Quote:
I love my Ice / Storm Controller. He is my main and the first one to 50. The set is an easy set to use too. I've solo'ed a lot on him and I still farm once in a while with him. Jack Frost has improved too. He's much more melee friendly then he was a couple of years ago and will use both range and melee, much more balanced. I havn't played /cold yet, but I'll be getting in to is soon enough. I'm sure you'll enjoy the control set. |
Originally Posted by Flareonic
Ive been playing for about 15 months and ive only seen a handfull of ice controllers. Is the set not very good or is it just old news or what?
Im in the process of leveling up an ice/cold and i find the combo very fun, not as fun as my Ill/Rad, but still fun. Sooooo whats the deal? |
I am not on him much because of my alt'ism, but he still sees action. It may be one reason you don't see many of them. You may also see a lot more Fire / Kin running around for the farming and the Ice control is working on their day job badges.
Demonfest - 50 - Demon / Thermal Mastermind
Covered Shadow - 50 - Dark Melee / Shield Scrapper
Ice is one of my favorites to use on the ITF where Shout of Command can hamper other trollers by negating their holds, stuns, etc. Ice keeps going strong with the amount of -recharge it can kick out. Outside of that it's still a very solid control set that will make you feel safe. However, it is very low damage, and in the farm crazy world of I15 that just wouldn't fly.
Another thing that may drive newcomers away from ice is how it deals with the alpha strike, or rather how a teammate can interupt how you deal with the alpha strike. Ice Slick is a very good opener generally (especially when used from out of line of sight), but it is too easily negated by another controller's AoE immobilize or even your own. Earth has a comparable problem with Earthquake, but can quickly recover with the Stalagmites/Stone Cages combo. Ice, however, only has the PBAoE hold or an aggro generating sleep to work for the quick fix until you've stacked some slows.
The lack of damage and possibly issues using Ice Slick may chase people away, but for those that stay they'll find the extremely powerful secondary effect of -recharge well worth it, I think.
In my quest to research a new prospective alt, I came to the conclusion that the incompatibility of Frostbite and Ice Slick bugs me. I don't like the idea of having to rely on Glacier for setting up AoE containment. That's my personal beef with Ice Control. I'd be more partial to the set if Frostbite didn't have KU protection on it. Other than that, it seems like a nice soft-control set.
Quote:
Bottom line is that it's low damage and it's best powers don't play well together. It's nice if you like hard controls some times and soft controls all the time. It also makes a difference what secondary you pair it with.|
Originally Posted by Flareonic
Ive been playing for about 15 months and ive only seen a handfull of ice controllers. Is the set not very good or is it just old news or what?
Im in the process of leveling up an ice/cold and i find the combo very fun, not as fun as my Ill/Rad, but still fun. Sooooo whats the deal? |
It's not a usually a very active primary depending on how you build it so for some it's boring while for others they can chat with that primary and still be effective.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Ice has many similarities to Earth Control, but Earth is a little better, so Ice isn't chosen as often. It is the lowest damage primary for controllers, which is probably its biggest problem. Ice provides good team control, however. The most popular combos seem to be Ice/Storm (Storms makes up some for Ice's lack of damage, and goes with Ice thematicly), Ice/Rad and Ice/Kin (because Ice can be played in melee).|
Originally Posted by Flareonic
Ive been playing for about 15 months and ive only seen a handfull of ice controllers. Is the set not very good or is it just old news or what?
Im in the process of leveling up an ice/cold and i find the combo very fun, not as fun as my Ill/Rad, but still fun. Sooooo whats the deal? |
Ice control is somewhat unique in that it can easily be built as a melee controller or a ranged controller by the simple choice between one of two slow powers: Arctic Air or Shiver. AA provides good toggle damage mitigation for melee fighters, so an Ice Controller makes a good support character for melee characters. AA is a slow/confuse/afraid aura that seems to mitigate about 60-70% of melee damage once slotted with enough Confuse enhancements. Shiver is a huge cone of slow/Recharge debuff, so it is easy to stand back from the fight and slow all the foes to a crawl.
Where Earth has three ranged AoE controls (Stalagmites+Stone Cages, Earthquake and Volcanic Gasses), Ice only has one, Ice Slick. And other controllers casting AoE Immobilize powers almost entirely negate Ice Slick. Ice's own Frostbite will negate Ice Slick -- so you don't use it on Ice Slick. On my Ice/Storm, I didn't take Frostbite until level 30, and that was only to get the -knockback for Tornado. Use Frostbite for Containment? Ice has almost no damage, so Containment was not much of a concern. I focused much more on control. Ice's AoE Hold is PB AoE, making it a little less useful, and you don't get it until level 26. It does not have a stun to stack with the AoE Immob.
I made my Ice/Storm to be a melee character by taking AA and skipping Shiver. (If I had wanted to control from range, I would have taken Earth, instead.) Depending upon your secondary, it may be worth taking AA and Shiver together (but I had Snow Storm). In general, I like to let the melee guys go in, cast Ice Slick in the area, and then rush in with AA running to mitigate as much damage as I can while controlling individuals with Block of Ice, single target damage with Chilblain. When there is another controller on the team who wants to Immob everything (Fire/kins . . .Oh, did I mumble something?), then I focus more on the AoE slows and single target controls than on knockdown.
I enjoyed taking my Ice/Storm to 50. It was my first 'troller with either of those powersets, and the ability to alternate Ice Slick and Freezing Rain to give a perma-knockdown patch was pretty nice. Ice is a cool looking powerset (pun intended). AA is my melee slow, while Snow Storm is my ranged slow. And Storm adds some badly needed damage in the late levels. My Ice/Storm can actually solo, which is tough with other secondaries paired with Ice. However, Ice is one of two primaries that can make good use of Rad's Choking Cloud, so Ice/Rad is worth considering. Also, because Ice can be a melee set to support the melee fighters, it goes well with Kinetics.
I really like to take my Ice/Storm on the ITF, as the slow/recharge debuff is one of the more effective control/debuff effects on that TF. Knockdown also works well even when other controls don't work. Tornado is autohit, great against AVs and EBs.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
One of the advantages of ice is that it is so effective with just a few powers. This helps with a secondary that has very few skippable powers (Cold would be one of those secondaries).
My damage went up exponentially once they added IOs and I was able to slot procs into Arctic Air (I actually only have 2 of the 3 damage procs in it) and when the changed Jacks AI so that he actually entered melee instead of throwing snowballs.
But, like grav, its not a set I see myself rolling over and over again. At most Id roll each one more time with /storm. I love earth for its ability to actually. . . . control. Ill and fire will always be the controllers that can also solo. Ice was just a nice change of pace.
My Characters
I feel like Local Man is making me redundant lately, but yeah, I agree with him-- Ice and Earth, Earth being a little better.
OTOH, I will say: I think most people underestimate how good a thoroughly slotted Arctic Air is, especially with a secondary that gives you an excuse to be close-- Kin, to a lesser extent rad, bubbles, and therm.
Having AA perpetually ready, and Ice Slick perpetually ready for a generous amount of mitigation wherever you place it, that's a lot of super-available mitigation, even in groups that are being rolled through fast.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
I just noticed last night that they've added confusion bubble graphics to Arctic Air, by the way, which makes you feel more controllery.
I love my ice-emp troller but i am not a fan of cold dom. it does nothing for me. I would say ice control is one of my faves.
In a related note, now that Earth can have crystal graphics, do you think it'll make any difference to people choosing between Earth and Ice? Since one of the complaints about Earth was how invasive its graphics were.
(I happen to like them both, so it doesn't bother me. But i think they get overshadowed by the Fire/Kin farming builds.)
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
I love Ice Control, unfortunatly it isnt as good as earth at controlling and lacks damage compaired to Fire but i do have a soft spot for Ice from using it in PvP so much. -Recharge is one of the best secondary effects. AA is a fantastic power, one of my favorates.
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
My Ice/Storm is one of my favorite characters. Early on, the damage is lacking, but the controls more than make up for it. Ice Slick and Freezing Rain is effective even against the Romans, as are the slows, making it one of the better Controllers for the ITF. In the later levels, Lightning Storm adds enough damage to counteract Ice/'s low damage, and because Ice/ is good at setting containment, when you pick up the APPs, your damage absolutely skyrockets.
On top of that, proc'd out Frostbite followed by proc'd out Freezing Rain followed by Ice Storm is fuuun.
-Recruited under Arachnos' "Equal-Opportunity Villainy" plan-
ive had my ice troller since issue 3 i believe...one of my favorite toons for sure.
the ice control isnt like the others with a splat power which is hella fun
the only issue i have with it is dont team with earth trollers ...they cant understand ice trollers unless they are one.
you lay down ice patch and no kidding 1 second later and some noob earth troller hits stone cages and there goes all the kb from ice patch.
i mean thats like using burn on a mob thats held and a storm troller uses gale...you defeat any purpose.
Quote:
That could be said of any controller with an immob. Heck, earth trollers have their own knockdown power so they should understand the pain more than anyone. IMO, the biggest offenders for negating knockdown are fire/kins and occasionally plant/kins. Plant, it can be noted, has a pet that will mindlessly spam an AoE immob too.
|
Originally Posted by Coldmed
ive had my ice troller since issue 3 i believe...one of my favorite toons for sure.
the ice control isnt like the others with a splat power which is hella fun the only issue i have with it is dont team with earth trollers ...they cant understand ice trollers unless they are one. you lay down ice patch and no kidding 1 second later and some noob earth troller hits stone cages and there goes all the kb from ice patch. i mean thats like using burn on a mob thats held and a storm troller uses gale...you defeat any purpose. |
Quote:
I have a lot more trouble with Fire and Plant controllers. In part, because there are a lot more of them. And, there are some Earth controllers who don't take Stone Cages because of the complaints that it is too obtrusive. Fire/Kins constantly spam Fire Cages. Plant controllers understandibly use Roots constantly because it does a lot more damage than other Immobs. If either of them are on the team, I just figure I might as well not bother with Ice Slick.
|
Originally Posted by Coldmed
ive had my ice troller since issue 3 i believe...one of my favorite toons for sure.
the ice control isnt like the others with a splat power which is hella fun the only issue i have with it is dont team with earth trollers ...they cant understand ice trollers unless they are one. you lay down ice patch and no kidding 1 second later and some noob earth troller hits stone cages and there goes all the kb from ice patch. i mean thats like using burn on a mob thats held and a storm troller uses gale...you defeat any purpose. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Rather depends on the situation. I play both and routinely spam the immobs-- EVEN around Ice and Earth controllers most of the time-- because damage is infinitely more important than mitigation IF you're not routinely teamwiping. |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
If either of [fire and plant] are on the team, I just figure I might as well not bother with Ice Slick.
|
Ordinarily a competent Fire particularly will quit spamming Fire Cages and running in to do damage if there's too much death. Too much death in ordinary doors with a Plant on hand means you're either fighting Nemesis, or doing something wrong.
It's an irritating thing to face up to, especially if you've sunk time and effort into Earth and Ice 'trollers, or if you just liked the idea of controlling itself being very valuable. But AOE damage is King, and Fire and Plant bring a noteworthy amout of it.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
Quote:
I absolutely agree . . . in the big picture. But when I'm playing my Ice or Earth controllers, well then whatever I'm trying to do is clearly more important than anything anyone else is trying to do, so I feel fully justified to get frustrated when that teammate who just killed off the entire spawn messed up my plan to have them bouncing on their tails . . . |
Originally Posted by Enantiodromos
Rather depends on the situation. I play both and routinely spam the immobs-- EVEN around Ice and Earth controllers most of the time-- because damage is infinitely more important than mitigation IF you're not routinely teamwiping.
Ordinarily a competent Fire particularly will quit spamming Fire Cages and running in to do damage if there's too much death. Too much death in ordinary doors with a Plant on hand means you're either fighting Nemesis, or doing something wrong. It's an irritating thing to face up to, especially if you've sunk time and effort into Earth and Ice 'trollers, or if you just liked the idea of controlling itself being very valuable. But AOE damage is King, and Fire and Plant bring a noteworthy amout of it. |
Because everyone knows that taking longer to kill everthing is better, right?
But you also make an unjustified assumption -- that the other guys know what they are doing. If I can control the spawn and mitigate damage to the team, but the Fire Controller is immobilizing everything in sight just because he can -- and everything in sight is shooting at us, then I feel a little justified in being frustrated.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I didn't read the all of the posts, just a few of the first ones, but I'm curious, what about Ice/Ice Dom troller?
Quote:
/this.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
But you also make an unjustified assumption -- that the other guys know what they are doing. If I can control the spawn and mitigate damage to the team, but the Fire Controller is immobilizing everything in sight just because he can -- and everything in sight is shooting at us, then I feel a little justified in being frustrated.
|
Had a (former) SG member who just *did not get* that spamming his Frostbite right on top of my Earthquake (or on the mobs that are strung out via a toggle pull, etc.) was not helpful in the least.
If it happened occasionally, fine. Doing it constantly (making mobs that were not a threat suddenly a threat again) - not so good. (And forcing me to focus *more* controls that could have been spread out dealing with ambushes and such - IE, VG on top of the FB'd EQ'd mobs so they're actually held and not a threat again... yeah, many were glad when he *left.*)
Quote:
Ice domination is a bit like a blend of force fields and storm with the tame mashed potato powers and none of the mob knocking about parts. You cannot get as high defense values as Force fields but there are other mitigation powers. Very good and unique single target debuffs. Less direct damage than Storm but no worries about things getting pushed off your ice slick, either.
|
Originally Posted by Orehrepus
I didn't read the all of the posts, just a few of the first ones, but I'm curious, what about Ice/Ice Dom troller?
|
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
Quote:
At least with Earth Control, you get two other AoE ranged control options (Volcanic Gasses and Stalagmites+Stone Cages), plus your ranged location AoE slow (quicksand). Ice Control has only Ice Slick, plus Shiver if you took it for ranged control. So the "immob spammers" hurt Ice Controllers more than Earth Controllers.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/this.
Had a (former) SG member who just *did not get* that spamming his Frostbite right on top of my Earthquake (or on the mobs that are strung out via a toggle pull, etc.) was not helpful in the least. If it happened occasionally, fine. Doing it constantly (making mobs that were not a threat suddenly a threat again) - not so good. (And forcing me to focus *more* controls that could have been spread out dealing with ambushes and such - IE, VG on top of the FB'd EQ'd mobs so they're actually held and not a threat again... yeah, many were glad when he *left.*) |
I found Ice Control to be more melee oriented, using Arctic Air as my main AoE control after using Ice Slick to decrease the initial Alpha. (Similar to Fire Controllers using Flashfire+Fire Cages, then running in with Hot Feet.) To add to this, Glacier, like Cinders, is PB AoE, so you can't use it for ranged control. So negating Ice Slick is almost like negating Flashfire for Fire Controllers -- the rest of the team can take up that slack in many cases, but it certainly reduces the effectiveness of the Ice Controller when someone else spams Immobilize on Ice Slick.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I'm skipping Ice Slick on my Ice/Cold gal for the reasons listed in the thread.
Queen of the Amazons, WP/DB
Sound Judgement Son/Son
Cobra Lily Plant/Kin
Celestia, FF/Psy
Nefertiri, Storm/Elec
Pixie, Ill/Rad
Guardian Server
Quote:
I would NEVER skip Ice Slick! It is the signature power and the primary ranged AoE control for an Ice Controller. I find that it continues to be an effective control even at level 50 on my Ice/Storm. Ice Slick is only a problem when you have another controller on the team who insists on continually using Immobilize. And even then, it adds some Slow and -Recharge. Most of the time, the problem can be resolved with a little communication, unless the other player is a bit of a jerk.|
Originally Posted by CelestiaCoH
I'm skipping Ice Slick on my Ice/Cold gal for the reasons listed in the thread.
|
Would you skip Earthquake on an Earth Controller? Ice Slick is actually slightly more effective than Earthquake.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Would you skip Earthquake on an Earth Controller?
|
I'll go right out and say it. On an Earth troller I think you can skip earthquake and still be very effective. On and ice controller though I don't think you can skip slick and still be very effective. And I think those comments speak volumes about the two sets, well mainly that ice is primarily a one trick pony. The fact that its aoe immob negates its one "good" aoe control power also points to a weakness in the set for me personally. Think about it. earthquake on my earthies is probably a third option...what is slick on ice?
I've tried ice a number of times and it always leaves me...........(get ready for it)..........cold. (And yeah I do know it has great secondary effects I'm just talking about the primaries primary controls)
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Ive been playing for about 15 months and ive only seen a handfull of ice controllers. Is the set not very good or is it just old news or what?
Im in the process of leveling up an ice/cold and i find the combo very fun, not as fun as my Ill/Rad, but still fun.
Sooooo whats the deal?