better yet, if you die in a mission a random enhancement gets dropped by 1 level. any enhancement that hits 0 is gone for good.
now lets see what fully purpled toon is willing to rush in regardless of the odds 
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better yet, if you die in a mission a random enhancement gets dropped by 1 level. any enhancement that hits 0 is gone for good.
now lets see what fully purpled toon is willing to rush in regardless of the odds
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Purples are fixed at one level so wouldnt affect us in any way whatsoever 
Anyway im all for bringing back the good old debt!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Me too.. as it is now there is no penalty for dying anymore. And no drawback to levelling.
While all other features enhance levelling. A lvl 50 is now nothing special. It is nothing to look up too.
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better yet, if you die in a mission a random enhancement gets dropped by 1 level. any enhancement that hits 0 is gone for good.
now lets see what fully purpled toon is willing to rush in regardless of the odds
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Purples are fixed at one level so wouldnt affect us in any way whatsoever
Anyway im all for bringing back the good old debt!
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curses! foiled again! I would have gotten away with it if it werent for those meddling toons.....
but yes, debt is not something to be feared anymore. I miss the fear. Its still there to a certain degree as my squishy blaster runs ina panic to escape the heavy melee mobs that regularly crush him but then he drops and the debt is paid off in less than one encounter....
Older MMOs had looting. you had to get back to your corpse before someone else looted it. That was a great incentive not to die (or at the least have a few mates you trusted laong with you). I think there should be a "hardcore" option in CoX where being defeated has more of an effect on you:
loss of inf (hey, you gain it for winning, shouldnt you
lose it for failing?),
loss of inf for failing missions,
deletion of random salvage piece,
deletion of random recipe
reduction in effectiveness of random enhancement.
The player signs up to what effects they are willing to suffer. in return they gain more inf / gain slightly better rewards etc. (shiney badges anyone? Hardcore Hero or Victorious Villain.... )
make it optional so it doesnt take away from the fun of those that dont want it. But in any case, I do agree that, at the least the punishing debt rules should be brought back. make survival something to be happy about and not just a bragging right.
I could see loss of inf working and it makes a kind of in game world sense after all who gonna fear a Hero/Villain that keeps getting there bum handed to them.
don't see the point of the deletion of a random piece of salvage or a recipe its not really a punishment and i can imagine all the shouts when some one just got a purple and then dies. Maybe with modification it could be used for PvP to represent you steeling stuff from your defeated enemy but they would need to implement some kind of receipt storage facility or any one with a good recipe wouldn't enter PvP (yes i know PvPs rather dead the now)
I'm against the reduction of a random enhancement as there are just some ATs that die more than others making them more likely to die the next time round just seems unfair.
I agree that things have gone too far with debt but make the penalties too harsh and everybody will be fighting blues and greens all day. Even more grind...
Bring back I3 debt, there is no point in it now may as well remove it from the game
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I agree that things have gone too far with debt but make the penalties too harsh and everybody will be fighting blues and greens all day. Even more grind...
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agreed its a fine balencing act in my veiw it should be balanced around fighting at dificulty 1 at that level you should get enuff debt to discourage dieing but not so much that its going to discourage you from fighting at that level. the amount of debt you get should also probably increase as your mission difficulty increases so if you've got the difficulty all the way up for maximum XP you should also have the chance of getting maximum debt.
It also mite help discourage those PUG teams that think its a great idea to whack the dificulty all the way up and then die at every spawn.
ah but thats why I said "make it optional".
yes, make xp debt worse for everyone but also make an opt-in system where players suffer worse penalties for defeats and as is only fair, also gain better reward for the risk.
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ah but thats why I said "make it optional".
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If you make it optional, who would opt in? There's no benifit to opting in, so why would you? Either make it so you got no choice or make some pretty big incentive for opting in.
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ah but thats why I said "make it optional".
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If you make it optional, who would opt in? There's no benifit to opting in, so why would you? Either make it so you got no choice or make some pretty big incentive for opting in.
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Please remember to read the whole post.
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yes, make xp debt worse for everyone but also make an opt-in system where players suffer worse penalties for defeats and as is only fair, also gain better reward for the risk.
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and in an earlier post made my the same person:
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in return they gain more inf / gain slightly better rewards etc. (shiney badges anyone? Hardcore Hero or Victorious Villain.... )
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Onto my personal opinion on this matter, my highest level character is currently Level 30, so I don't know exactly how high debt rises when you say reach Level 50, but at the moment, when I die I get about 4000 XP Debt, and thus I would be very happy to have it doubled. 4000 debt is like 4-6 enemies. Which is ridiculously low.
On my character, I'm not sure whether it's because I'm a bad player, or whether I've got a bad build, but I die a lot on Villainous, which I've never rose above solo. Less than I used to, but I still die quite a bit, and I rely on Insps to survive.
Even though this is true, I'd be happy to double the xp debt. Remove patrol xp as well, as it does make xp debt pretty much pointless. If you get debt you just log out and play an alt for a bit then log back in and see your debt disappear. On an inf loss...I don't know. The best MMO I ever played had a non-lootable corpse system, as well as xp debt called vitae, where when you died you lost a certain percentage of your cash, and a selection of your items, but you could get it back by going to your corpse withina specified time based on your level and looting it, collecting the things you lost. Obviously as this is not an inventory-based game I don't know exactly how it would work, but I thought it was a very appropriate system for that game.
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ah but thats why I said "make it optional".
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If you make it optional, who would opt in? There's no benifit to opting in, so why would you? Either make it so you got no choice or make some pretty big incentive for opting in.
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second sentence of the post:
" make an opt-in system where players suffer worse penalties for defeats and as is only fair, also gain better reward for the risk. "
by better reward I would imagine one or more of:
increase in % of getting a drop from a defeated mob
increase in inf award for successful mission completion
+1 or 2 merits earned per arc completed
badgey goodness. For example: level marker badges could be different depending on the level of options you have selected.
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In essence it would be like playing the game with the challenges option for TFs always on.
these are only suggestions and I'm not sure if anything other than personal gratification would encourage players to opt in to the system without it being too unbalancing. but, well, the forum section is called suggestions
Of course, most farmers select activities where there is no realistic risk of being defeated in the first place (because being defeated reduces your farming rate), so allowing players to get higher reward rates by turning up their defeat penalties would basically give farmers a free boost to their farming rates
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Well, I DO NOT miss the "good old times" when people WHINED about getting debt, quit team without good byes mid-TFs etc.
As it is now, they might as well remove it. Removing it, however removes all penalties for deaths and stupid game-play. Debt should hurt, but not break the game as it sometimes did in the ol' days. I say: Remove the 3x debt limit and up the debt to full debt in-missions, and finally up debt in general by a factor of 1.5 and for the love of god, make patrol XP build up much slower or just get rid of it.
We don't really need to level up faster, do we? Slower patrol XP would benefit altoholics, so at least making it build up slower would be good.
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i think it should
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Ah yes, I think I spot the flaw in your logic.
No need to fix what is not broken. Debt is WAI.
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ah but thats why I said "make it optional".
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If you make it optional, who would opt in? There's no benifit to opting in, so why would you? Either make it so you got no choice or make some pretty big incentive for opting in.
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The same reason why people choose not to earn xp, to experience specific content. Or because some people want to get debt badges or something.
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@Lyrik
make the XP gain 3x better and we MIGHT talk about an increase of debt.
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If you make it optional, who would opt in? There's no benifit to opting in, so why would you? Either make it so you got no choice or make some pretty big incentive for opting in.
[/ QUOTE ]High Pain Threshold (10% higher max HP for villains). I am getting a little sick of intentionally getting my toons killed because it takes much longer to amass 1.2 million debt than it takes to get to level 50.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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make the XP gain 3x better and we MIGHT talk about an increase of debt.
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How about stop trying to make the game mind-numbingly pointless?
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Stuff
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i think it should
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Ah yes, I think I spot the flaw in your logic.
No need to fix what is not broken. Debt is WAI.
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^ This
If you want to be macho, go play...Ah, what was it...Tenshu Assassins? Cant remember now, but it was a game where even Normal difficulty beat you up, mauled you and left your bleeding, shattered form to drown in a pool of its own blood.
And, on harder...
WAI. If you want to not out-level stuff, use the 'No XP button'.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
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I need the debt badges. So yes. Bring back the debt.
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Debt is WAI.
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It may be working as intended but I think that most people would agree that what's intended ain't working! Debt is so low as to be pointless. The only penalty for getting things hopelessly wrong and dying every five minutes is that the mission takes slightly longer to complete.
I'm usually not one to ask for things to be made more difficult - I'm definately not what you'd call a hardcore gamer and I like to take things easy but the risk-reward ratio is way out of whack in this game - it just seems like a lvl 1-50 risk free grind these days.
It could be worse... Anyone want to try out the death penalty from FFXI? I'd laugh my butt off if all the farmers ended up delevelling back to level 1! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
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The thing is i don't think debt is working as intended and to the best of my knowledge the dev's have never made comment on weather it is or not.
Debt as it stands is meaningless and is no form of punishment or deterrent I'm not suggesting that it should be uped to silly levels but upping it to the point where it at least makes you think before charging into that purple spawn with only a sliver of health
Pretty simple really i think over the years debt has become broken.
The amount of debt rewarded now bares no resemblance to what i think it should, what with patrol XP and the smoothing of the XP curve debt is now next to nonexistent. so i suggest the following fixes.
<ul type="square">[*] equalise debt no more half debt for deaths in missions bring mission debt back up to the same as outdoor debt.
[*] double the current debt awarded on death[/list]