I16 Mission Architect XP Changes


Aliana Blue

 

Posted

Hi All,

I like ALOT of the changes and new features brought to the game with i16. However I am VERY disappointed that "standard" AE custom critters will now only be giving 75% of the normal rewards. I believe that this cut of 25% rewards will likely stop alot of people from being interested in regular AE story arcs!

Isn't the goal of Paragon Studios regarding AE, to encourage player created story arcs, which people will WANT to play???

I have an AE story that I am trying to get a dev reward for. I put hours of work into it, and I'm concerned that it will be hard to form story arc teams with the current cut to rewards. I know it's always possible to make the custom critters harder, but I see that as likely interfering with the storyline, because teams will be forced to work harder on difficult critters and lose track of the storyline.

I truely believe the AE system has incredible potential, and some of the i16 changes will help the system. Just not the 75% reward for "standard" custom critters!!

I'm thinking a reward of 80% - 90% for "standard" custom critters would be more appropriate. People would still want to play, but not be overly penalized for doing so...

Devs, I really hope you are paying attention to what people are saying here!

Sincerely,
HeroicGamer2

Arc# 306752 - "Insect Invasion: Paragon City" - 3 Mission Arc


 

Posted

Your game content is not fun. Its either stupid hard or stupid easy. AE was a nice way to play a different game. One where I'm not dealing with the "content" but having fun, paying you your sub, and enjoying the aspect of the game I like, power gaming my toons with friends who also like AE.

To those who are excited that AE will no longer be a hub, I hope you enjoy the game, maybe people will stay and go out and "play" with you now. But I doubt it. From what I saw, pre AE this game was dying, and AE brought people back.

Thats my thoughts.


 

Posted

Well, I'm not a farmer, and I make my arcs with an actual eye to balance. Unfortunately, the changes have taken literally ALL the experience out of the arcs.

The arc in my sig, for example, uses ONLY custom characters.

The minions have machine guns. It made no sense that the machine guns should be firing slugs or grenades, so I used the custom powers to remove Slug and replaced it with Full Auto. I gave them Regeneration as a secondary set, because it provided minimal actual defenses (which is in keeping with the fact that they're WW2 soldiers).

They now generate 0xp

Further, because I have to add bosses to the group, I'm using more memory for the WW2 soldier group, making it harder to fit the content in the mission. As it is, I was forced to remove the Russians from the final mission in Berlin (which is historically inaccurate) because I couldn't fit them in there with the memory restrictions.


Now, I'll still play my own arcs because I enjoy them, but I don't expect to play them much, and I don't expect anyone else to play them now.

I was behind REDUCING xp benefits on weaker foes, but this has gone too far. This won't just kill farming, it will kill the AE as a whole.


 

Posted

I think people will become more and more disenchanted with the changes in the game as time goes on.

While the power customization is great (I just wish you could copy colors across costumes for consistency) the changes to AE have ruined it for a very die-hard few who ran story arcs. Likewise, it seems that going back to developer content does not make up much for the changes. It's terrible when there's a drastic change in the influence and experience you get from soloing critters on the sidewalk verses working as a team.

This game should really get back to promoting team work as it's main concern. While auto-sidekicking and so forth in my opinions were steps in the right direction, it seems that there are huge changes not only in the rewards in AE but also in developer content. It also seems as if enemy range is now ridiculous in proportion and you only have to drop a pin to aggro 3 mobs at once. Adding people to the team in mission took off thousands of influence per kill.

Those are just my thoughts for today. Im sure I'll more to say later. The rewards in and out of AE seriously need to be looked at.


 

Posted

Doesn't help that "new dev content" since MA came consists almost entirely of two ginormous sacks of decimal shifted regen.

I better take my arcs out of my sig for a while. The XP is going to be atrocious until my ideas meet dev specifications.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
I better take my arcs out of my sig for a while. The XP is going to be atrocious until my ideas meet dev specifications.
Welcome to the club.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
Doesn't help that "new dev content" since MA came consists almost entirely of two ginormous sacks of decimal shifted regen.

I better take my arcs out of my sig for a while. The XP is going to be atrocious until my ideas meet dev specifications.
"No one will play my arcs because of the loss of XP so I'm going to stop mentioning them." Sounds to me like a slef-fulfilling prophecy. Then again, that just means I have a better chance of people playing mine, so please do!

I know everyone's all doom and gloom about this - and don't get me wrong, I can see why - but I find it's often better to take the wait'n'see approach to things.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5 View Post
"No one will play my arcs because of the loss of XP so I'm going to stop mentioning them." Sounds to me like a slef-fulfilling prophecy. Then again, that just means I have a better chance of people playing mine, so please do!

I know everyone's all doom and gloom about this - and don't get me wrong, I can see why - but I find it's often better to take the wait'n'see approach to things.
Wait’n’see? You can see right now.

I checked an arc I’ve been working on today and was getting about 1/3 xp from the MOBs. It’s a mixture of Dev and Player created critters and groups. I have Minions, Lts and Bosses in the groups. I removed my Player created critters and got 0 xp for the Dev critters still left. I replaced my Custom group of Dev MOBs (The group had Skulls, Hellions, Outcasts, Trolls, randomized.), with a Dev group (Hellions), and the mission went right back up to full xp. My farm that took all of a half hour to build is still full xp.

Something is really broken when a Custom group of Dev Critters is worth 0 xp.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeuraud View Post
Wait’n’see? You can see right now.
I meant wait and see what players do in the long run. That can also be extended to wait and see what the devs do with this in the long run as they've said they're probably not done with all this yet. Nothing is set in stone and there are always at least a few hardcore X players out there who will be doing something (playing ITFs, writing bios for their toons, playing AE arcs, hunting badges, creating toons based on Naruto characters, you name it) no matter what changes are made or what problems exist. So pulling your arcs from your sig is still making it less likely that anyone will play them. (I would also argue that it at leats partially invalidates claiming "no one's playing my arcs now that they changed the XP" in the future. You know, should you feel the urge to do so)

And - off topic here - ya gotta love the rep system! Allowing people to slap you in disagreement without having to face you was the best idea ever.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chantress View Post
I think people will become more and more disenchanted with the changes in the game as time goes on.

While the power customization is great (I just wish you could copy colors across costumes for consistency) the changes to AE have ruined it for a very die-hard few who ran story arcs. Likewise, it seems that going back to developer content does not make up much for the changes. It's terrible when there's a drastic change in the influence and experience you get from soloing critters on the sidewalk verses working as a team.

This game should really get back to promoting team work as it's main concern. While auto-sidekicking and so forth in my opinions were steps in the right direction, it seems that there are huge changes not only in the rewards in AE but also in developer content. It also seems as if enemy range is now ridiculous in proportion and you only have to drop a pin to aggro 3 mobs at once. Adding people to the team in mission took off thousands of influence per kill.

Those are just my thoughts for today. Im sure I'll more to say later. The rewards in and out of AE seriously need to be looked at.
I still run story arcs and enjoy them quite a bit. This change doesn't affect me at all. Maybe it's because I run them with a 50 and never got XP in the first place...


Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]

 

Posted

I don't think I have seen this answered, so if someone could explain it to me, I would appreciate it.

What harm do the "boss farms" cause to the non-farming community? The only thing I can think of is that it throws the economic system out of whack because you have more people looking for the same IO sets. Other than that I am drawing a blank. And, if that is the case, it really isn't an argument that can be made by the people on here crying about the sanctity of canon story arcs. The most vocal people on this thread have said they do play CoX for the stories, not "collecting 50's", so how much stuff costs or how many other "uber characters" are out there shouldn't matter if all they care about is story content).

My question is this. If it doesn't affect you in some tangible way, why should you (or the devs) care if people rip through the XP at unheard of rates? If that is how they choose to enjoy the game, then so be it. I just got my 45 (or 48, I forget) month Vet badge and have tons of alts. Only 1 50. I enjoy seeing what the AT's can do. Am I some horrible monster because I was using the AE farms to see what the potential of an AT was to see if it is one I would want to run through the entire game?

Thanks, and also, try out my story arc. It is full of custom critters (not a farm. Multiple, story-driven missions), but I still think it is pretty well done.


Try my AE Arc: Out of Place, Out of Time ID#304340.
Leave your Arc title in the feedback and I will check yours out as well.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalDominion View Post
I don't think I have seen this answered, so if someone could explain it to me, I would appreciate it.

What harm do the "boss farms" cause to the non-farming community? The only thing I can think of is that it throws the economic system out of whack because you have more people looking for the same IO sets. Other than that I am drawing a blank. And, if that is the case, it really isn't an argument that can be made by the people on here crying about the sanctity of canon story arcs. The most vocal people on this thread have said they do play CoX for the stories, not "collecting 50's", so how much stuff costs or how many other "uber characters" are out there shouldn't matter if all they care about is story content).

My question is this. If it doesn't affect you in some tangible way, why should you (or the devs) care if people rip through the XP at unheard of rates? If that is how they choose to enjoy the game, then so be it. I just got my 45 (or 48, I forget) month Vet badge and have tons of alts. Only 1 50. I enjoy seeing what the AT's can do. Am I some horrible monster because I was using the AE farms to see what the potential of an AT was to see if it is one I would want to run through the entire game?

Thanks, and also, try out my story arc. It is full of custom critters (not a farm. Multiple, story-driven missions), but I still think it is pretty well done.
It also fills the game with completely inexperience 50's who can do a fair bit to mess up a lot of peoples enjoyment when trying to find teams. I can only deal with 'whats an IO' from a 50 so often in a day.


Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
It also fills the game with completely inexperience 50's who can do a fair bit to mess up a lot of peoples enjoyment when trying to find teams. I can only deal with 'whats an IO' from a 50 so often in a day.
I can see that as being annoying. Wouldn't a solution to that be some sort of tag that shows what percentage of total badges the AE badges make up for a player? That would show you the people that spend all their time in AE as opposed to more "accepted" ways of playing. I can see you wanting to avoid a player that is level 50 and only has 3 exploration badges


Try my AE Arc: Out of Place, Out of Time ID#304340.
Leave your Arc title in the feedback and I will check yours out as well.

 

Posted

I feel that the time and energy to certain changes that were recently made, may have better served the community if it was directed towards a more creative outlet for the players outside of A.E.

Now that i16 is out, and everyone is getting into the spirit of things,

May we please talk about some base love?


Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalDominion View Post
I can see that as being annoying. Wouldn't a solution to that be some sort of tag that shows what percentage of total badges the AE badges make up for a player? That would show you the people that spend all their time in AE as opposed to more "accepted" ways of playing. I can see you wanting to avoid a player that is level 50 and only has 3 exploration badges
Eh there's a lot more reasons then the simple 2 already stated.

Hamidon raid the other day. Zone holds a maximum of 50 people, so we try to start the raid and it turns out that half the zone doesn't even know what the hamidon is and the zones minimum level is 45. We couldn't even get our teams back in if they hosp'd cause complete newb 50's were filling up the zone to find out what a 'hamidon raid' was.

There's the issue of having an AE in Atlas which I won't go into.

There's the likelyhood of extremely quick burnout for new players. Or driving them off completely


Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]

 

Posted

The Farms also take away players that might otherwise be teaming. It's been a real pain trying to find non-farm teams and just as hard to recruit players to teams.


The thing is, it seems to me the devs have simply undone many of the actions taken to suppress the farms.

So, first I go to allow bosses in my solo missions, and up my general difficulty to maximum.

Second, I create a mission using custom foes, all of which have all the powers (meaning full xp).

Third, I take out their ranged attacks (all will be meleeists, so they should only have 1 or 2).

Fourth, I hover over them and farm xp.


Short-sighted.


 

Posted

All powersets have a ranged attack on Standard. Removing any standard powers makes a critter worth 0 xp, for precisely the reason you stated.

My problem with AE farms is that everyone just has to make their own, clogging up the search with nearly identical farm missions. Also, lag in Cap. And, the farmers should be out farming regular missions and generating more purple recipes for me to buy.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
The Farms also take away players that might otherwise be teaming. It's been a real pain trying to find non-farm teams and just as hard to recruit players to teams.
Personally, I don't care to team with the sort of players who would rather be farming. They're welcome to it. And when they get bored in a week (because they "beat the game") and move on to the next new shiny, I'll still be here.


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Personally, I don't care to team with the sort of players who would rather be farming. They're welcome to it. And when they get bored in a week (because they "beat the game") and move on to the next new shiny, I'll still be here.
I agree with this line of thinking. The people that are going to want to strictly farm are not going to be the people lining up to join normal groups.

I still have yet to see a reason given other that "I don't like it" or "It slightly inconveniences me"


Try my AE Arc: Out of Place, Out of Time ID#304340.
Leave your Arc title in the feedback and I will check yours out as well.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by megajoule View Post
personally, i don't care to team with the sort of players who would rather be farming. They're welcome to it. And when they get bored in a week (because they "beat the game") and move on to the next new shiny, i'll still be here.
yes.


Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]

 

Posted

Aha, this could explain why my custom soldiers are producing 0xp. So much for being able to customize power choices.

By taking out Slug and replacing it with Full Auto, I've apparently somehow neutered my soldiers, making them too weak to be worth xp?

Do these Devs actually THINK about things before they change them?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Personally, I don't care to team with the sort of players who would rather be farming. They're welcome to it. And when they get bored in a week (because they "beat the game") and move on to the next new shiny, I'll still be here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalDominion View Post
I agree with this line of thinking. The people that are going to want to strictly farm are not going to be the people lining up to join normal groups.
Indeed, and now they can just use the new difficulty system to farm to their hearts content without begging for padders.

Of course that means the powerleveling leeches are screwed, but they don't deserve any sympathy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
Aha, this could explain why my custom soldiers are producing 0xp. So much for being able to customize power choices.

By taking out Slug and replacing it with Full Auto, I've apparently somehow neutered my soldiers, making them too weak to be worth xp?

Do these Devs actually THINK about things before they change them?
Judging from the previous system where you needed to give a critter 18 powers to get full XP (which is impossible with a lot of primary/secondary combinations) I would guess not.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
If you don't care about story then you're in the wrong place to begin with. Bejeweled or an arcade shooter are probably more to your liking.
Actually maybe you should just go read comics if the story is all your interested in. Perhaps you should quit complaining about how everyone plays an MMO and play it the way you want. Then you and others like you might quit screwing up good MMO's for those who play for other reasons than "story".

I don't give two farts about COH's story anymore. It was mildly interesting the first two times I leveled to 50 before ED. I came back because I wanted to try different builds, IOs, and other villain/hero concepts. To me the stories are better done in a comic than in this game.

At this point I'm just being a whiney puss, because that is apparently how you get things done in COX, otherwise this AE "fix" would have never occurred.

AE came out, people flocked back to play it, PlayNC rejoiced as their pocket books got full. Positron had a cow because OMG people might level faster than he thought about in his little game world. A bunch of Role-Players whined because no one wanted to group with them anymore.... boo whoo. Guess what no one wanted to group with you before. So now you get your game back! gratz! Enjoy. I hope PlayNC takes a HUGE hit in subs over this and fires Positron. He can then experience life in a recession and have plenty of time to make up stories of how he used to be a big shot gave dev in a game with super heroes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
It also fills the game with completely inexperience 50's who can do a fair bit to mess up a lot of peoples enjoyment when trying to find teams. I can only deal with 'whats an IO' from a 50 so often in a day.
As opposed to before AE, where you dealt with... anybody want to team? Anybody out there? Is there anyone playing this game?

Ghost Town of Heroes and Villains is what you'll be playing shortly.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
Aha, this could explain why my custom soldiers are producing 0xp. So much for being able to customize power choices.

By taking out Slug and replacing it with Full Auto, I've apparently somehow neutered my soldiers, making them too weak to be worth xp?

Do these Devs actually THINK about things before they change them?
What you are doing by removing a standard power makes your critters more difficult, which should make them worth more XP. What a lot of people want to do is remove redundant powers (like those ranged attacks, if the mob already has a ranged primary) or annoying powers that mob AI makes them spam (like web grenade) to make their characters more thematically appropriate and/or fun to fight, but not necessarily easier.

What the majority of people would do is exactly what you described: exploit the crap out of risk-free mobs for full xp. This is why the devs just implemented a sledgehammer fix. Honestly, I don't know why they bothered giving us the option to remove Standard powers before they implemented a way to make the critters created that way worth fighting. I guess the did what was easiest and least time-consuming, so they could say "hey, look, MA updates this issue, and they're not all nerfs!" and go back to work on the New Shiny.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Well it appears as AE changes ran my friends away. AE may have been a farm and helped people level. Not to mention tickets volume and making money. But they did enjoy it and kept them in the game and NCSoft did make money on those that did use the AE system only. Now it appears that people became dis-interested quickly and are leaving. I will try to stick around but already the grouping power is dying out on Guardian. I loved the color\power changes but the AE changes may seriously put a hurt on NCSoft.

See you all in game. These are just my opinions.