Hey devs,isnt it about time (and overdue) for..
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-10-02 04:52 in Player Questions
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I thought they neutered AE to keep people from taking advantage of exploits that broke the intended reward/risk ratio? I also thought there was plenty of teaming going on in those AE exploit farms. |
Originally Posted by JenniferJ
You neutered AE to urge people to get back to teaming
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Personally, I like to solo a lot. I certainly hope the developers don't do anything to force people to team. Or kill one of the servers that I play on, for that matter. Fortunately, I don't see them doing either anytime soon.
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Hah! |
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
So, the currency in this game isn't tangible. You can't save some girls purse, then tell her "Hey, go tell the bank I saved you, so I can store some influence in there."
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Trust me, it's certainly tangible. Indeed, there is a whole forum dedicated to this.
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My alts start with tremendous "influence" because of their association with me and my SG. |
Originally Posted by stever
H no.
(start of perspective reality check) I demand that no one be able to transfer any money to any other character, (their own, or anyone else's), other than through the market. All alts should start broke, and have to earn their way through their whole life. I will compromise though, to the system we have now. (end of perspective check) ETA: and definitely no approved interdimensional (intererserver) transfer of funds, other than buying the alt a dimensional transfer. . |
Kinda like how Robin doesn't get laughed at nearly as much as he would if not for Batman.
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This. I would personally prefer it to be used more as a catch-all phrase.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Influence stopped being conceptual in-game a long time ago, with the release of Wentworths, where you can now transfer it to anyone, even if you have no idea who they are. Influence and Infamy are now straight-up forms of currency, despite their names.
I'm still not in favor of the idea 100%, but let's not pretend that Influence isn't money with a fancier name. |
Some Heroes start out stinking rich, some don't. Some are well known, some aren't. Some are rarely seen, some are very public.
None of that really detracts from the job they do. Villains the same, if somewhat mirrored. I've always had a bit of an itch over how the game deals with money.
Still, while it might be an inconvenience at times, it's not a game breaking issue. QoL edits are always nice, mind.
Oh, and paws off the servers if you aren't a Dev
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And this. Better worded than I managed.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
If Bill Gates was running a super group, don't you think he'd make sure that everyone in the group was properly outfitted?
Inf IS money in this game. Any statement to the contrary is based on outdated design thoughts. SG/VGs do fund lowbies. Account wide storage is nothing more than a logical boon of convenience to single account holders. Even from a roleplay standpoint, my main hero and main villain would pool funds because their end goal is the same. If YOU wish to roleplay reasons why your characters wouldn't help each other out, adding account based storage won't change that. |
Bill Z programming: Superior
Damn hell-squishy...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Be more honest than that. We are not talking about Bill outfitting a new worker. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
If Bill Gates was running a super group, don't you think he'd make sure that everyone in the group was properly outfitted?
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You and the OP are talking about John Q. Newhire being able to raid the entire Gates fortune instantly if he wants.
And not just the Bill Gates in our universe, but in many cases, some Bill Gates in another dimension(server).
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Is there any logical reasoning behind this statement? Do you never use credit? Did your parents dump you on the street at 18, without a penny to your name and naked?
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______________________
So you do not like the broke at start part.
OK. Pick some acceptable amount X, for a new superbeing to start out life with.
Each alt can start with that standard amount, just like you start each game of Monopoly with that standard $1500. or just like you start each chess game in the same start position and number of pieces.
And if you are currently playing 5 games of chess simultaneously, you do not just get to grab a bishop from board3 and move it over to board2 just because you are playing both games right now.
And that is the thing. Each alt is really a game unto itself.
Even though they are each in a similar world, and chess games are all on the same 64 squares board, each alt is really a separate game. So each alt earning ones own way is a valid view.
But, as I said in my tongue-in-cheek suggestion,
I am willing to compromise from that view and settle for the system we have now.
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I absolutely feel your pain. They never make it convienent or helpful ever to ease the burden of making new toons when you lack someone else to trust ingame. I would support offline SG invites, but everyone amongst my friends in our (or should I say now my) SG quit, ergo I could care less now. And I absolutely agree some servers are dying depending what side. Redside on Victory is nearly dead, and refuse to pay to move a toon, it's a f'ing joke... And while I believe Going Rogue might solve that problem when it goes live, in the meantime those that do feel their server is dying/dead are left in in the lurch. Double XP weekend will get players active for awhile, as well the Halloween event for it's duration.|
Originally Posted by JenniferJ
1)A "bank" system of some sort..each player on a server has 1 bank account at a bank and all their toons can deposit and withdraw from it.maybe 2 locations like atlas and talos or something (or even more).But somewhere easily accessable to both yellow and green lines.It sure beats having to use someone else to transfer money.Maybe a SMALL charge for using it. Note the word SMALL lol.(Of course free would be better).We already have to pay for server transfers,extra toon slots,and expansion packs that probably arent worth paying for *cough* wedding pack *cough*...We're gonna transfer money anyway so why not make it official?
2)Kill a server.Now that the AE controversy hype (and overhype) has died down some servers are dead again and some stayed dead even during the AE "gold rush".Isn't it about time everyone on dead server(s) was/were moved from one to another.Im not saying kill alot of em but 1 MAYBE 2 would help.You neutered AE to urge people to get back to teaming (and force people to work for a living lol) but while it worked for some servers, others it didnt. Just my opinion..but I think the first one shouldve been done a long time ago...opinions? |
I sympathize, but keep dreaming if you think we'll get anything helpful to make things easier ever again in this game. I think Devs are still pissed at us for destroying the AE.
LOL at stupid "demands". Transferring happens whether wanted or not as long as Trading is allowed. Bump using the market to do it. That don't make sense either. Do you go to wal-mart and give them 100$ and tell them youre gonna go dress up as a diff person and come back in and you want your 100$ back? Dumb, huh? We're the same person.
Scenerio-wise... It's not like John Q raiding a fortune if Bill left access open to it. It's "Here, if anyone needs anything, take it". That's hardly raiding.
Real-life wise... It's OUR accounts and alts and mains, if WE choose to help our lowers, then we should be able to without asking/bothering/trusting someone else. If the DEVS choose to let us is to be seen. I'm all for it, if it'll help anyone elses gameplay.
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I'd like to think Bill Gates would keep the salvage, enhancement, and inspiration storage nicely stocked. Though I'd bet even he would set some kind of limits on the storage permissions. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
If Bill Gates was running a super group, don't you think he'd make sure that everyone in the group was properly outfitted?
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Maybe a better question is: If you ran a super group that included toons owned by players other than yourself, would you freely give influence to any and all of them? Or just your own toons?
If you're apt to be more generous with your own toons than other SG members, that suggests that sharing influence is more of a metagame action than a legitimate roleplaying one.
That aside, an account-wide bank might be a nice addition, and there certainly seems to be plenty of people who want such a feature. Personally, I kind of like the idea of starting with nothing and having to work your way up. I'm not sure I'd like or even use an account-wide banking system, I'd be afraid that it might trivialize the experience by making it too easy for my lowbies to get everything they need & want immediately. But I think I might be in the minority in that philosophy.
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Agreed, an account-wide bank would be convenient, but not necessary or even desirable. Given the already-existing methods of inf transfer, it wouldn't have much impact.|
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
That aside, an account-wide bank might be a nice addition, and there certainly seems to be plenty of people who want such a feature. Personally, I kind of like the idea of starting with nothing and having to work your way up. I'm not sure I'd like or even use an account-wide banking system, I'd be afraid that it might trivialize the experience by making it too easy for my lowbies to get everything they need & want immediately. But I think I might be in the minority in that philosophy.
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I also agree with your basic philosophy of each character earning (and testing) their own keep without gifts from your or others' characters or groups. Self-sustenance is fairly easy to accomplish.
Even so, group support (own or SG) can make things easier, particularly with the immediate availability of crafted enhancements (and inspirations, etc.) in base. It makes overall economic sense (not handing out inf to the game itself) and saves time for field crafters to craft more cheaply made items for the availability of associated/group characters.
An account-wide multi-character bank balance is not at all necessary, but it can (depending on how you want to use it) make things more convenient.
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Originally Posted by stever
Be more honest than that. We are not talking about Bill outfitting a new worker.
You and the OP are talking about John Q. Newhire being able to raid the entire Gates fortune instantly if he wants. And not just the Bill Gates in our universe, but in many cases, some Bill Gates in another dimension(server). First, as you saw top and bottom of my suggestion, I tried to note that it was tongue-in-cheek, but still a valid alternate viewpoint. ______________________ So you do not like the broke at start part. OK. Pick some acceptable amount X, for a new superbeing to start out life with. Each alt can start with that standard amount, just like you start each game of Monopoly with that standard $1500. or just like you start each chess game in the same start position and number of pieces. And if you are currently playing 5 games of chess simultaneously, you do not just get to grab a bishop from board3 and move it over to board2 just because you are playing both games right now. And that is the thing. Each alt is really a game unto itself. Even though they are each in a similar world, and chess games are all on the same 64 squares board, each alt is really a separate game. So each alt earning ones own way is a valid view. But, as I said in my tongue-in-cheek suggestion, I am willing to compromise from that view and settle for the system we have now. . |
No we are not talking about John Q. Newhire. We're talking about a character that has been allowed to join the esteemed ranks of SG-X, a collection of world saving and sickeningly rich superheroes/villains each led by individuals with a net worth of greater than a billion inf.
Individuals whose sole jobs are to run around getting paid to beat the hell out of enemy-y and get paid handsomely to do so.
The only goal of the group is to do the same and doing so efficiently is the only way to do so. In order to assist that efficiency, group leads fund the shaping of lowbies.
Your chess analogy fails badly. I can have character A play with another player's main, log off, log on character B and continue to play with that same player's main. This means that ALL of my characters exist in the same universe. Of course this is also shown by my ability to store enhancements in a bin and grab them later on another character. A game of chess is a closed system.
Each alt is in NO WAY a closed system or game unto itself. The game itself proves that.
Account based storage for inf, recipes, enhancements and every other form of currency used in this game is only one step up from base storage.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
I absolutely feel your pain. They never make it convienent or helpful ever to ease the burden of making new toons when you lack someone else to trust ingame. I would support offline SG invites, but everyone amongst my friends in our (or should I say now my) SG quit, ergo I could care less now. And I absolutely agree some servers are dying depending what side. Redside on Victory is nearly dead, and refuse to pay to move a toon, it's a f'ing joke... And while I believe Going Rogue might solve that problem when it goes live, in the meantime those that do feel their server is dying/dead are left in in the lurch. Double XP weekend will get players active for awhile, as well the Halloween event for it's duration.
I sympathize, but keep dreaming if you think we'll get anything helpful to make things easier ever again in this game. I think Devs are still pissed at us for destroying the AE. |
I hate it when I find myself on the same side of a debate with someone that posts like this.
My current SG and VG have 2 active players. Two. At one time my sg was in the top 10 on Pinnacle. The fact that the other player isn't always online makes the need for offline group invites MORE important so I fail to see why you've ceased caring about it unless your base isn't functional.
As for the rest of that tirade, the devs have done a great deal in assisting players. We used to have a 5 digit cap on trading. Once upon a time we didn't have bases or bins or teleporters or temp travel powers or vet rewards.
Dump the hyperbole. It makes people ignore you.
Be well, people of CoH.
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In addition to what Bill said above, this claim is pure claptrap. I play exclusively on Victory, and, while I'll admit that red-side is generally somewhat less active than blue (I think people from EVERY server can attest to this phenomenon), Victory red-side is by NO means "nearly dead".|
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
Redside on Victory is nearly dead...
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It sounds to me like you don't put much effort into teaming. I won't go into detail (the 30 million other "ON NOES MY SERVER IS DEAD AND I CAN'T TEAM" threads have lots of great pointers on starting/finding teams), but you could always join an active SG (sounds like yours died), start your own teams, recognize that 'a team' does not equal 'a team of 8', etc.
And your contention that paying for a server transfer is "a f'ing joke" is ridiculous -- go check out what other online games charge for character server transfers sometime...I think you'll appreciate the (relatively) nominal cost we pay now.
Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
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"You offered a rare recipe for sale on the black market... here's more free stuff than you could possibly use!"|
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
Keep in mind the in-game currency isn't "money" that can be put in a bank. You get influence, which can be explained like "Oh, you just saved Dr. danger-prone from the evil Arachnos, and prevented them from extracting his secrets. Have some free stuff!"
When your running low on influence, it's also like saying "Hey, you haven't done anything heroic in a while, go beat up Tsoo and I'll give you some more stuff." So, the currency in this game isn't tangible. You can't save some girls purse, then tell her "Hey, go tell the bank I saved you, so I can store some influence in there." |
Yeah the analogy kinda breaks down where the in-game economy is concerned.
I'd prefer a SG bank actually, that INF can be deposited in and withdrawn from. For the purist, this still makes sense. One character is lending their influence/infamy to another (much like a character-to-character transfer). "Hey FantasticMan sent me, said you can help me".
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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THIS --^|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
1: Yes. I've been asking for account wide storage for ages. As one that predominantly soloes, it would be extremely helpful. As would OFFLINE SG INVITES.
2: No. People: Quit Asking For Server Mergers. If you think your server is dead, MOVE. QUIT WHINING AND MOVE. There are a lot of us that prefer our low pop servers just the way they are. |
I couldn't agree more with Bill Z Bubba on these two points.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Inf IS money in this game. Any statement to the contrary is based on outdated design thoughts. SG/VGs do fund lowbies.
Account wide storage is nothing more than a logical boon of convenience to single account holders. |
"Account wide storage is nothing more than a logical boon of convenience to single account holders."
I was in Hasting's (Bookstore) just yesterday, and I was browsing thru a magazine, and read about the changes to DDO & it becoming "DDO - Eberron Unlimited"... and I was suddenly very envious when I read about the account wide shared storage.
(On an unrelated note - I'm skeptical about the semi-free/micro-transaction model. But, I really dig the Eberron Setting for the PnP game!
Also, that they're finally gonna raise the level cap to 20, and it sounds like they made some major changes to accommodate players that want to Solo - which was reported to be essentially impossible when the game was first released. I'm actually tempted to try it out now) - Anywho...
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I hate it when I find myself on the same side of a debate with someone that posts like this.
My current SG and VG have 2 active players. Two. At one time my sg was in the top 10 on Pinnacle. The fact that the other player isn't always online makes the need for offline group invites MORE important so I fail to see why you've ceased caring about it unless your base isn't functional. As for the rest of that tirade, the devs have done a great deal in assisting players. We used to have a 5 digit cap on trading. Once upon a time we didn't have bases or bins or teleporters or temp travel powers or vet rewards. Dump the hyperbole. It makes people ignore you. |
I'd like to point out that in addition to the Markets effectively making INF into "money", the fact that ALL of the various "Vault" locations somehow sharing the same space across (either the red or blue side of) server - (particularly Pocket D) and the existence of Portal Corp for that matter, makes it easily plausible for an account-wide shared storage space...
So far as the storyline and/or not shattering peoples' "sense of disbelief".
Even more so in the near future, given that "Going Rogue" will have side-switching, & the Praetoria "Zones". I have to wonder what they're gonna do about SGs/VGs/The Vault/The Markets (and I know much of that has already been discussed at length here on the forums).
I think its safe to assume the Devs have already got some sort of plans for handling these and possibly other "issues" related to some of GR's features that we may not know about yet.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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Kill Freedom. Just delete it. This would force players to move from one overused server onto other servers instead.|
Originally Posted by JenniferJ
2)Kill a server.Now that the AE controversy hype (and overhype) has died down some servers are dead again and some stayed dead even during the AE "gold rush".Isn't it about time everyone on dead server(s) was/were moved from one to another.Im not saying kill alot of em but 1 MAYBE 2 would help.You neutered AE to urge people to get back to teaming (and force people to work for a living lol) but while it worked for some servers, others it didnt.
Just my opinion..but I think the first one shouldve been done a long time ago...opinions? |
Don't like that idea?
Then don't offer to kill MY servers, either.
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Originally Posted by JenniferJ
1)A "bank" system of some sort..each player on a server has 1 bank account at a bank and all their toons can deposit and withdraw from it.maybe 2 locations like atlas and talos or something (or even more).But somewhere easily accessable to both yellow and green lines.It sure beats having to use someone else to transfer money.Maybe a SMALL charge for using it. Note the word SMALL lol.(Of course free would be better).We already have to pay for server transfers,extra toon slots,and expansion packs that probably arent worth paying for *cough* wedding pack *cough*...We're gonna transfer money anyway so why not make it official?
2)Kill a server.Now that the AE controversy hype (and overhype) has died down some servers are dead again and some stayed dead even during the AE "gold rush".Isn't it about time everyone on dead server(s) was/were moved from one to another.Im not saying kill alot of em but 1 MAYBE 2 would help.You neutered AE to urge people to get back to teaming (and force people to work for a living lol) but while it worked for some servers, others it didnt. Just my opinion..but I think the first one shouldve been done a long time ago...opinions? |
People, let's not be so hasty. You are suggesting that they kill Freedom, right?
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
And your contention that paying for a server transfer is "a f'ing joke" is ridiculous -- go check out what other online games charge for character server transfers sometime...I think you'll appreciate the (relatively) nominal cost we pay now.
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WoW charges $25 - $30 each
SWG and EverQuest is $50 each
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I'll support killing Freedom. |
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
People, let's not be so hasty. You are suggesting that they kill Freedom, right?
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Yeah, that would pretty much fix any population issues with the game. Either everyone would spread out onto the other servers, or they'd all ragequit and never return. But at least we wouldn't have any more posts saying "this server is dead compared to Freedom."
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'll support killing Freedom.
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It's interesting, but that's not really a bad idea. Take Freedom and distribute them to the lowest three population servers with priority given to avoiding name conflicts, keeping SGs together, etc.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Kill Freedom. Just delete it. This would force players to move from one overused server onto other servers instead.
Don't like that idea? Then don't offer to kill MY servers, either. |
Honestly Bill, normally I think your ideas are the product of a diseased mind, but this is honking brilliant!
On the OP's first point: Yes, we need a bank. With multiple (i.e. more than ten) account-wide slots.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
A bank would be convenient, I really want a place to store the extra stuff I get, but can't use yet, or not on the character that got it. I'd particularly like a place to stash extra recipes - other than in WWs. My SG has some storage, but only the leaders can get access to it.
However, with the Market it really doesn't matter! If I need to transfer stuff to another character, I can sell it across and pay my 10% surcharge and risk that someone else will snatch up the goodies before I can log. Or, I can trust my fellow players and develop friendships based on plain generous altruism - yes, it does exist, I've been playing for several years and have yet to have any person steal the stuff I was transferring.
As for Cash for starting characters... Since the advent of WWs I have never had a new toon strapped for cash. I may have to do a little work for it, but even with just Casual use of the Market a new toon can have 100K in 30 minutes. That's plenty to cover all of your needs until 13th Level, when you might have to buy a full suit of DOs from the vendors, if you haven't already got them from buying and selling loot on the Market.
The only time I could see needing more money is if you are PL'd to high level and suddenly need a suit of SOs, or IOs. Oh, OR it you think you deserve to have those rare/unique IOs on your brand new character. Otherwise, just shut up and Play, you'll make enough, quick enough.
And yet, a bank would still be nice.
As for the Servers... we need MORE, not fewer! I've already filled 11 servers, as well as many extra slots on all of them - I need a 12th server for the new characters/powersets!
Be Well!
Fireheart
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For this reason, I support the idea of bringing the EU servers into the current mix, so that ALL players could play with all other CoX players.
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Originally Posted by Fireheart
As for the Servers... we need MORE, not fewer! I've already filled 11 servers, as well as many extra slots on all of them - I need a 12th server for the new characters/powersets!
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Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
* Use the Team Search to set your flag to Looking For Any.
* Join an active SG with players that you like and have compatible playstyles.
* Join your servers global channels. They should be listed in your server section here on the forum.
* Become global friends with other players that you enjoy teaming with.
To add channels to your chat tab, right-click on the tab you want to use, choose Edit Tab. (For whatever reason, I use the Help Tab.) The channels already on that tab will appear on the left, the channels that are available to be added to that tab will appear on the right. Easy-peasy.
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy