I can hear the howls now
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
You know I've had nothing but awesome experiences in Cim and RWZ with mixed teams (not too mention the V-Day pocket D missions). Since Villains are so darned self-sufficient and in many cases self-buffing, defender level buffs just push things to a whole new level. I think many heroes who aren't familiar with red side AT's are going to be wowed.
Redside I think blasters and defenders are going to be welcomed with open arms. Nothing redside nukes like a blaster. And like I said, defender level buffs are great on Villains. I predict most people will be looking for the most overpowered team combinations they can come up with.
Let's also not also forget Epic AT's and two new Praetorian AT's will be crossing over as well. This is going to be very interesting....
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Two of my Brutes can handle +2/x8 solo without support. A team with two Tanks should be able to handle stuff without needing someone to have the medicine pool. Bonus points if one of those many melees is Shield.
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edit: make sure someone has the medicine pool for the stalker! =)
The validity of your statment does not increase in direct proportion with the frequency and volume at which you speak it.
It just occured to me, while thinking about Going Rogue and switching sides, how different the most common mission team tactics are between red and blue sides.
Red: Everyone enters mish and in a disorganized blob goes forth until they find a spawn. People spend all of 2 seconds tabbing through the enemy to see wth is there. The Stalkers slink up and find the Boss or Lt or potential problem dude and get ready. A MM might engage first, a Brute wanting to show off, a Corrupter who thinks he's hot stuff or a Dom with a new power he just HAS to try out now, or everyone just blasts/stomps/stabs pretty much all together. Make no mistake, most people know what their doing and know how to play their characters, but...it just feels much different than Heroside, more loose, more seat of the pants kinda play usually. Quite fun. Blue: Recruit Fender and all follow Tank interspersed with the rare "hey, let me try something" or "hey guys watch this!". All because (generalizing again) Heroes = specialists, Villains = generalists. Brutes especially, I predict, will get a bad rep from some people who don't realize WHY they are in such a hurry. Stalkers...people will be mindlessly following the guy and get mashed by a huge mob (done that myself once, sad to say), MMs will get yelled at (as usual) for blocking doorways and aggroing other spawns too probably. The RWZ and Cimeora probably mitigated a good deal of the omg factor of teaming with the opposite side, but I reckon people will still howl. Regardless, I think it's going to be amusing to see people try to handle all the differences and come up with "new" tactics using the different archtypes together. |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Brutes at their worst will probably be no more insane than Scrappers.
I don't really team much blueside, but I don't think I've teamed with many Tankers at all. There have probably been some, but my Blueside main is a... I believe the term is Blastroller. Plants/Thermal, and definitely biased towards doing damage rather than support. I can only remember one team with a pushy "you must follow me and I must keep all aggro" tanker, and it was an epic disaster. I've been on teams were I was actually the one leading the way in though - pick a critter on the far side of the group, run up and blast them with Seeds, then Roots, then pick out any troublemakers that are still moving and start crushing them with Strangler and Entangle. (And the Fire epic powers if the mission permits it.) My Thermal shields are *not* heavily slotted, and it rarely seems to matter. I don't do the epic damage of a Blaster, but I can mostly do it to targets that can't fight back. The mark of good team players in this game seems to be adaptability, rather than the rigid roles in games like WoW. It can be *useful* to have a Tanker, but they aren't really essential.
I do agree though that most of the Redside ATs seem to be designed for damage plus their gimmick, rather than the other way around though. Especially now that Dominators don't have the manic/depressive cycle for Domination tied to their damage output. Stalkers still fee a bit odd though, and I can't imagine what playing one must have been like before they had at least a small chance to get critical hits on any attack.
I was on an all melee itf once. While we had some issues with separating rom from the nictus and we had a bunch of death, which was mostly to the crazy stuff we did. We clear the map on the second mission and destroy all crystals at once and saw who could survive the longest. We also charged the platform.
It was one of the most fun things i´ve done so far in the game.
It just occured to me, while thinking about Going Rogue and switching sides, how different the most common mission team tactics are between red and blue sides.
Red: Everyone enters mish and in a disorganized blob goes forth until they find a spawn. People spend all of 2 seconds tabbing through the enemy to see wth is there. The Stalkers slink up and find the Boss or Lt or potential problem dude and get ready. A MM might engage first, a Brute wanting to show off, a Corrupter who thinks he's hot stuff or a Dom with a new power he just HAS to try out now, or everyone just blasts/stomps/stabs pretty much all together. Make no mistake, most people know what their doing and know how to play their characters, but...it just feels much different than Heroside, more loose, more seat of the pants kinda play usually. Quite fun. Blue: Recruit Fender and all follow Tank interspersed with the rare "hey, let me try something" or "hey guys watch this!". All because (generalizing again) Heroes = specialists, Villains = generalists. Brutes especially, I predict, will get a bad rep from some people who don't realize WHY they are in such a hurry. Stalkers...people will be mindlessly following the guy and get mashed by a huge mob (done that myself once, sad to say), MMs will get yelled at (as usual) for blocking doorways and aggroing other spawns too probably. The RWZ and Cimeora probably mitigated a good deal of the omg factor of teaming with the opposite side, but I reckon people will still howl. Regardless, I think it's going to be amusing to see people try to handle all the differences and come up with "new" tactics using the different archtypes together. |
My main problem I know, will come from Fire/Fire Brutes wanting to burn down everything in sight. Or even worse, Masterminds dying on alpha's due to "I usually tank all the time" followed by "this never happens". Even so I hope many will learn that the tactic is the same.
I'm hoping both tanks and Brutes will work together to either pull bigger groups, or work to shred through enemies. I don't doubt that many a rad/rad or Ill/anything will try to be frontrunners with stories of glorious tanking ability. Either way I never bother to knock any tactic that makes me win. Just tired of dealing with ego's. |
I disagree. I think Brutes will be very popular with people who like a fast, energetic pace to missions, and get annoyed at Tanks that play like tortoises rather than armored spearheads.
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Invul > Stone armour
"Cover your ears, ladies and gentlemen, cos THIS is goona HURT! TAAAAAANK!" *Crunch!*
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Personally, I think it's just as likely to see the Villain teams get annoyed at the slow pace of a traditional Tanker/Blaster/healer triad. "Hello, people, that tactic isn't needed in CoH. We villains have been splitting up spawns since the start, and you heroes could do it too if you just tried it..."
I build most of my heroes like that anyway, although I usually don't call attention to it if I get on one of those traditional teams, I just follow along and contribute to the chaos. (If I'm asked to be part of that triad, though, that's when I'll say, "Sorry, I'm not built for that.")
traditional Tanker/Blaster/healer triad. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Exactly.
Note I put "healer" in lower case. Even Tanker is not exclusively the tank, he's just best at it. |
"Hey, ya pancy candy-clad wussbows. Get some!"
*watches them all pile in*
"All yours, boys."
*sniggers as six robotic minions weighing in at ohcrapthatsalotoffirepower wade in and start mashing
Who needs tanks and brutes when your a seven robot army, eh?
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Yeah not a lot of discussion so far about MMs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they'll annoy blueside (particularly tanks).
A lot.
Eh, we're used to it. Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves. "Blast it, Bot-2, get back here *NOW!* I said... you just shot that Titan, didn't you? #$^@! Bot-02, I'll get you for this!" Also, we block doors.
That doesn't stop people from trying to do it in this game anyway.
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Even then, of course, it's not entirely pigeonholed - the tank, if they're doing a good job, will be contributing a hell of a lot to damage and control, same thing with support and same thing with DPS (in fewer ways though).
Have I seen teams that shouldn't go tank/support/dps try to? Yes. And it works badly. But on that note I've also seen the opposite. I've seen a team try to manage without at least one of the traditional roles on team and sometimes it fails. Sometimes it fails miserably. Granted, most of those times it fails because they were trying too hard at something that was too difficult either for team chemistry or for the players behind the builds but whatever.
My point is that whatever your team naturally falls into is how the team should be playing, and I've been on a lot of really really really fun teams where it did break down into those three rolls. I've also been on a lot of crappy teams that did too. But the same is true for the opposite situation too.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
I think a lot of people knock the "traditional" tank-support-dps team builds and look down on it in some way on these forums. Yet, I've been on teams where that was the natural way to work things and it was a hell of a lot of fun.
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Their mere existence is not what gets cited on this forum. The idea that they must exist, always, is what gets cited on this forum.
It is when one must put every combination somehow into 3 types, and build teams with only the idea of those three types that it gets cited on this forum. Its too general for a game built with the specific in mind, and far too limiting to extract the uniqueness out of this game. As far as many are concerned this game, and any game of its type is nothing more than a 3 class system.
That's why the entire genre is in a complete and total funk. It isn't that developers don't want to break out, it is that players keep trying to put things back into what they consider the proper place.
Eh, we're used to it. Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves. "Blast it, Bot-2, get back here *NOW!* I said... you just shot that Titan, didn't you? #$^@! Bot-02, I'll get you for this!" Also, we block doors.
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GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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You know I've had nothing but awesome experiences in Cim and RWZ with mixed teams (not too mention the V-Day pocket D missions). Since Villains are so darned self-sufficient and in many cases self-buffing, defender level buffs just push things to a whole new level. I think many heroes who aren't familiar with red side AT's are going to be wowed.
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I think alot of hero ATs will work really really well on teams Redside.
just make sure someone has the medicine pool!