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You be wanting a plant/rad matey.|
Originally Posted by random_person
hey all ive come back to hero side the last few weeks and wanted to ask what a good non fire/kin build would be. im gonna use the toon to get mine and my gfs toons to lvl 22 usually and just farm. i hear earth/storm is a good one, trying to stay away from ill/ though, any recommendations?
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Eh, I decided to make this a bit useful so...
If you plan to farm you need AoE damage and the best control sets for that are fire and plant. Fire obviously relies on hotfeet and fire cages with imps tossing in some nice additional damage. Plant fairs pretty well in terms of AoE damage too. It's AoE immobilize does more damage than any other control sets and you have seeds of confusion to make the enemies whack one another. This combined with carrion creepers will give you some very decent damage.
As for secondaries while /kin may be the standard for farmers, /rad will contribute significantly to your safety and speed in eliminating the enemy. With enervating field and the Achille's proc in radiation infection you'll pump out some very nice -resist to increase your damage. You'll also have lingering radiation and emp pulse to contribute -regen to av and gm fights or anything else that isn't falling over quickly. Of course, it's very endurance heavy and anything/rad seems to make for a tight build. However, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to build for perma-am and perma-hasten with plant as a primary.
Personally, I find plant/rad to be a very versatile pairing. You can solo easily. You can farm easily. You can contribute on teams easily.
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Earth/Storm is a great AoE controller, but has diddly damage until the upper levels (Rocky at 32, Tornado at 35, Lightning Storm at 38). Even then, the damage is mediocre -- you can solo, but not fast. The pet Recharge Nerf hit Storm particularly hard, as fast Recharge in Lightning Storm allowed it to put out huge amounts of damage. Not so much anymore. I love Earth Control, but its strength is AoE control for teams and not farming.|
Originally Posted by random_person
hey all ive come back to hero side the last few weeks and wanted to ask what a good non fire/kin build would be. im gonna use the toon to get mine and my gfs toons to lvl 22 usually and just farm. i hear earth/storm is a good one, trying to stay away from ill/ though, any recommendations?
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Fire is the best damage among controllers, but you have to be melee. Fire/Kin is faster, Fire/Rad is safer. With Rad, you also get many of your best powers early in the set -- AM, RI and EF. But Fire also matures late, in that the Endurance demands of Hot Feet plus the additional help from the secondary needed means that a Fire/Kin isn't really all that until about level 40, and a Fire/Rad needs fully slotted Hot Feet, Choking Cloud and Fire Imps, so it takes about level 36 or so.
Plant is the one controller that gets the best AoE control/damage early in the set. The combo of Seeds of Confusion+Roots is great. Roots does twice the damage of other AoE Immob powers, so over time, you can take down groups as fast as individuals. In later levels, Carrion Creepers and the pet add more AoE damage. It is weak on single target damage, though, but that's not a problem on any kind of team with a damage dealer.
Combine Plant with Rad and you have a pretty good AoE controller with some AoE damage. Plant/Kin will do more damage in the long run, but it will mature later. (I have a Plant/Rad at 50, working on a Plant/Kin with a team, which is 28 at the moment.) Plant/Storm is also a great combo, with the debuff from Freezing Rain coming at 16. Plant has the advantage, also, of having three optional powers (Entangle, Spores and Spirit Tree), allowing the build to be a bit "looser" than other controller primaries. (I would take Entangle slotted for damgae if I expect to solo a lot. Otherwise, Spirit Tree is nice to have as a Regen boost at times for teams, but not necessary).
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Earth/Kin/Stone...
Great Control + Very Good Damage = Farming +2x8 solo without any problems. I Farm all my toons from 1-22 with my earth/kin. I have retired my fire/kin after 13 issues. I will warn you though (unlike most people who rave about particular builds) - my build is expensive!! 5 Purple Sets + 3 LOTG sets (with uniques), resistance/defense uniques, Miracle and Numina Uniques....
Not sure what sever you play on, but if you wanna see an Earth/Kin in action on Freedom - look me up - Bulldozer Betty.
I will not comment on plant as I have never had any desire to play a plant troller.
I don't mean to be a contrarian or snarky but if you're farming and have time to actually use your rad toggles you are farming too slow....a kin will have already taken the spawn down and moved on. I love love love me some rad, but laying down toggles and actually using them is kind of counter to farming in my opinion....unless maybe you are herding multiple spawns. I'm not saying a rad can't farm, just that their toggles won't be of that much use and the time and thought it takes to lay them on a spawn, attack and avoid killing your toggle (since you want them to help move your farm along) is a bit of a hinderence.
Want a fun farmer? fire/storm/stone. Plant/storm would make a nice alternative.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Plant/Kin
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I agree if you're talking about RI but EF takes 1 second to activate. I mean you can't really recommend Storm with its 2s animation on FR and diss Rad for having a 1s animation on EF. Even using RI + EF + LR takes only 6 seconds - not that I would advice actually doing that, but just saying ; no fire/kin kills a spawn in 6 seconds, unless you're farming -1/x5 or something, which would be terrible for XP.| I don't mean to be a contrarian or snarky but if you're farming and have time to actually use your rad toggles you are farming too slow... |
That being said, I wouldn't go with either of these secondaries, and stick with Kin, preferably pairing it with Plant.
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No, its not animation time I'm arguing, its the fact they are toggles. FR is a fire and forget, you get the benefits no matter who's killed and when in a spawn. With farming I feel efficiency is key and to me toggles as opposed to FaF(click) powers like FR, FS, etc are less helpful.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I agree if you're talking about RI but EF takes 1 second to activate. I mean you can't really recommend Storm with its 2s animation on FR and diss Rad for having a 1s animation on EF. Even using RI + EF + LR takes only 6 seconds - not that I would advice actually doing that, but just saying ; no fire/kin kills a spawn in 6 seconds, unless you're farming -1/x5 or something, which would be terrible for XP.
That being said, I wouldn't go with either of these secondaries, and stick with Kin, preferably pairing it with Plant. |
Edited for clarity
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
I like the sight of a stormy farming but I think kinetics win any day: +End +Heal +Rech +Dmg. I'd be happy if I could farm with Fire/Storm but I just can't see my blue bar lasting long. Fire/Cold on the other hand...
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
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As a controller you really need Kinetics for the dmg... In saying that all you need is a build on any toon that can survive an 8man spawn and you could call it a farmer, because you can do the same map over and over again... |
Originally Posted by random_person
hey all ive come back to hero side the last few weeks and wanted to ask what a good non fire/kin build would be. im gonna use the toon to get mine and my gfs toons to lvl 22 usually and just farm. i hear earth/storm is a good one, trying to stay away from ill/ though, any recommendations?
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However Fire/Kin is usually picked because farming is not about surviving a map over and over, it's about efficiency.
Speed / Reward Ratio basically...
So as many trollers can "farm" only a few really have what it takes to be efficient at it.
Main things that you require...
Aoe Immobilise
Aoe Hold / Stun
Aoe Damage
Self Heal
Self Endurance buff
Otherwise you will be spending time chasing stragglers that flee, taking dmg and mez, dying, or god forbid resting because your pooped.... All this I refer to as "downtime".
Box tickers are,
Fire / Kin
Plant / Kin
Maybe Grav / kin ??? ( Just dont take D-shift >.< )
Other than these trollers I would suggest,
Fire / Shield Scrapper
Archery or Fire / Mental Blaster (soft capped btw)
Spines / Regen or Fire Scrapper
Willpower / SuperStrength Tanks
Shield Def / SuperStrength Tanks
But tbh, nothing touches a well designed
Fire / Kin.
Hope this helps. x
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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Originally Posted by False_Fiction_EU
I like the sight of a stormy farming but I think kinetics win any day: +End +Heal +Rech +Dmg. I'd be happy if I could farm with Fire/Storm but I just can't see my blue bar lasting long. Fire/Cold on the other hand...
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It's actually not that bad but yeah you have to be heavily invested in +recovery, +end and +recharge.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Ignoring for a second those that think that if it ain't first, it ain't worth playing........this list can be very flexible depending on how aggressive you are willing to be with inspirations. |
Originally Posted by Donna_
Main things that you require... Aoe Immobilise Aoe Hold / Stun Aoe Damage Self Heal Self Endurance buff |
Inspirations can compensate for damage, healing, or endurance depending on what you need for your powersets. Inspirations drop almost a half rack on average if you're soloing a map set for 8 man spawns. You can keep a steady +200% damage bonus due to inspirations with just a few simple macros to convert everything to damage, provided you're moving at a decent enough pace to keep the inspirations rolling. The same can obviously be done with healing/endurance if those are what you need. The only time that idea gets short changed is when you have to start filling many gaps that way, but for troller combinations that is rarely the case.
Speaking of farming builds, which do you guys think would be faster at a typical BM or Council map:
Plant/Kin Controller
Elec/Shield Scrapper
I have an Elec/Shield, but I've always been curious if the plant/kin would be faster.
Thanks!
Actually I forgot to mention Elec Melee, good set tbh but you will find that scrappers will fair better and faster than a Fire Kin on lower level mobs.. prob 50 - 51's however a FireKin has more of a sustained dmg output, it doesn't spike as much as the scrapper to begin with but it will floor 53's-54's in less time.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
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This. Seeds for constant control, Fulcrum Shift, spam roots and Fireball/Psi Tornado/Fissure = job done.
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Originally Posted by TRTerror
Plant/Kin
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@Fail (Used to be @Tux) and @Tuxedo Infinitus Defiant/Freedom/Champion
Favourite Toons: Prosper [Ill/Rad] Controller :: Infinitus [Fire/Elec] Blaster :: Pocket Dynamo [Fire/Shield] Scr :: Fast [Cold/Sonic] Def ::
Inspire [Plant/Storm] Controller :: Quality - SS/Fire Brute :: Double Down [DP/Kin] Corr :: Pwnz [Fire/Cold] Corr :: Fail [Fire/Son] Corr
I've been playing a plant/storm, plant/kin duo farming them since about lv8. They are 46 now and have amassed 700M odd. The kin plays well by herself (using her to pl other toons) but haven't tried the storm by herself. I don't have a fire/kin to compare with so can't talk about the relative kill speeds of plant vs fire but i suspect plant is the safer and easier to level. Seeds of confusion takes so much of the legwork and worry out of every fight it's almost laughable.
Also if it's drop farming you're interested in it doesn't matter to what extent the mobs kill themselves just so long as they go down.
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I have a Fire/Kin and a Elec/Shield scrapper. The scrapper is faster for farming hands down and so much easier to play. BU+Lightning Rod+Shield Charge=completely dead +2/8 mob. On my non-purpled but heavily IO'ed/Lotg'ed build, that trio is up every 30 secs if not sooner. So it goes enter mob, draw aggro and gather them around you, take the alpha and beta strikes easily, BU+LR+SC, move into next mob, ThunderStrike, Chain Induction, BU+LR+SC, rinse, repeat....accept compliments from team, console fire/kin because he doesn't have time to get off fulcrum shift and you don't need it.... you get the idea.
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Originally Posted by snake1313
Speaking of farming builds, which do you guys think would be faster at a typical BM or Council map:
Plant/Kin Controller Elec/Shield Scrapper I have an Elec/Shield, but I've always been curious if the plant/kin would be faster. Thanks! |
I agree and prefer to farm with a Scrapper to a Fire/Kin. But there is no way you're killing a whole +2/8 mob with SD + LR, unless you're not killing the bosses that is.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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You can try taking your Elec/Shield into Unai Kemen's Banished Pantheon mission. They are vulnerable to energy damage.
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Originally Posted by snake1313
Speaking of farming builds, which do you guys think would be faster at a typical BM or Council map:
Plant/Kin Controller Elec/Shield Scrapper I have an Elec/Shield, but I've always been curious if the plant/kin would be faster. Thanks! |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Why do people insist on riding a bike to the pot of gold when they can simply jump into a car?|
Originally Posted by random_person
hey all ive come back to hero side the last few weeks and wanted to ask what a good non fire/kin build would be. im gonna use the toon to get mine and my gfs toons to lvl 22 usually and just farm. i hear earth/storm is a good one, trying to stay away from ill/ though, any recommendations?
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I suppose just to show it can be done.
I can certainly walk 25 miles to a shopping center to buy dozens of christmas gifts then walk back home as opposed to driving their in my SUV...doesn't mean I should just to prove the point it can be done.
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Maybe because some people like to do things for fun and aren't quite as "git-er-done" oriented as you appear to be. Some folks don't like the Fire control set. Some people don't like Kinetics. A lot of people don't want to be another Fire/Kin with all the baggage that seems to imply. Your analogy doesn't quite fit when the entire purpose of the game is to play the game.
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Originally Posted by milehigh77
Why do people insist on riding a bike to the pot of gold when they can simply jump into a car?
I suppose just to show it can be done. I can certainly walk 25 miles to a shopping center to buy dozens of christmas gifts then walk back home as opposed to driving their in my SUV...doesn't mean I should just to prove the point it can be done. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
you are absolutely correct.
Honestly I have been thinkin about maybe runnin a earth/sonic/psi, I mean you get the -res -def and you got the consistent damage of psi.
So my vote is stone/sonic/psi.
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If you're committed to Earth/Storm, you certainly haven't made a bad choice. Not many situations that you can't lock down with that beast. |
Originally Posted by random_person
hey all ive come back to hero side the last few weeks and wanted to ask what a good non fire/kin build would be. im gonna use the toon to get mine and my gfs toons to lvl 22 usually and just farm. i hear earth/storm is a good one, trying to stay away from ill/ though, any recommendations?
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If you're still open to suggestions, I'd like to put in a good word for Fire/FF. It's not as fast as your typical Fire/Kin but its combination of firepower & durability opens up options for your duo, i.e. your gf doesn't necessarily have to roll a support-bot in order for the team to be successful in what you've described you'd like to do.
I'm not guaranteeing a leisurely stroll through +3 Knives maps or the ability to pimpslap AVs or anything like that, but you'd be surprised at how effective Fire/FF is in farm situations, especially when there's another body there doing actual damage with you, instead of tending to your boo-boos.
If you're ever on Victory, hop over to the wall in Cimerora & you'll likely find my Fire/FF clearing the wall non-stop. Non-stop meaning, if I feel like doing it, I can hop from group to group to group as fast as they can spawn, without ever re-casting my imps, without ever taking a knee, for as long as I can stomach the repetition. Granted, that character is pimped out, but he got that way on his own steam by basically doing the same thing on farmable maps.
hey all ive come back to hero side the last few weeks and wanted to ask what a good non fire/kin build would be. im gonna use the toon to get mine and my gfs toons to lvl 22 usually and just farm. i hear earth/storm is a good one, trying to stay away from ill/ though, any recommendations?
RED CAP DAGGERS: if you want them red side on infinity, send a pm i have the mission to get them for dual blades.