NCSoft and Massively

I'm not sure how eiscounting what amounts to a bunch of unsupported outsider speculation makes me a Pollyanna....but I'd sure look cute in a blond pigtailed wig!

I had this argument with someone else a while ago, so I'll just summarize-

I don't care if the game grows or how much money NC pumps into it, I just want to doors to stay open so I can keep playing. I was content with the updates we were getting before the recent big push- a return to those days wouldn't bother me.

I'm confident the game is healthy enough to keep chugging along basically indefinitely, whatever reception awaits GR.

Matter of opinion (though I do understand what you are getting at). The AE, Powerset Proliferation, and Power Spectrum are among my favorite issues to date. They are fantastic and give those interested in developing there characters' stories with more than just leveling numbers a lot to work with.

They do count for a lot of us. Opinions of course may and will vary.

However, did you ever stop to think that these great QoL advancements they've been giving us over the past few issues may well be the offshoots of the Going Rogue work they've been doing? It sounds like they are working very hard to deliver exactly what you are asking for on a much larger scale than standard Issues. And they are devoting the time and resources to get it right, rather than rushing content out the door.

Remember, the team had been reduced to about 15 members (if I recall) by the time Cryptic sold the rights. Since then they have ramped up to more than triple the staff. That does not result in a sudden tripling of output; the new staff still needed to be brought up to speed with the system and so forth. Now they are working on what sounds like not only massive new content, but a significant tech improvements as well.

The new toys they've given me with AE, proliferation, and Spectrum will tide me over for a bit while I wait for GR.

Indeed. Some people like to believe writing is easy or that they could do it better than those people getting paid to do it, but it really was that easy, everything would be Nobel, Academy, Emmy, and Pulitzer Prize worthy.

Obvious answer is that it isn't. Even the greatest authors have more iffy things that they have published. Creative work is bloody hard, and having it be recognized is just as hard, if not more so.

Anyway, I just see this as more negativity from Massively. Every article I have seen on MMOs from them consistently puts CoX in a bad light, and suggests that it is soon to be supplanted by the other superhero MMOs (they had an article a month or so back about the top MMOs in five years, and the top superhero MMO was obviously going to be either CO or DCU). They wanted a sequel from CoX awhile back, too, and even though GR will supply a lot of that (they wanted a new graphical look with it), now they think GR will make it or break it for a whole software division that does not just include CoX.

Really, game media hasn't been all that nice to CoX, for some reason. Everyone wants to talk about the new games coming out, and how WoW is all that and a bag of chips.

As for the rest, NCsoft obviously has made decisions to close games, but that doesn't really make me nervous about CoX. Those games weren't doing well after their investment, and they had to let them go. If people are holding them accountable for not holding on to a game that wasn't profitable, I fail to see how that is NCSoft's problem.

As it is, NCSoft has owned CoX alone for awhile now, and we're still here. They've invested in it big time and have an expansion coming. People would be silly to think that CoX won't be around for a long time after Going Rogue, even if it doesn't do super well (which I'm not sure how that will happen). The future has a lot of possibility, and this game has at least a few more years future, if not more.

Dooooooom! doesn't cover this article, or some of the posting here.

Sometimes I think it's because CoH/V isn't just another stock MMO. They've actually done things a little differently -- which makes it better than many in my book. They bucked some established trends and are thus labeled a "lesser" MMO for it.

Luckily, I've never worried about self-proclaimed "experts". I know what I enjoy and am glad the Paragon Studios team is continuing to keep this game vibrant and viable.

People who left because they ran out of things to do in the game won't be back anytime soon. If they do put more money down it will be for a month or two and then they will run out of things they enjoy again and go elsewhere. One expansion won't feel the void.

I think the fact the only another NCsoft game seems to be a real sub sapper indicates CoH developers are on the right track. I mean the other new game new exactly what the audience wanted and what was on the market already and still fell short.

As someone who's made a habit of turning out mediocre writing, I have to agree with this completely. Anyone who believes writing ANYTHING, much less a compelling interactive game arc, is either sorely misguided, has never tried to create anything of his own, or has a suspiciously one-sided view of his own work's merit vs the merit of other people's work. Writing is not a quick, easy, effortless endeavour, and I'm not going to listen to anyone who claims otherwise.

Ask the writers. Or, hell, ask the many Architect arc authors. A good, decent arc that breaks monotony, presents you with something interesting and handles things in an unexpected way is not the work of 15 minutes of writing text. From experience, a good, decent 5-mission arc is the work of AT LEAST a weekend, full-day work days, or a week in-between other things, and it's by FAR not an easy thing. I've spoken against the Architect a lot, but the biggest reason I no longer make arcs for it isn't player response or system viability. It's because it takes sheer, honest-to-God effort that I'm not just not prepared to put in any more.

And this thread has been an exercise of disconnect for me. I keep seeing people pan... Just about everything in the game as "this is garbage, that is garbage" and so on and so forth, yet when I think back, I can remember being ecstatic about every single one of those issues. And I've always been excited about the game in general, as well. I've never felt that "CoH has to introduce this or it's going to DIE DIE DIE MUAHAHAHAHA!" If people were phrasing this as "If they don't do something soon, I am going to leave." then I would have neither problem not quandary. But apparently the forum is chock full of people who are not many times smarter than me, but also clairvoyant, because they are able to project their own reaction over the entire game's inevitable future, no matter what AN ACTUAL DEVELOPER might say about it. Specifically since he's the one who's held to be always truthful (since he is).

In fact, I don't know why I even bother. This is like pre-Issue doom without the Issue.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I loved stupid blog they linked to.

CO is out, CoH is DOOOOOOOMED!
Aion is out, CoH is DOOOOOOOMED!
ST MMO is coming out, CoH is DOOOOOOOMED!
[INSERT HERE] is coming out, CoH is DOOOOOOOMED!

This has been trumped up again and again (and again and again!) and still hasn't happened.

Will CoH take a hit from it? Sure! It's another product competing for people's entertainment dollar.

How bad will it be? Nobody knows. Because it's not simply a matter of "new, shiny, better, SQUIRREL!"

It also ignores the two key issues.

1: Some people wind up coming back.
2: Some people wind up playing BOTH.

The whole marketing equation for MMOs (of which CoH is a prime example) is not an immutable binary equation (stay forever/leave forever).

The blog, and Massively failing to understand this is what causes their "point" to face-plant at something above terminal velocity.

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If you listen to the conference calls with investors that are released in conjunction with the quarterly financials, it is pretty clear why they pulled those numbers. The chief concern of investors at that time was whether Aion, then in Korean launch, was going to leach subscribers from the two Lineage games - in other words, investors were concerned that the company would have fewer net additional subscribers than forecast. As you said, it had nothing whatsoever to do with CoX.

I personally thought it was a disservice to investors at the time. However, it does put them more in line with the industry norm. Very few companies give out real numbers.

The best someone could manage at this point is to average out dollars spent per subscriber during the period they did release numbers, and come up with a subscriber equivalent based on today's revenue stream. It's a bit more complicated than that since you'd have to account for a slightly different revenue model (more costume packs now) and you would have to adjust for a wildly fluctuating S. Korean won rate (and basically ignore the fact that Euros and pounds contribute as well as US dollars, since the sales aren't broken down within those regions).

Still, this quarter's results aren't encouraging, even considering that the won was getting stronger. Sales are, unfortunately, down. This in the first (partial) quarter with direct superhero competition. Down, but not disastrously down.

I'm sorry, that's bull. They've introduced several major systems into the game. Sure, there isn't TONS of content falling from the sky because of it. But to characterize it as "garbage" is completely uncalled for.


Simply because you can create a mission in AE doesn't mean that hooking them to real contacts elsewhere in the game is correspondingly easy.

You have to have or create a contact.

You have to place a previously unplaced contact.

You have to add the mission/arc to their missions list.

You have to set it up so that it properly pulls a door somewhere in the zone.

Plus a bunch of other stuff I probably don't know about or am just too lazy right now to logic-chain my way through.

Also, ask some of the authors who spend days/weeks getting their missions tweaked just SO, how easy it is to turn out "good" content at a rapid pace.

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You need to read these forums more often.

Actually, I believe this is a two-layer trap.

Ryu claims that content is easy to make because of AE. I mean, all you do is slap some enemies into a mission, add some text, and it's content right?

He also claims that 99% of AE missions are garbage.

So what's to stop dev content from being garbage if it's just created with AE stuff? Sure they have great writers, but there are plenty of great writers amongst our player base. Even if it comes out with a compelling story, it's still just the same defeat and glowie missions with the same gangs.

The only way for the devs to create new content that's fun and interesting is to come up with new ideas and, as a dev (Positron?) actually put it, do things we can't do yet. That's what happened with the new TFs. They implemented new ideas, new powers, and new enemies.

So on one hand, Ryu claims it should be a cinch to just throw some stuff together and release it as dev content. On the other hand, if they did that, Ryu would be here complaining that the new dev content is crap. To make new stuff, the devs need time. Time Ryu doesn't want to give them, because this stuff should be "easy." They can't win, no matter what route they take.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

The two arguments coming so close in the same thread have forced me to conclude he's not very bright.
He knows he doesn't like things done with one method but somehow thinks that same method should produce rapid fire silver with some gold on occasion.

Actually... okay, short form answer. Yes, they have professional writers (note the single 't' in the word, please) on staff. Their job is to plumb the depths of the story bible (or else the new internal Wiki that Hero 1 mentioned at the 'con), and come up with new content. Great. Easy. No problem.

And I'm sure they could churn it out quite fast... if they continued to use the same maps and models as they have before.

Which then has people grousing that really it's no different than any other content from before.

Which means a) new models, b) new maps, c) new powers, or d) some combination of a, b, and c.

Which means now BAB and SexyJay have to get in on it (for new models), Ken Morse and the art team and whoever handles world/map design (for new maps), Castle (for new powers, never mind BAB AGAIN if there are new animations involved).

Then there's testing it, QAing it, etc etc etc.

And let's say they try and do something new, so it's NOT just a rescue/click/defeat all? Even more testing, QAing, and so on.

All because one of the professional writers came up with new content.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)

No. The game won't FAIL. It may not pull in tons of new customers, but it won't necessarily fail because of that.

COULD it fail because of an atrociously bad GR flop? Sure!
COULD it fail because of an asteroid come hurtling down and flatten Paragon Studios with everyone in-house and working? Sure!

Is like LIKELY? Not at this point. GR, from the little we've seen of it thus far, is looking to be a decent addition to the game. Sure, it's not "We rewrote the graphics package using the Unreal Engine", but so what?

Content, as Ryu defines it, is new missions and arcs. That's great. It's something that people tear through in a couple weeks. Then it's "old" and people begin beeyotching about it again. Revamping content is simply exacerbating the problem.

Sure it makes sense! In a shallow, self-centered way that absolutely refuses to take into account anything besides one's own view of "perfection" in the game.

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So damned if they do, damned if they don't. Plus Paragon is left holding the baggage of trying to prove a negative if there really is no such benchmark, or one hasn't been expressed to them.

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I think your sarcasm detector might be broke....

--Rad

I know what will kill CoH:

1. Go back in time to about half a year after CoH is first released so that the new shininess has worn off.

2. Put a MMORPG on the market with a more popular genre from a more well known company with a proven IP.

3. Grow that other MMORPG into a monster that has over 10 million subscribers.

Now *that* will surely kill CoH!

would that that actually existed, on forums, particularly those devoted to specific topics like video games, politics, book series and the like, there are often a portion of posterswho range from "too emotionally attached to view things reasonably" to "bat-nuts insane social pariah " . and given the lack of ability to attach nuance or tone into posts, occasionally a poster will sound nuts and be kidding, and other times, they are actually nuts. so an actual sarcasm detector would be quite a benefit on forums

Million dollar idea Maybe even billion.

--Rad

As someone who owns and runs a company dealing, day in and day out, with professional artists and writers, I can quite confidently tell you that you don't have the slightest notion about the subject you're raving on.

And I will leave it there.

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Precisely. It's a case of someone with sand in their....craw.

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No. Just a simple case of plaintext aphasia.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.