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Rofl |
Originally Posted by Dispari
In the immortal words of B_I, those don't count.
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Kryptonite for the power set ? |
Originally Posted by B_L_Angel;2409994 Quote:
Originally Posted by [B Arcanaville[/B]
 I'd be willing to take this suggestion more seriously if you can provide a definition for a "natural control powerset." I think the walk power on the proper female toon qualifies. |
Edit: These guys would be like voids and quants for khelds.
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Natural doesn't mean "guns"
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Originally Posted by MLEdelen
Batman doesn't use guns
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
Wow. Talk about limiting concepts with no explanation other than lack of imagination.
Any powerset can be classified as any origin to better flesh out your character. That's why they gave us origins in the first place The only limits are the ones you place on yourself.
Let's use Invulnerability as an example, since someone doesn't consider that a 'super' power.
Natural: Invulnerability is the result of racial differences from humans.
Magic: Invulnerability is the result of powerful spells.
Mutant: Normal human develops latent characteristics of Invulnerability.
Science: Invulnerability is the result of a freak accident in the lab.
Technology: Invulnerability is the result of nanobots injected into the body.
These are not particularly original concepts. Geeze, expand your mind a little.
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I have a character that I have 5 versions of.|
Originally Posted by Moiread
Wow. Talk about limiting concepts with no explanation other than lack of imagination.
Any powerset can be classified as any origin to better flesh out your character. That's why they gave us origins in the first place The only limits are the ones you place on yourself. |
Energy/Energy/Force Blaster
Electric/Invuln Brute
Radiation/Traps/Mace Corruptor
Energy Melee/Willpower/Mu Brute
Super Strength/Elec Armor/Mu Brute
She's natural in all her forms. For her race, it's natural to be able to form and manipulate energy in a variety of ways. She can fly, she has super strength and super speed, and can form energy into all sorts of physical attacks (energy, radiation, electric) as well as use it to shield herself with forcefields or more solid energy barriers such as with Invuln. She's also a bit of a tech-head so she has a few gadgets and toys she throws around.
I could still make more versions of her that are Martial Arts, Super Reflexes, Electric Blast, Devices, Fire Blast/Melee/Armor (hot plasmatic energy), Force Field, or Shield Defense (with energy/elec shield). I could even make her a human-only Peacebringer for the visuals. And if we ever get female minions, I could make her a Mastermind with groupies.
And that's a very wide variety of sets, with just one character concept.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You forgot Growth, which was a first or second pick in terms of popularity, but has proven unfeasible technically.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
In all fairness, all the sets you named were requested by players. The devs made a list of new sets that they were willing to make. Among the list were things like electric hammer, psi melee, and forcefield defense. The players chose dual blades and shields, with willpower slightly behind shield.
You can hardly blame the devs for making too many natural sets when they actually left it up to players to decide, and players chose natural sets. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I once again will bring up the term "Skill Based" I use to describe all those heroes with no super powers that don't fall into the "Natural" category of aliens, non-humans, or those who have unlocked incredible powers through their mystical training.
And you can still regard a lot of Power Sets as Skill Based. Invulnerability is skill based if you are wearing a suit of armor. Super Reflexes is skill based if you are a martial artist. Illusion Control is skill based if you are using "smoke and mirrors". It all depends on your ability to role play your powers, and to an extent ignore some of the graphic effects.
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While I can agree with this, it gets back to what I said in my previous post. The problem is that there are so many different kinds of weapons that can be wielded in melee. A hero could use a sword OR a mace OR a hammer OR a staff OR any many other examples from the comics in hand to hand, but there's only a machine gun, pistols or a bow at range. (Maybe a laser pistol, or a zap gun or something like that, but that's not a "conventional" weapon) And how many Controllers do you see in the comics going around shooting people with Glue Guns and using Gas Grenades to disorient and confuse them? It would be a cool Power Set, I think, but there's really no precedent in the comics. |
Originally Posted by Firespray
I'd really like to see this evened out more, with no more natural sets for scrappers and tankers, and a couple more in other areas, especially for controllers and blaster's secondaries.
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I WOULD like to see Blaster Secondaries and Dominator Secondaries that use weapons, melee weapons for both, and ranged weapons for Dominators. Then again, melee weapons used by Blasters and Dominators would double the amount of redraw if used with a ranged weapon, so there is a gameplay reason to avoid that, as well as the time required to design so many powersets. It would probably be simpler to just use Martial Arts in melee, and leave the hands free for whatever the choice of ranged weapon is.
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Gas attacks. You could have a choking gas, a sleep gas, etc. There's even an example in film - The Spleen in 'Mystery Men'. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'd be willing to take this suggestion more seriously if you can provide a definition for a "natural control powerset."
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
My Katana/Regen Scrapper is Magic origin - her sword is a magical construct/artifact.
My AR/Dev Blaster is Mutant origin - she uses an Assault Rifle, but her "super" powers are her ability to Fly and take more damage than the average person on the streets.
As most are saying, origin is a hook to base your bio on, not something inherent in a particular powerset.
As for the themed Boosters - all of my characters can blow themselves up (via "Self Destruct" from the Tech booster), but the reason/mechanic of what is happening in each case is different based on what I dreamed up for the character.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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The Spleen was magic origin: his powers were the result of a curse placed on him when he commented on the fart of an old Gypsy woman. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Gas attacks. You could have a choking gas, a sleep gas, etc. There's even an example in film - The Spleen in 'Mystery Men'.
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"Because I was the one who had smelt it, i would forever be the one who dealt it." (Somewhat paraphrased.)
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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That's right. A superpowered being can use a weapon if his or her powers have no direct offensive capability. Or even to supplement the powers they can use directly. See Thor. Without Mjolnir, he would just be a tougher skinned male version of Storm. |
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
My AR/Dev Blaster is Mutant origin - she uses an Assault Rifle, but her "super" powers are her ability to Fly and take more damage than the average person on the streets.
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And Captain America has no "powers", but he is Science Origin.
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Originally Posted by MLEdelen
Yea, but they now have a sufficent about of martial arts/ninja material, as far as the military stuff goes, shooting people isn't very heroic....Can we get more super power powersets now...and maybe some non-anime style costumes? There are way too many Anime costumes....give us some more detailed costumes.
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although i agree with the 'more super powers' sentiment, i believe that you are going about it the wrong way. there is no reason to be negative about what we DO have to justify asking for genre appropriate extras. the martial arts stuff has limited appeal to me, as does the anime stuff, but i don't begrudge anyone their choice of "superheroes". i would like some more modern comic book type spandex'y stuff, definitely some asymmetrical costume options, and more 'power armor' type choices, but i ain't gonna rain on anyone else's (<- that's not a word, is it?) parade.
this community is pretty friendly, and you can usually find some kind of support for a traditional addition to the game, but once you start going negative you will turn folks off.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
The rest of the OP has been picked apart and addressed very nicely by all of you, but there's one bit I want to focus on, because it really, really bugs me:
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If you know you're spelling a word wrong, take half a minute to find out how to spell it right! Come on! It's not like word processor spellcheckers are rocket surgery!|
Originally Posted by MLEdelen
[...]samari (misspelled i know)[...]
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Here, just this once, I'll make it simple for you:
Samurai. The word you're trying to use is samurai.
BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
I have to agree with the OP. We need Revolutionary War and Civil War era military costume pieces. There is already an abundance of martial arts specific costume pieces...
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
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you sir, are simply nitpicking, and we will have none of that |
Originally Posted by Bitt_Player
The rest of the OP has been picked apart and addressed very nicely by all of you, but there's one bit I want to focus on, because it really, really bugs me:
If you know you're spelling a word wrong, take half a minute to find out how to spell it right! Come on! It's not like word processor spellcheckers are rocket surgery! Here, just this once, I'll make it simple for you: Samurai. The word you're trying to use is samurai. |
also; i am now off to the online college websites to find one that offers "Rocket Surgeon" as a degree.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
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Well, a nit bit my sister once, and so did a word that someone mis-spelled when they knew they were spelling it wrong, so yeah, I react negatively to those.|
Originally Posted by Traegus
you sir, are simply nitpicking, and we will have none of that
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Originally Posted by Traegus
also; i am now off to the online college websites to find one that offers "Rocket Surgeon" as a degree.
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BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
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Pft, worth less than the electronic paper it's printed on. In 30 years, nobody's going to care about Chem-Light Battery Theory. You've gotta think long-term!
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Originally Posted by Bitt_Player
Picked up a Master's in Chem-Light Battery Theory, too.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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"Natural Control Powerset" - One that could be realistically used by a normal, non-enhanced human being, and doesn't include any extremely unrealistic technology. I would picture it being something like traps, but with control powers rather than buff/debuff powers.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'd be willing to take this suggestion more seriously if you can provide a definition for a "natural control powerset."
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Furthermore, your definition of a "natural scrapper secondary" appears to be "anything that isn't 'blatantly super'" which means you're specifically asking not just for more "natural" scrapper secondaries but rather for scrapper secondaries that cannot be easily conceptualized as "natural" by your definition. That isn't asking for more of something, but asking for less of something, and such suggestions tend to attract an extremely dim view, probably with some justification.
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That's a perfectly fine way to look at things. My point is though, if you do want to make a natural human character, then you have a lot more choices in certain powersets than in others, and if you want to make a normal human controller, you're pretty much screwed.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
You're assuming "Natural" = "Natural Human." This is an incorrect assumption. (see also "Peacebringer.")
For instance, I have a Fire/Fire blaster (and her nemesis, a fire/fire Dominator) who are basically fire elementals. Controlling and projecting fire are as natural to them as breathing is to me. Similar explanations could be made for most powersets - thus why origin (natural) is tied to the character, NOT the powerset. |
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In 20 years I'll be retired, thanks to my degree in Self-Sufficient Profit-Based String Theorism. So |
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Pft, worth less than the electronic paper it's printed on. In 30 years, nobody's going to care about Chem-Light Battery Theory. You've gotta think long-term!
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BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
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Originally Posted by Hercules
I have to agree with the OP. We need Revolutionary War and Civil War era military costume pieces. There is already an abundance of martial arts specific costume pieces...
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George Washington INV/SS tank, Obviously took hurl look at all the stories about him tossing coins across the Ptomac.
Banister Tarleton Fire/Fire Brute ?
Lord North Illusion/Emp Controller ?
Stone Wall Jackson, Stone/Sabre tank ?
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Let's look at your own choice of words.|
Originally Posted by firespray
That's a perfectly fine way to look at things. My point is though, if you do want to make a natural human character, then you have a lot more choices in certain powersets than in others, and if you want to make a normal human controller, you're pretty much screwed.
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Original post -
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| I'd really like to see this evened out more, with no more natural sets for scrappers and tankers, and a couple more in other areas, especially for controllers and blaster's secondaries. |
Now this post:
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| if you want to make a normal human controller, you're pretty much screwed. |
A "normal human controller" would be perfectly capable of using a suit, grenades, pre-programmed nanobots, hallucinogenic sprays or whatever rationale you want to come up with to be a "controller."
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You really like to nit-pick don't you.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Let's look at your own choice of words.
Original post - You make no mention of "Natural human control sets." Just "Natural sets." Again - only characters are given an origin. Powersets, for the very reason I mentioned, are not - and "Natural" is not listed as "natural human." Now this post: which, again, with that phrasing is patently false. A normal human can very well use their brain and skills to come up with means of controlling the environment. They may well be classified more as "tech" or 'science,' perhaps, but a normal human certainly could. In fact, we do *today,* with things like stun grenades, tear gas cannisters, caltrops, sonic (non lethal) weapons and the like. A "normal human controller" would be perfectly capable of using a suit, grenades, pre-programmed nanobots, hallucinogenic sprays or whatever rationale you want to come up with to be a "controller." |
Sure, it's possible to come up with a concept that would let you define pretty much any powerset as 'natural' if you wanted to. But that doesn't change the fact that if you want to play a normal human character with no superpowers, some powersets fit that archetype better than others.
You said yourself that most of the concepts of a non-superpowered human controller fit better into a tech or science origin (i.e. a normal dude using advanced technology). Wouldn't it be nice to have a control set that fit the 'just a normal guy' archetype without all that mental gymnastics?
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Because, of course, natural does not mean natural human. I know you're trying to say "Natural human," but you keep swapping these two around like they're the same thing - and they are not. |
Originally Posted by firespray
You really like to nit-pick don't you.
Sure, it's possible to come up with a concept that would let you define pretty much any powerset as 'natural' if you wanted to. |
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But that doesn't change the fact that if you want to play a normal human character with no superpowers, some powersets fit that archetype better than others. You said yourself that most of the concepts of a non-superpowered human controller fit better into a tech or science origin (i.e. a normal dude using advanced technology). Wouldn't it be nice to have a control set that fit the 'just a normal guy' archetype without all that mental gymnastics? |
How many Archery, Trick Arrow, or Assault Rifle characters are there that are listed as natural versus tech? How many of them could use their powers without the technology (the rifle or bow) in the powerset? Broadsword or dual blades would look *awful* silly without the actual sword (tool, aka technology) they use as part and parcel of the set - yet they're normally classed as "Natural."
How "advanced" is tear gas? Or flinging sand (or ashes) into someone's face? (See Char, Cinders, Smoke.)
If you think "I throw X at you" falls under "Mental gymnastics," well - the only person limiting you is you.
Tell me this - do you consider Devices or Traps "natural human" powersets or tech? Trick arrow? Archery? Assault rifle?
Would you consider a control powerset that had you throwing tear gas, smoke, stun, etc. grenades "Natural" or "Tech?" And why?
I'd be willing to take this suggestion more seriously if you can provide a definition for a "natural control powerset."
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