2009 Halloween Event Bugs and Feedback
By
AlienOne,
Posted on: 2009-10-01 18:02 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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And while it would obviously be beyond even the baddest taste to have that, it'd still be on the correct side of the fight between heroes and villains, becuase we'd still be fighting agianst the evil - but the "Malleus" badge is putting us on the evil side, because it's presenting an evil thing as being somehow good.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
This is a pretty wild thing to say. Nobody's trying to deny history. But there's an ocean of difference between a history book and throwing something like that into a game, which is just for fun. There's no reason for it to be used, and plenty of healthy alternatives. There's a difference between trying to burn history books and saying "Hey the 5th Column should have concentration camps. That'd be fun, right?"
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I'll add my voice to those asking for the event backstory. But in addition to that,
Why are we even bothering to destroy the banners?
I'm serious here. There are no apparent consequences for just letting them spawn, and despawn. The banners spawn, defenders flock to them, and then... they disappear. Very mysterious, but why should we be so desperate to destroy the banners? This makes even less sense villainside, where villains normally wouldn't care about something weird being summoned unless it affected them.
I would like something to happen if the timer runs out and the banners are still up. Doesn't have to be something huge; maybe a small debuff to everybody who was around a banner when they despawned; maybe a buff to the zone's mobs with a suitably scary aura; just... something that says "uh oh, we should have destroyed those banners before <consequence> happened". Killing everybody near the banners in a giant mystical explosion would work too, that's what the fires in Steel Canyon do; but that doesn't give a villain an incentive to go near them in the first place.
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Badges!
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Originally Posted by Leandro
Why are we even bothering to destroy the banners?
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@Demobot
Also on Steam
The new giant monsters are just the old giant monsters? It'd be cool if they were new and there was a bit of a new look. This event is pretty tired and needs something new. The Winter's Event also needs a new look. 
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What makes you so sure it doesn't offend other people? Just because it doesn't offend you? Neither the badge, my above comment, your quip about Saint Patrick's Day, or the Christmas thing offend me, but that doesn't mean I can't put myself in someone else's shoes and see that something could upset someone.|
Originally Posted by Robo_Knight
Heh, it's thoughts like that are why this country is going down the crapper. Everyone is worried about offending others when it doesn't even offend them.
Heck, I'm 1/4th Irish and I don't mind when people dress up in green on St. Patrick's Day. Heck, it's thoughts like this that are ruining Christmas. It's Merry Christmas, not, Happy Holidays. |
It's easy to kick back and say "Why's everyone so sensitive? Just do stuff my way and we won't have any problems." You show a prime example of insensitivity in your post. You celebrate Christmas, so think everyone else should too. What about other people who aren't celebrating it, but you're trying to forcefully exclude them by not even acknowledging their beliefs? You're annoyed enough that people say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas," so how do you think they feel when you show up and not just ignore their beliefs, but shove yours in their face? And what about "happy holidays" is exclusive to your beliefs that you'd be offended by the usage of it?
It's thoughts like THAT that are ruining this "country" (though I wonder which country of which you speak since no doubt the people in this thread are from different ones). An egocentric view of the world around you, wherein as long as YOU are happy, satisfied, and content, everyone else should be too. As soon as your beliefs or world view are challenged, something must be done about it.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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The "Mystic Aspect" takes the form of a randomly chosen GM of the game when the banners are destroyed. Also this is something new for the event. |
Originally Posted by TheJazMan
The new giant monsters are just the old giant monsters? It'd be cool if they were new and there was a bit of a new look. This event is pretty tired and needs something new. The Winter's Event also needs a new look.
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Hm, the Mystic Aspect takes a random gigantic form....reminds me of Ghostbusters when they were asked to choose the form Gozer would take.
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"I couldn't help it. It just popped in there..."
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Originally Posted by Nericus
The "Mystic Aspect" takes the form of a randomly chosen GM of the game when the banners are destroyed. Also this is something new for the event.
Hm, the Mystic Aspect takes a random gigantic form....reminds me of Ghostbusters when they were asked to choose the form Gozer would take. |
@Texarkana
@Thexder
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Look, anything and everything will offend someone at some point. There is nothing you can do that will not offend some one in some way or some how. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
What makes you so sure it doesn't offend other people? Just because it doesn't offend you? Neither the badge, my above comment, your quip about Saint Patrick's Day, or the Christmas thing offend me, but that doesn't mean I can't put myself in someone else's shoes and see that something could upset someone.
It's easy to kick back and say "Why's everyone so sensitive? Just do stuff my way and we won't have any problems." You show a prime example of insensitivity in your post. You celebrate Christmas, so think everyone else should too. What about other people who aren't celebrating it, but you're trying to forcefully exclude them by not even acknowledging their beliefs? You're annoyed enough that people say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas," so how do you think they feel when you show up and not just ignore their beliefs, but shove yours in their face? And what about "happy holidays" is exclusive to your beliefs that you'd be offended by the usage of it? It's thoughts like THAT that are ruining this "country" (though I wonder which country of which you speak since no doubt the people in this thread are from different ones). An egocentric view of the world around you, wherein as long as YOU are happy, satisfied, and content, everyone else should be too. As soon as your beliefs or world view are challenged, something must be done about it. |
Heck, you worrying about offending everyone around you is offending me right now.
What will you do to accommodate me?
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
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Wish you happy holidays and let you be on your way. |
Originally Posted by Robo_Knight
Look, anything and everything will offend someone at some point. There is nothing you can do that will not offend some one in some way or some how.
Heck, you worrying about offending everyone around you is offending me right now. What will you do to accommodate me? |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I am Wiccan and I have no problem with the Malleus badge...the name fits the action that you are doing to get this badge! I don't see the big hooplah?
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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The problem is that it's a badge for Heroes that has a title that's taken for a horrible and evil book that helped in the murder of thousands and thousands of people, mostly women.|
Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
I am Wiccan and I have no problem with the Malleus badge...the name fits the action that you are doing to get this badge! I don't see the big hooplah?
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It's not a religous objection - it's a moral one.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That offends me too. :P
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Wish you happy holidays and let you be on your way.
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My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
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As long as it's impossible not to, I won't try to put for the effort to avoid it!
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Originally Posted by Robo_Knight
That offends me too. :P
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I find this position objectionably politically correct, and oppose its influence over the game on these grounds.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's not a religous objection - it's a moral one.
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Blue
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The problem is that it's a badge for Heroes that has a title that's taken for a horrible and evil book that helped in the murder of thousands and thousands of people, mostly women.
It's not a religous objection - it's a moral one. |
Wanna go with the "moral objection" route? Let's dance.
- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Shark_Hunter_Badge The number of sharks killed by humans is astronomically higher than the number of humans killed by sharks!
- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Cap_Buster_Badge Innocent people get caught in the crossfire of gang shootouts every day!
- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Piratical_Badge Pirates damage the economy and make trade routes dangerous!
- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Homewrecker_Badge Sleeping with someone else's husband is a bad example for young women!
- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Assassin_Badge Do I even NEED to say why this isn't heroic?
I somehow doubt that's what you want. Plus, the witch hunts you refer to were indeed a very regrettable part of human history, but they occurred about 3 or 4 CENTURIES ago.
Formerly known as Stormy_D
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None of those are on quite the same level as the "Malleus" badge - it's a reference to a very speciffic evil thing, not just a generic bad thing - it's not morally ambiguous - it's pure evil.|
Originally Posted by Autonomous Prime
Wanna go with the "moral objection" route? Let's dance.
I somehow doubt that's what you want. Plus, the witch hunts you refer to were indeed a very regrettable part of human history, but they occurred about 3 or 4 CENTURIES ago. |
The passing of time doen't make anything less evil - bad things are still bad, no matter how many years ago they happened.
Also, a homewrecker is a term for a man just as much as a woman, so you should say that it sets a bad example to young men too
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And my position is based on that horrible book helping the murder of thousands and thousands of women over several centuries.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I find this position objectionably politically correct, and oppose its influence over the game on these grounds.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Humanity has done countless horrible things throughout time, and unfortunately, despite great strides, continues to do them. If we allow ourselves to attach emotional charge to every word that has any possible association with those events, and refuse to allow their use on those grounds, we create a society of censorship and fear of reprisal.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And my position is based on that horrible book helping the murder of thousands and thousands of women over several centuries.
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Words and the context in which they are used is important. I despise political correctness that ignores context. The word in context is not honoring the awful historical deeds of which you speak, nor is it intended to evoke them. It is not used in a derogatory way. You have attached this significance to it, and your goal is to enforce acknowledgment of that significance on everyone else, and then enforce a change in their behavior and/or environment to suit that viewpoint.
I have pity on those who lost their lives, and can only imagine the horror of those victims and their loved ones. I understand your thought process, and while I acknowledge your logic, I believe with the most absolute of convictions that the conclusion to which it leads you is wrong. I believe actions like yours here are misguided and harmful, and I oppose them whenever I can.
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Red
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Please enlighten me as to what other context earning a badge called Malleus for defeating witches has. I can't think of any other reason for the name than to be evocative of witch hunts.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Words and the context in which they are used is important. I despise political correctness that ignores context. The word in context is not honoring the awful historical deeds of which you speak, nor is it intended to evoke them. It is not used in a derogatory way. You have attached this significance to it, and your goal is to enforce acknowledgment of that significance on everyone else, and then enforce a change in their behavior and/or environment to suit that viewpoint.
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"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
I guess I'll bite in regards to the why and witches connection. in fact I'll quote from the Wikipedia article on The Malleus Maleficarum:
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Of course Malleus could also refer to a bacterial infection, a bone in your ear, a mollusc, or the Latin word for hammer.
| The Malleus Maleficarum[2] (Latin for "The Hammer Against Witches", or "Der Hexenhammer" in German) is a famous treatise on witches, written in 1486 by Heinrich Kramer and Jacob Sprenger, two Inquisitors of the Catholic Church, and was first published in Germany in 1487.[3] The main purpose of the Malleus was systematically to refute arguments claiming that witchcraft does not exist, refute those who expressed skepticism about its reality, to prove that witches were more often women than men, and to educate magistrates on the procedures that could find them out and convict them.[4] |
@Aoide Muse
Arc IDs: #3571 Digital Love, #182068 The Rikti Roll, #334016 The Null Earth Saga: A Reflected Web
The witches in the game, and Hallowen invasions themselves are associated with artifact/book alled the Malleus Mundi. According to the Paragon Times article at the time of the original invasions, there was a mystical group believed to be behind the portentions times to come. No mainstream villain group has ever been identified, and the Witches who appear with the invasion are the only clearly organized group of entities involved - the fact that they are actually an organized group is made clear in their background descriptions. It is quite reasonable to assume they may be in possession of the Malleus Mundi and using it to cause the annual incursions.
There is, therefore, a clear opportunity for association between the witches of the invasion and the Malleus Mundi itself.
There is no clear line of association between the Malleus Mundi and the historical Malleus Maleficarium. The two are not clearly linked in the game, nor is there any connotation that the in-game badge honors or celebrates the historical text or attrocities it inspired. Any claim that they are is speculation. Effectively censoring the badge on the basis of this assumed association is extremist.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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So you beat up witches and get a badge called "Malleus", and that's not evoking the witch killing book called "Malleus Maleficarum"?
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The word in context is not honoring the awful historical deeds of which you speak, nor is it intended to evoke them.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The "There is no official background about this group at this time" part helps you come to that opinion?|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
The witches in the game, and Hallowen invasions themselves are associated with artifact/book alled the Malleus Mundi. According to the Paragon Times article at the time of the original invasions, there was a mystical group believed to be behind the portentions times to come. No mainstream villain group has ever been identified, and the Witches who appear with the invasion are the only clearly organized group of entities involved - the fact that they are actually an organized group is made clear in their background descriptions. It is quite reasonable to assume they may be in possession of the Malleus Mundi and using it to cause the annual incursions.
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There is, therefore, a clear opportunity for association between the witches of the invasion and the Malleus Mundi itself. There is no clear line of association between the Malleus Mundi and the historical Malleus Maleficarium. The two are not clearly linked in the game, nor is there any connotation that the in-game badge honors or celebrates the historical text or attrocities it inspired. Any claim that they are is speculation. Effectively censoring the badge on the basis of this assumed association is extremist. |
Does that mean the "Hunter" badge is a reference to the Vampires hunting us, and not us being Vampire hunters? And the "Buster" badge for the Ghosts is for them busting us, and not us being ghost busters?
The "Malleus" badge is a very obvious reference to the historical mass murder of women, and it has no place being connected to anything good or heroic.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Any claim that the Witches are behind the original Halloween event is just as much speculation. The article mentions several of the mystical groups that are already in the game as suspects, but never mentions any mysterious witches as being seen with the Malleus Mundi. You are obfuscating because you don't like political correctness, and I find that to be every bit as misguided and harmful as someone putting meanings into words that are not there in the original context.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The witches in the game, and Hallowen invasions themselves are associated with artifact/book alled the Malleus Mundi. According to the Paragon Times article at the time of the original invasions, there was a mystical group believed to be behind the portentions times to come. No mainstream villain group has ever been identified, and the Witches who appear with the invasion are the only clearly organized group of entities involved - the fact that they are actually an organized group is made clear in their background descriptions. It is quite reasonable to assume they may be in possession of the Malleus Mundi and using it to cause the annual incursions.
There is, therefore, a clear opportunity for association between the witches of the invasion and the Malleus Mundi itself. There is no clear line of association between the Malleus Mundi and the historical Malleus Maleficarium. The two are not clearly linked in the game, nor is there any connotation that the in-game badge honors or celebrates the historical text or attrocities it inspired. Any claim that they are is speculation. Effectively censoring the badge on the basis of this assumed association is extremist. |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
"Happy Holidays" actually *includes* them in the festivities, whereas "Merry Christmas" excludes all of the above.