on may counts. I am a BIG fan of MARTIAL ARTS and I most probably WILL NOT get his booster pack because I do not want it - and that is a shame. What would have made me want to get this booster pack? Martial arts weapons from around the world. Martial arts costuming from various countries. A better straw hat(s)! Where's my turban!? Wu Xia much? What makes me not want to get it? Paying for the prestige sprint. Paying for a power like this is a step in the wrong direction for this game. The Ninja Sprint is far superior to sprint and gives what appears to be even greater advantages than Combat Jumping. Too much focus on Ninja. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Hardly.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Paying for the prestige sprint. Paying for a power like this is a step in the wrong direction for this game. The Ninja Sprint is far superior to sprint and gives what appears to be even greater advantages than Combat Jumping.
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1) It costs approx double the END of Sprint and MANY TIMES what Combat Jumping costs.
2) Ninja Run suppresses in combat. Neither Sprint nor CJ suppress in combat.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by MLEdelen
Batman doesn't use guns
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Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
That's a grappling hook launcher, you pillock.
Don't believe we mentioned the guns had to shoot bullets... =P
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Sure, it's possible to come up with a concept that would let you define pretty much any powerset as 'natural' if you wanted to. But that doesn't change the fact that if you want to play a normal human character with no superpowers, some powersets fit that archetype better than others.
You said yourself that most of the concepts of a non-superpowered human controller fit better into a tech or science origin (i.e. a normal dude using advanced technology). Wouldn't it be nice to have a control set that fit the 'just a normal guy' archetype without all that mental gymnastics?
Not that I'm conceding the idea that "natural" can't be extended to any powerset the player wants it to be extended to. You can limit yourself however you want, but don't expect the rest of us to play that game with you.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."