Everybodies Kung Fu Fighting!
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-12 11:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Really? Sprint also stacks with Instant Healing, and that has about as much to do with the discussion as what you mentioned.|
Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
that's a non response since Sprint stacks with
Super Speed Fly Super Jump So comparing NR+Sprint to Fly/SS/SJ without is disingenuous at best |
Sprint "stacks" with Fly insomuch as Fly doesn't detoggle it, but Sprint does nothing for Fly. Literally nothing.
Sprint stacks with Super Jump, but the jump height increase in Sprint is negligible. And I'm not saying that to be facetious. It really is as good as no jump height increase at all. It does not help it AT ALL.
Sprint stacks with Super Speed, but Super Speed reaches its own run speed cap just by itself in the higher levels, and even in the lower levels, Sprint's contribution is negligible. Add to that the fact that everyone seems to have Swift as a gate to Stamina, which caps your run speed with Super Speed, and you can see how Sprint helps next to nothing.
Oh, right! And Sprint also stacks with Teleport. Now ain't that somethin'?
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Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
try slotting a fly or jump *O in sprint (or swift for that matter)
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Also, while Sprint does take Jump enhancements, slotting it with them does not make you jump faster, only higher.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Sprint doesn't take Flight Speed enhancements, since it doesn't have a flight speed component. You're thinking of Swift. And maybe Quickness.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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And by such a small amount you can't actually tell.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Also, while Sprint does take Jump enhancements, slotting it with them does not make you jump faster, only higher.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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With hurdle i can tell as i can make jumps i normally couldn't. Maybe your right they tweak powers so much what was true one time i was playing may not be anymore...and it's not like i track sprint.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
And by such a small amount you can't actually tell.
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that said NJ (i just tested this last night) detoggles CJ (and presumable other travel/combat powers) so it's akin to a weaker cj...or dare i say it Acrobatics from CO
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This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Hurdle, yes. Hurdle has a very substantial bonus to jump height but, above all, lateral jump speed. Sprint has a token jump height buff that LITERALLY doesn't matter. It so insignificant that all it does is let you slot jump enhancements in it (I think). It does give you extra height. All of an inch or so.|
Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
With hurdle i can tell as i can make jumps i normally couldn't. Maybe your right they tweak powers so much what was true one time i was playing may not be anymore...and it's not like i track sprint.
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| that said NJ (i just tested this last night) detoggles CJ (and presumable other travel/combat powers) so it's akin to a weaker cj...or dare i say it Acrobatics from CO |
Tell you what, and this is completely serious: Why not unlock our travel powers for free, as a special travel slot? If not at level 1, then say at level 6. Since regular travel powers won't take a power pick (or two) and will still be slottable, then I'll have zero problems with the Ninja Run as it stands.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Weaker CJ? Um...|
Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
that said NJ (i just tested this last night) detoggles CJ (and presumable other travel/combat powers) so it's akin to a weaker cj...or dare i say it Acrobatics from CO
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Combat Jumping: Improves jump height and air control
Ninja Run: Improves run speed, jump height, jump speed, and air control
And the jump height/air control from NR is better than that of CJ. So... the only way NR is worse than CJ is its endurance cost, but CJ is meant to be an in-combat power, while NR is meant to be an out-of-combat power, so that isn't really an issue.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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To further the apples to oranges comparison, let's not forget that CJ provides immobilization resistance and a very modest defense buff. So, yeah, what Fleeting Whisper seems to be getting at: They are two different powers.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Weaker CJ? Um...
Combat Jumping: Improves jump height and air control Ninja Run: Improves run speed, jump height, jump speed, and air control And the jump height/air control from NR is better than that of CJ. So... the only way NR is worse than CJ is its endurance cost, but CJ is meant to be an in-combat power, while NR is meant to be an out-of-combat power, so that isn't really an issue. |
On a side note: I'm really hoping that if we get travel power customization that CJ will receive several different animation suites to select from to give the power some aesthetic flair beyond the odd little misty ringed particle effect it has now.
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That's not true! Sprint can mean the difference between jumping from a lower floor to the ledge up in some office maps. It's just baaaaaaaaaaaarely enough!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Sprint has a token jump height buff that LITERALLY doesn't matter.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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^This * 1000|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
That said, I'm tempted to get it for my naturals just because it's closer than any other option. I was hoping to get more costume pieces to explain some of the travel powers for naturals (jet/jump packs, rocket skates, whatever) beyond the rocket & (non-animated) piston boots. Stuff where you can still have a slotted Fly and be seen wearing a jet pack rather than puttering about in the purchased one. But I guess we're not there yet.
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I was also hoping very strongly for more costume items to go with powers, so "non-supers" could rationalize the super powers more easily. Especially jet packs as costume items.
Maybe this just means we'll get that sort of thing free. Someday.
I'm disappointed in that aspect, but very entertained by the ninja run. Overall, I don't feel I wasted my money.
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b-cuz it stacks w/ Ninja Run!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Why even use Sprint at all now?
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Has anyone else noticed that /em bringit done in Granite Armor looks like it ends with giving the finger?
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That's an interesting perspective. Suppose Krypton had a yellow sun instead of a red one, and as a result all Kryptonians had superpowers. Superman would still be powered by an external source: our sun. But he would be no different than any other Kryptonian back home. Would he still be science origin because he would need an "external source" for his powers?|
To me, it's not natural BECAUSE there's an outside source involved. Any Kryptonian can gain superpowers, but not without a yellow sun. In the same way that any human can be a Troll, but not without Superadine. There's an outside source which is causing the powers, and that outside source is either going to be magic, science, or technology. Inside sources are mutation and natural. The way I rationalize them, anyway. Not saying that's correct or even canon; that's just how I consider them when I make new characters. |
Suppose human beings photosynthesized light. Would they be disqualified from being "natural" simply because they were powered by an external source of energy? Conversely, are you saying you would automatically disqualify something from being "science origin" if it didn't involve an external effect?
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Being a mutant made him an antimatter generator. But being a technical wizard made him a superhero. In this case, Matt decided that the origin of "Positron's" abilities was technology. The origin of Raymond Keyes' powers was mutation, but those are not the core abilities of the superhero known as Positron. That's a reasonable interpretation given the limitations of the origin system.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Positron's origin, while narratively interesting, is a MESS when it comes to the game's origins systems. By his explanation (in the Origins of Power arc), he has the ability to create minute amounts of anti-matter, which do nothing more than create big explosions. So he's a mutant, purely technically speaking, making him Mutation. But because he's also a scientist and built his suit to harness and project the energy he can create, he can be said to be Technology. It's a fine line to tread, and Matt Miller has chosen to make him Technology. Given that origins don't make a lot of difference and are largely up to the player (and given that he's lead developer) his decision is very much final.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Not sure where you're getting Positron being a Mutant from. From the official website, Positron was a normal human being who developed a super-suit that used anti-matter as its power source. It wasn't until later that he suffered a lab accident(I'm pretty sure "lab accident" falls under Science, not Mutant) that gave him the ability to generate his own anti-matter from his body.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Being a mutant made him an antimatter generator. But being a technical wizard made him a superhero. In this case, Matt decided that the origin of "Positron's" abilities was technology. The origin of Raymond Keyes' powers was mutation, but those are not the core abilities of the superhero known as Positron. That's a reasonable interpretation given the limitations of the origin system.
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I'm really enjoying this booster pack. I like to use Ninja Running+Sprint(With Enhancements) and Use the GvE Jump Pack for extra height, for city travel. This is really handy, can free up two powers, a travel power and it's prerequisite.
The only real cost to get it basically the same speed as SS is Enhancement Slots. Maybe add Swift and or Hurdle if you really want even more added height and speed.
Thank you devs.
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I'm responding to Sam's interpretation that Positron's antimatter generating abilities are the result of a mutation. My own personal opinion is that its the result of a scientific accident, and thus Keyes' ability to generate antimatter is itself a science-origin ability. But the ability to control it and harness it to become a superhero is a technological ability. The point was that the interpretation of how he gets the ability to generate antimatter doesn't have to be the same as the interpretation of what his core superheroic abilities are.|
Originally Posted by Kyasubaru
Not sure where you're getting Positron being a Mutant from. From the official website, Positron was a normal human being who developed a super-suit that used anti-matter as its power source. It wasn't until later that he suffered a lab accident(I'm pretty sure "lab accident" falls under Science, not Mutant) that gave him the ability to generate his own anti-matter from his body.
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In the Origins of Power arc Positron characterizes his abilities as an innate ability (generating antimatter) coupled with technology, and suggests that in general technology-origin superheroes aren't just normal guys packing machinery, but something deeper involving an innate ability (even if that is, perhaps, the superhuman ability to use technology) meshed with technology in some non-trivial way.
This perspective is a necessary element of the Origins of Power theory that all superhuman ability has a fundamental aspect to it (a canon theory I'm personally not fully comfortable with myself).
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No one knows for certain...
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
The REAL question is what made Positron bald?
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Unfortunately you are speculating far too much, claiming possibilities that have no basis in canon, whereas most of us are going on what we know to be true in canon: Kryptonians gain incredible powers in the light of a yellow sun. Without anything else added to that, it's an easy guess that this is natural for them. In fact, in most versions, Jor-El was fully aware what the rays of our sun would do to his son before sending him to Earth. Clearly this is evidence that Kryptonians have been aware of what a yellow sun environment would do to them.
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Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi
You don't have the power that Deduce it that any more than it was genetic modification from thousands of years ago in reaction to som event in the past. a number of options are possible because it is an completly UNKNOWN Process.
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Comfortable or not...it actually makes some sense though. Most of the stuff that happens in comics in terms of hero abilities is literally impossible. Getting powers from accidents that would normally kill or maim is so far out of the realm of possibility that it isn't even funny.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
This perspective is a necessary element of the Origins of Power theory that all superhuman ability has a fundamental aspect to it (a canon theory I'm personally not fully comfortable with myself).
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Like being hit by lightning and having that give you the power to control and project electricity. How would you even be able to do that, even if your body could be unaffected by carrying that kind of electrical charge? Your entire nervous system would have to be reconstructed to be able to let you shoot lightning bolts and create barriers of electricity. Or use it to fly etc.
The canon basically proposes that none of that stuff WAS possible before Statesman and Recluse got their hands on the Well.
So for me it's kind of nice that they explain why stuff that shouldn't happen is now so common place that we can have a literal city of heroes.
Actually between the well opening in the ancient era (since Imperious is the Incarnate of Zeus for that time period) and the second opening with Marcus Cole and Stephan Richter there is a few super-powered people to crop up.
Giovanna Scaldi and the monk Brother Abelard Vernoux were both mutants before the 'official' explanation of mutants says there were any (Sister Psyche claims that there were no super powered mutants prior to the invention of the Atom bomb...mind you she also claims to be a special class of 'psychic mutant' all her own so the words of the vain are not to be taken seriously).
Nemesis, the Prussian Prince of Automatons is 180 yeards old, predating the rediscovery of the Well of the Furies by a large amount of time.
The opening the of the well just allowed more of these things to result in super powers whereas before they were incredibly rare. Only two or three people out of each generation seemed to have super powers that weren't linked to the dark arts but once the well opened all these people started cropping up with powers from various different origins.
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Unless she's actually right. Giovanna Scaldi is psionic, and the profile of the Carnival of Shadows lists Abelard Vernoux as "...[has] the ability to read emotions and absorb the qualities of people, animals, and even objects around him." Which sounds much like he could be psionic as well. |
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Giovanna Scaldi and the monk Brother Abelard Vernoux were both mutants before the 'official' explanation of mutants says there were any (Sister Psyche claims that there were no super powered mutants prior to the invention of the Atom bomb...mind you she also claims to be a special class of 'psychic mutant' all her own so the words of the vain are not to be taken seriously)
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There's nothing about Nemesis which specifically points to him being a mutant other than his advanced age, which could be the result of good genes coupled with technology or science, or even magic.
I'll admit that it seems a bit strange that the Origin of Power arc just drops that "psionic" origin from out of left field, particularly since most of the game seems to hint that if there's a 6th origin, it's probably the Incarnates (plus references to the Avilans in the Hollows), but I don't think there's necessarily anything that precludes it. If she's right, then there's the possibility that mutants didn't actually appear such as they are until the bomb.
The one hole poked into this theory, of course, is Lady Gray. She's supposed to be older than Statesman and from all I can tell, is supposed to be a mutant. So either the Psionic AT is much more expansive than just mental powers, or she isn't a mutant origin, or Sister Psyche (and I, by extension) is blowing hot air.
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I wasn't saying that Nemesis was a mutant...merely that his existence predates the second opening of the well of furies which means that it's not just the well which allows for superpowers to become available.
What I think is that the well merely allowed superpowers to go from being once or twice in every generation to lots of people in every generation.
Though it seems the only happens while the incarnates are still alive, since once they die off the well seems to lose it's influence on the world at large and once more returns to Superpowers being a rare oddity.
Every time the well if opened there is an 'age of heroes' such as the time when the Greek myths and legends about Hercules and such, in that universe the opening of the Well allowed them to be real and there's not really been a time since then where so many heroic figures and dastardly villains have existed.
It died down after that age with the odd one or two people having super powers then probably flared up again during the age when the Vikings roamed the world bestowing on their people mighty heroes. This cycle of being found and opened and being closed could have continued throughout history, giving each age their myths and legends of heroes and villains.
It seems the Well and Pandora's box are always found when an 'Age of Heroes' is needed.
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'cuz Dark Watcher sucks at using Howling Twilight right.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
The REAL question is what made Positron bald?
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM