Dual Pistols/Demon Summoning Speculation
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-08-03 09:51 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I, too, would like to see a different kind of Aim, and a Follow-Up or Blinding Feint could be interesting. As for the Pistol set itself, I would love for it to be a medium range set with mostly ST attacks and maybe a cone or two. The 'nuke' needs to be like Archery or AR where it can be used at least semi-regularly in an attack chain.
As for the Summoning set, it doesn't interest me...unless we can summon all those CoT Cold Demons. 
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Someone asked about whips at the Comic-Con panel...and Posi (if I remember correctly) said something to the effect of "If you like whips, you'll like the demon summoning powerset."
So yeah, between BABs and Posi that seems to be the only confirmed bit about demon summoning so far 
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Aw man, that is so awesome. I've been dieing to have a whip for so long now. I just hope there's also a chain whip to choose from in the costum editor.
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Originally Posted by Yoster
Someone asked about whips at the Comic-Con panel...and Posi (if I remember correctly) said something to the effect of "If you like whips, you'll like the demon summoning powerset."
So yeah, between BABs and Posi that seems to be the only confirmed bit about demon summoning so far |
I'd like to see a passive version of Aim for Dual Pistols.
Call it "Smartlink", "Gunlink" or something in that vein.
I also love the idea of it being single target focused, with one ranged cone, and one PBAOE.
The PBAOE should be the nuke, but much like Rain of Arrows or Full Auto. Useable often without a full end drop.
That's what I would like to see anyways.
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I'd like to see Dual Pistols maybe get the target based multi-ignite power that you see with Longbow Flamethrowers and the Assault Bot. It'd be a little trickier to use than some AoEs, and would probably have to be put in place of a nuke, but could bring something a little bit new, different, and fun to strategize with.
Just a quick thought - I will post more after I get a chance to look at this... For Dual Pistols, I would like to see the animation for the Dual Pistols PBAoE attck being the arms extended to the sides and the character goes into a spinning crouch.....
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I would like to see a crashless nuke as well. I also love the idea of spinning with guns outstretched in opposite directions as a PBAOE, kind of like Deadpool in the X-Men Legends/Marvel Ultimate Alliance franchise.
I hope that the set keeps the knockdown that Masterminds get, and that it remains knockdown. I think it's a big appeal of the set.
I would imagine the pistol set will be a cross between the Gunslinger attacks and AR set. As for Pistol melee...the closest I would think would be a butt stroke.
Demon Summoning sounds cool and I might actually roll a MM. Whips? Sounds sweet!
Whips are definitely in. BaB on Twitter:
'Testing whip animations in game, considering making that the method for upgrading demonic henchmen as well. *CRACK* Be stronger!!'
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Is BaB's on Twitter? I'm following the Community reps, but I'd love to follow any of the other Dev team.... do you know of any names?
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Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
Whips are definitely in. BaB on Twitter:
'Testing whip animations in game, considering making that the method for upgrading demonic henchmen as well. *CRACK* Be stronger!!' |
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Sure!|
Originally Posted by Deceivius
Is BaB's on Twitter? I'm following the Community reps, but I'd love to follow any of the other Dev team.... do you know of any names?
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I would love to see whips in a new set bot not a MM set.
Why you may ask?
Well we get to trade in petless pistol MM's since there is a new pistol set for you guessed it petless whip MM's
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Whips = teh sexay.
And I agree that pistols should be a scrapper set. Close range poistols make more sense anyway. However, with so much power prolif and the recent addition to Scrapper options I wonder if they're going to try to "be fair" and give this set to another AT.
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I'd like to see the pistols get a toggle damage power as there teir 9 rather than a traditional nuke (or perhaps as a teir 8). It would have about the same end drain and telekinesis. The way I would like it work is for it to have the guns shooting continueously until your end runs out or you detoggle it. That may or may not stop you from using other powers while it is on.
Also, pistols "need" to not root. If I have to stop moving completely in order to shoot a pistol, however realistic is may be, it will still make it less impressive.
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There better be a Dual Pistols secondary.. I want a complete set. I dont want to be Dual Pistols/Devices or Dual Pistols/Energy
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I agree with this. Pistols should have less range, but no rooting mechanic. I also agree that Pistols should have a nuke that is different and/or at least is not Endurance Draining. |
Originally Posted by Combat
Also, pistols "need" to not root. If I have to stop moving completely in order to shoot a pistol, however realistic is may be, it will still make it less impressive.
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To be silly, does anyone remember "Death Blossom" from the Last Star Fighter? That would be cool in a pistol sorta way.
I'm thinking a Succubus would be a cool Tier 3 pet for Demon Summoning.
Not sure how I feel about Dual Pistols, since I tend to not like weapon based sets too much(not because of them being weapon based, I just can't get into playing as one). But I agree that it's Nuke shouldn't have an End crash like Full Auto and Rain of Arrows.
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It would be very interesting to have a pistol melee secondary set. Very interesting. I see no reason why this shouldnt be possible since the precedent has already been set with Archery.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
There better be a Dual Pistols secondary.. I want a complete set. I dont want to be Dual Pistols/Devices or Dual Pistols/Energy
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As long as its more Gunkata than Thug MM rip-off animations, ill be happy...
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I think that we may be disapointed this time around, but there's certainly some scope for Pistol Melee as a Blaster secondary, with powers such as Pistol Whip and Point Blank Shot.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
There better be a Dual Pistols secondary.. I want a complete set. I dont want to be Dual Pistols/Devices or Dual Pistols/Energy
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What? Archery cannot be used in Melee. Are you talking about Trick Arrow? That's not a Blaster Secondary, it's a Buff/Debuff set. It doesn't deal damage, (well, not primarily) and it isn't melee.|
Originally Posted by Scorpious_EU
It would be very interesting to have a pistol melee secondary set. Very interesting. I see no reason why this shouldnt be possible since the precedent has already been set with Archery.
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| As long as its more Gunkata than Thug MM rip-off animations, ill be happy... |
The problem with pairing any Blaster Primary with a weapon using Secondary is that unlike Dominators, you can't be assured the same weapon will be used in both cases. If you had, say, Archery/Dual Pistols then you would draw the bow to shoot arrows, and then draw the pistols to do your Gunkata. Unless there was a generic Weapon Manipulation in which you used whatever weapon, bow, machine gun, or pistols, to hit your foe over the head with it. But making that work with the same animation would be impossible. You would reverse the machine gun to use its butt end, slap with the pistols, and probably strike directly with the handle of the bow.
Even a similar but related weapon would introduce redraw problems, like Archery/Sword. Kicking attacks are really the only thing that would be globally accessable to all three weapon types.
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Yes i mean TA.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
What? Archery cannot be used in Melee. Are you talking about Trick Arrow? That's not a Blaster Secondary, it's a Buff/Debuff set. It doesn't deal damage, (well, not primarily) and it isn't melee.
What I would like to see as a secondary to match with Dual Pistols is Martial Arts. A few martial arts attacks, and then the rest buffs like Energy Manipulation. Then you use your guns at range, and when foes get in melee, you kick them. It could be used with Archery as well. The problem with pairing any Blaster Primary with a weapon using Secondary is that unlike Dominators, you can't be assured the same weapon will be used in both cases. If you had, say, Archery/Dual Pistols then you would draw the bow to shoot arrows, and then draw the pistols to do your Gunkata. Unless there was a generic Weapon Manipulation in which you used whatever weapon, bow, machine gun, or pistols, to hit your foe over the head with it. But making that work with the same animation would be impossible. You would reverse the machine gun to use its butt end, slap with the pistols, and probably strike directly with the handle of the bow. Even a similar but related weapon would introduce redraw problems, like Archery/Sword. Kicking attacks are really the only thing that would be globally accessable to all three weapon types. |
Why TA? Simple -we already have an example of 2 entirely different sets which can use the same drawn weapon and function as a combination. So in short, you can have a pistol blast set and a pistol assault secondary which functions just liek all other blaster secondaries. Its really not that far of a stretch to see how that works, regardless of the actual function of TA...
I think the Dual Pistols would work better as a scrapper set rather than blasters in terms of combining it with the secondaries, but it would be good to see the set ported over to both.
Here's hoping however they dont re-use the thugs pistols animations, we need something a bit more "fluid" in approach more in line with dual blades for speed.
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Well, logically speaking then it should be possible to use the pistols to deliver gas grenades and traps, so you'll have another set like Trick Arrow for both Corruptors and Defenders. But just because you have Trick Arrow, that doesn't mean there's a Blaster Secondary that uses a bow. There isn't a Controller Primary that uses a bow. Saying that Dual Pistols should have a Blaster Secondary because Archery has a counterpart for some other AT seems like a non sequitor. |
Originally Posted by Scorpious_EU
Yes i mean TA.
Why TA? Simple -we already have an example of 2 entirely different sets which can use the same drawn weapon and function as a combination. So in short, you can have a pistol blast set and a pistol assault secondary which functions just liek all other blaster secondaries. Its really not that far of a stretch to see how that works, regardless of the actual function of TA... |
Note also that this is unique to Archery/TA, AR/Traps doesn't fire grenades from the rifle, and neither does AR/Devices. The Assault Rifle/Trick Arrow should now even be possible, in fact, for both Defenders and Corruptors in I16, and so I suspect we'll start seeing this redraw problem where we didn't before. (Masterminds had it, though, with Mercs/TA and Bots/TA) In fact, it's a problem that there's no Blaster Secondary that doesn't require you to redraw your weapon, you don't have to draw a grenade or an Energy Punch to throw it (well, technically you do, but it takes only a split second) but you do put up your weapon when you do.
If you want to make it up to the player to choose a Secondary that matches his Primary, then there should be a match for every weapon. There should be an Archery Secondary, an Assault Rifle Secondary, and a Dual Pistols Secondary. And there should be an Assault Rifle Buff/Debuff set, and a Dual Pistols Buff/Debuff set as well. Not to mention that Controllers need a Control set that uses the Trick Arrow bow as its launcher. Masterminds are fine, they've got Ninjas.
I suppose the alternative is that if you have an Assault Rifle, then Traps or Devices uses it. But that's basing the animation on another power set, which I'm guessing at this time is impossible. Or at least, altering it based on if you have a weapon out. Shield is able to change the animation of the melee weapon attacks, so some mechanism must be in place to do that. But that doesn't really help Pistols, they don't really have an option to launch grenades.
Well with GR around the corner possibly sometime in November (for beta, based on the Loyalty rewards), I figured we need a thread to speculate on what the new sets might entail.
The trend for the recent additions has been toward new ideas. Thugs gave us pets with stacking buffs that benefit other pets of the same type. Dual Blades gave us the combo system. And Shields gave us Scrappers/Brutes who can buff teammates. I expect both Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning to offer something new to the game. As such, here are my thoughts on each set.
Demon Summoning will probably be a fire-based set. BABs said something about a fire whip, possibly jokingly, but if they intend to avoid the predictable/obvious Flares/Fire Blast/Fireball setup, a whip would be really incredibly cool. I believe the tech exists, or could be based on the Circle demons that flick tongues. As for what the pets could possibly do, I can't say I know what role they might fill. We already have roles for high damage dealing, high tanking, and mezzing. Damage would be the obvious choice, but they could still be a RES/heal based group who could be good at taking damage as well. Would be nice to have a buffing-style pet who throws around things like Forge.
Dual Pistols I think is their best chance to do something different. Some people speculate that it may be a ranged combo set. Personally I'm hoping that due to all the cries for Pistol Melee, they design it like a Scrapper set. By which I mean instead of the usual formula of 2 full range attacks, 1 half range attack, some AoEs and a nuke, they give it 4-5 single target attacks. Including possibly extreme or superior damage single target attacks. That way, while not actually a Scrapper set, it'd still play like a Scrapper in some ways. I'm also hoping for something new for Aim. I'd like to see a Follow-up style attack rather than just Aim, meaning a lower damage buff that can be used for a steady damage boost.
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