City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

2009 Halloween Event Bugs and Feedback

AlienOne

By AlienOne,
Posted on: 2009-10-01 18:02 in The Global Training Room Test Server

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
It might dawn on you that they had never actually heard of it. Very few people in the world have any education in the witch trials other than to generally know they happened and maybe that a lot of nearly certainly innocent people were killed.
"Nearly certainly innocent"? Of course they were innocent - there's no such thing as witches - people can't really cast spells or fly though the air or put curses on people - no one who was ever murdered for being a witch was ever guilty of being witch, because actually being a witch is totally impossible.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
"Nearly certainly innocent"? Of course they were innocent - there's no such thing as witches - people can't really cast spells or fly though the air or put curses on people - no one who was ever murdered for being a witch was ever guilty of being witch, because actually being a witch is totally impossible.
I meant innocent in the sense of "innocent children" or "innocent bystanders", not as in "not guilty of actually being a witch".

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
It's Greek, not Latin
"Icon" is Latin.

Edit: To clarify, "Necronomicon" is supposed to be the name of the Latin (O. Wormius) translation of the book.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
"Icon" is Latin.

Edit: To clarify, "Necronomicon" is supposed to be the name of the Latin (O. Wormius) translation of the book.
From Greek, yes

And "necro" is Greek for "dead", not the Latin.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
It's Greek, not Latin
Also, I'd like to see a list of fictional books with the "icon" ending that weren't inspired by HPL - i'd be a pretty short list
Limiting it to fiction is an unnecessary qualifier. The -icon ending is not unknown, especially used for collections, anthologies, and reference works. It's use predates Lovecraft. So, if someone uses the -icon ending for a book (fictional or non-fiction), why would you assume it must be a rip off of Lovecraft and the Necronomicon?


Satyricon - ~190
Poeticon Astronomicon - ~200s
England's Helicon - 1600
Panegyricon (various collections) - 1600s
Synopticon - 1952
Cryptonomicon - 1990

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
From Greek, yes
Yes... and? That doesn't make it a "greek" word. It's a Latin word derived from a Greek one.

Quote:
And "necro" is Greek for "dead", not the Latin.
Actually, it's both. For example, there is a word attributed to Late Latin: necromantia, derived from the Greek nekromanteia, which is the root of the modern word necromancy. So it was a prefix even in Latin.

Whether Lovecraft knew this when he created the name, I don't know. He may have thought he was mixing Greek and Latin. However, it was supposed to be the Latin translation of the Greek title.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Limiting it to fiction is an unnecessary qualifier. The -icon ending is not unknown, especially used for collections, anthologies, and reference works. It's use predates Lovecraft. So, if someone uses the -icon ending for a book (fictional or non-fiction), why would you assume it must be a rip off of Lovecraft and the Necronomicon?
The context would be important

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

You guys will argue over anything...

Edit: I'm actually in the process of writing a sf/f book focused on necromancy. I'm extremely glad the publishers don't have these concerns.

 

Posted

Well, in any event, I wish the Halloween Event would start in early October as opposed to late October. I've been in the trick or treat spirit since September.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rroht View Post
You guys will argue over anything...

Edit: I'm actually in the process of writing a sf/f book focused on necromancy. I'm extremely glad the publishers don't have these concerns.
Well, as necromancy isn't real, it's very unlikely they'd object to it - but if you were writing about it being a good thing to murder women for being "witches", then they might object.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autonomous Prime View Post
<clipped> Plus, the witch hunts you refer to were indeed a very regrettable part of human history, but they occurred about 3 or 4 CENTURIES ago.
And the Crucifixion happened aorund 20 centuries ago. Yet it seems to still be significant today for many people.

How long ago an event happened doesn't negate it, and yet on the other hand with more time I would like to hope there would grow more tolerance of a variety of things. (After a manner of speaking)

At least for myself, I find no issues in regards to the holiday event, and I tend to count myself amoung the pagan side of the religious spectrum.

Bottom line? It still is a game, and the creators of it are trying to entertain. Do the best to have fun.

x Jeremy M.

Global Handle: @JeremyM
City of Heroes LiveJournal Community

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
From Greek, yes

And "necro" is Greek for "dead", not the Latin.
Necro... Nom... Icon

*ponder*

OH NOEZ!!! Zombies are going to eat the tailors!!!!!!

x Jeremy M.

Global Handle: @JeremyM
City of Heroes LiveJournal Community

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyM View Post
How long ago an event happened doesn't negate it, and yet on the other hand with more time I would like to hope there would grow more tolerance of a variety of things. (After a manner of speaking)

At least for myself, I find no issues in regards to the holiday event, and I tend to count myself amoung the pagan side of the religious spectrum.
I'm objecting to it from a moral point of view, not a religous one.
Also, from your name, you seem to be a guy, so it might not be quite the same for you.

Quote:
Bottom line? It still is a game, and the creators of it are trying to entertain. Do the best to have fun.
And the game would be just as much fun without the "Malleus" badge in it.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I'm objecting to it from a moral point of view, not a religous one.
Also, from your name, you seem to be a guy, so it might not be quite the same for you.



And the game would be just as much fun without the "Malleus" badge in it.
Silly question Golden: Have you perhaps PM'd this idea to Synapse since he seems to be the one in charge of badges these days to see if it could be renamed on the basis that you have provided?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
This is, frankly, preposterous. This is like saying that every use of the suffix "-icon" in the title of a fictional book clearly had to be inspired by H.P. Lovecraft because it's the most recognizable book of magic with that of Latin in its name.
Not even remotely preposterous. The use of malleus in relation to magic is entirely based on the original association in the title Malleus Maleficarium. It isn't "the most recognizable"association, it's the only one.

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And I find you assertions that it must be so because it makes sense to you to be equally humorous.
Actually, that's your assertion about the role of the Coven. My assertion is, and always has been, that the Malleus Maleficarium is the inspiration for naming the Malleus badge, either directly, as a word used in the title of a text advocating the killing of witches, or indirectly by providing the inspiration for the name Malleus Mundi. For me to be wrong on that would require a coincidence of astronomical proportions.

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Really? We know it usurped control? We don't know it didn't just let them breach to Primal Earth? Can you cite a reference for that claim? The Paragon Times article for it makes no such claim.
Fair enough. Perhaps the only level of control in either event was one of destination, diverting beings from their normal places to Paragon. They didn't need to be controlled to attack the heroes they found there, it may just be confusion or their normal belligerence. The Circle of Thorns do seem to believe that it can be used to bind Faathim to their will, however.

Quote:
And this invalidates the theory how, exactly? Come on, this is easy to make up a viable explanation for. If we assume they let Rularuu into Primal Earth (and who knows where else) by accident, why would they show up with them?
It doesn't invalidate it. It does, however, show that none of the mobs that we fight have to be the instigators of the event. The instigators of the first event weren't present for us to see, why would those of the second event be? I tend to believe that the latter is the case, especially since the Circle of Thorns have the thing by the time of Scirocco's patron arc. They could have stolen it back from whoever took it, but the simplest answer, barring any new information, is that they had it the whole time.

"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."

 

Posted

Just a thought, but isn't it part of the backstory of the Malleus Mundi that A) it apparently cannot be destroyed and B) tends to randomly jump to new owners occasionally? Or am I confusing it with some other artifact of ancient power?

*Edit* Nevermind, I found the data on the wiki. Clearly, I was thinking of something else, since the Malleus Mundi doesn't jump around, and might have been destroyed. Since only a few hundred thousand pages of it have been crafted into things by now.

 

Posted

Feedback from testing on 10/13 - redside, lvl 50 Brute (+4 x6 no AV)

Very cool when the event kicks off in a zone - music and audio is perfect for the event. NPCs run away when it begins - nice touch.

Clicking the i in the NAV bar (when near a banner) produced some very helpful information and backstory. I copied and pasted it into Word, and it appears to be complete and helpful.

As I was the only one in Cap, I quickly discovered that this part of the Halloween event is not soloable. That is, despite being at a banner and defeating the critters as they spawned, I was never able to get the progress bar to show any blue. The critters did not spawn quick enough for my liking, and often only two spawned at a time. I assume that because I was the only one there, only minions and LTs spawned.

While the spawning is similar to the Zombie Apocalypse, at least with the AZ you can get some badges just by knocking off minions and LTs. Not the case with the banners, as you can not make a banner vulnerable on your own. Just my observations - however, I assume that folks who play at off hours OR on low pop servers will quickly notice this once it goes live.

I was at two different banners during the event. The Terror banner stopped spawning critters after 5 minutes, so I moved on to the Fiend banner.

Stats for those that like stats:
minion defeat = 2,363 inf; LT defeat = 6,114 inf
defeated 52 LTs, 48 minions during the event
1 SO drop, 12 salvage drops, 13 insp drops, 6 recipe drops (5 generic)

I think there might be an issue with the drops at the Fiend banner. My first 13 kills there dropped 6 inspirations (nothing else) - my next 69 kills there dropped 0 inspirations, 6 recipes and 9 salvage.

Go Team Venture!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer View Post
It does, however, show that none of the mobs that we fight have to be the instigators of the event. The instigators of the first event weren't present for us to see, why would those of the second event be?
There is no such thing as proof by lack of evidence. It might support the interpretation you offer, but it does not show it.

Edit: By the way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer View Post
The use of malleus in relation to magic is entirely based on the original association in the title Malleus Maleficarium. It isn't "the most recognizable"association, it's the only one.
You might want to do a little googling for the Malleus Daemonum. It appears to have been a real book published in Venice in 1620, and is purportedly a book of exorcisms.

Edit2: Aha, I found it at the online collection of the British Library. So yes, it's a real book. Therefore no, the Malleus Maleificarium is not the only prior example of a mysticism/magic-related book with "Malleus" in the title.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
There is no such thing as proof by lack of evidence. It might support the interpretation you offer, but it does not show it.
The fact that the instigators of the Rularuu Invasion were not present at the portals does indeed show that the instigators don't have to be among the ones that we're fighting. That isn't proof by lack of evidence, it's an identity. It happened.

Quote:
Edit: By the way...



You might want to do a little googling for the Malleus Daemonum. It appears to have been a real book published in Venice in 1620, and is purportedly a book of exorcisms.

Edit2: Aha, I found it at the online collection of the British Library. So yes, it's a real book. Therefore no, the Malleus Maleificarium is not the only prior example of a mysticism/magic-related book with "Malleus" in the title.
There's one whole other Malleus text? Wow. Snark aside, exorcisms are religious rites, not necessarily magical. I doubt that a priest would say that he was working magic during an exorcism, for instance, unless he wanted to be defrocked. It is a related area, though, as demons are at least players in both witchcraft and possession.

"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer View Post
The fact that the instigators of the Rularuu Invasion were not present at the portals does indeed show that the instigators don't have to be among the ones that we're fighting. That isn't proof by lack of evidence, it's an identity. It happened.
The onus is to prove that there's no other possible explanation than that the "Malleus" badge relates to the Malleus Malleficarium. That requires at least a strong argument that no other explanation is reasonable, if not that none is possible. The lack of visibility by the (presumably) same instigators of the Rularuu invasion is not clear evidience that the same party could not also have caused the subsequent Halloween one. I am not out to prove your theory wrong, but to illustrate that it is not the only viable one, and thus suggest that the Malleus Malleificarium is not the only possible explanation for the badge title.

Quote:
There's one whole other Malleus text? Wow. Snark aside, exorcisms are religious rites, not necessarily magical. I doubt that a priest would say that he was working magic during an exorcism, for instance, unless he wanted to be defrocked. It is a related area, though, as demons are at least players in both witchcraft and possession.
There's a very fine line between magic and religion, both in history and fiction. Trafficing with demons is seen on both sides of that coin. Notably, though, there's little historical precedent for the sorcerer or wizard (or witch) as distinct from fetters of religion. That's a more recent invention, derived in part from the cross-pollination of early physical science and religious lore seen in the works of mideaval alchemists. Other than them, there's not a lot basis for "mages" in the more familiar D&D sense - persons who traffic with extraplanar beings and esoteric magical forces without specific religious overtones. Even real-world alchemists often worked religious lore into their works, even if it was sometimes apocryphal.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Further discussions along this line are unproductive, so I'll be locking this. Also please try to refrain from commenting on other user's feedback in official feedback threads, as this does little to help collect the specific information we need.

-Mod8-

If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling

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