Fix Debt

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The thing is i don't think debt is working as intended and to the best of my knowledge the dev's have never made comment on weather it is or not.

Debt as it stands is meaningless and is no form of punishment or deterrent I'm not suggesting that it should be uped to silly levels but upping it to the point where it at least makes you think before charging into that purple spawn with only a sliver of health

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If you do that anyway atm, you will quickly find it becomes a lonely game, as most decent teams get a bit sick of players like that, especially if they pull huge mobs with them.

Debt, before the Devs actually changed it, was so much so that it could be crippling. Certain missions are such that you WILL die on them. When playing solo, especially, debt was particularly unpleasant for the likes of Tankers and Blasters, at least I found it that way. My AR/ICe blaster languished at lvl 14 for a long, long time, because of the old debt system, whereby a particularly bad string of missions left him in debtsville.

Sure, a level 10 start point is enough to not put off the new players straight away, but making debt worse again could mean that people get to 14-15, and then find themselves bogged down in debt. And what about the level 30 range? While the XP smoothing did make it a bit less of a nightmare, its still the nasty patch. Ramp up the debt and you will find a lot of toons get abandoned at the 30 mark.

(Allergy Warning: The above Post may contain opinion)

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Making a lvl 50 of that AT finally something special again... and earned...

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Debt, before the Devs actually changed it, was so much so that it could be crippling. Certain missions are such that you WILL die on them. When playing solo, especially, debt was particularly unpleasant for the likes of Tankers and Blasters, at least I found it that way. My AR/ICe blaster languished at lvl 14 for a long, long time, because of the old debt system, whereby a particularly bad string of missions left him in debtsville.


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Sorry, but... hogwash!

My first character, an energy blaster, hit level 50 in June 2005; WAY before debt got nerfed. He didn't get his first debt badge until the mid 40's, and STILL only has one debt badge.

Blasters in permadebt only happened because people played them as if they were invulnerable. You have range for a REASON! Stay out of melee!

I can actually see where your coming from my first main was a tank and the debt could become a real problem but its went from one extreme (to much debt) to the other (not enuff debt) and i think that some kind of middle ground should be found.

plus if the debt rewarded was returned to its old levels it would have less of a effect now than it did before thanks to the limit on the amount of debt you can acquire now being lower and patrol XP acting as a kind of debt buffer.

Would that level be to high i cant tell but as i said in my original post i believe debt should be increased and at the very least the amount of debt gained inside and outside of a mission should be equalised.

but just to be clear i have no desire to see debt return to teh point where you could be in debt for several levels.

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but just to be clear i have no desire to see debt return to teh point where you could be in debt for several levels.

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If you were in debt for several levels in those days, the problem wasn't with the debt levels, but with how you were playing your character... The devs only nerfed it because suicidal players kept moaning about it.

My PB still doesn't have her first debt badge... And I've been playing her since June 2005.

Why not simply add a duration death penalty effect?

For example a stackable 10% reduction in HP and Recharge for 1 hour of Game Time.

Play like a reckless noob and you get nerfed for an hour. Continue to play like a reckless noob and we nerf you into oblivion!

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Why not simply add a duration death penalty effect?

For example a stackable 10% reduction in HP and Recharge for 1 hour of Game Time.

Play like a reckless noob and you get nerfed for an hour. Continue to play like a reckless noob and we nerf you into oblivion!

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Something like that is a better idea IMO. Get right of XP debt completely and implement a mid-duration debuff instead. An hour is too long though. I think a 10 minute 25% debuff to damage and HP is sufficient. Not sure about stackable though...

Age of Conan gives a stackable penalty to your to hit and to your damage for 30 minutes. Although they do leave the headstone marker when you die and when you get back there, you can activate the headstone and get rid of one penalty.

Not an hour. Jesus h christ. lol

I agree with the increase in debt as mentioned badges are incredibly hard to accumulate now. THat and i haven't noticed any debt since they changed it mainly because its gone the next mob... or is sucked up by patrol xp.

My suggestion is they change patrol xp not to exist, but only cancel out debt when its present (and you log out). That way you can choose to work it off, and you'll see it there. But yea, fix debt please. or just remove it because it might as well be gone in the current state.

Not keen on stackable debuffs as a defeat penalty to be honest. If a mission is tough enough to kill your toon, half a dozen stacked debuffs will make it all but impossible.

IMO debuffs of any kind would be bad as if what your facing can kill you at full hp/regen/damage/whatever it gonna be able to kill you if your suffering a 10% debuff.

for things like TF (and even standard missions to a degree) it can already be frustrating when get to a point where for whatever reason you have a team wipe or 2 now imagine that with each team wipe your being debuffed.

Ah, but a modest debuff, even a 25% one, can be easily overcome by popping a few insps. It still makes it a hindrance, but one that's overcomable.

There IS precedent in CoH for this idea... That lab map with the destroyable buff/debuff stations.

*sigh*

*sighs more*

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but just to be clear i have no desire to see debt return to teh point where you could be in debt for several levels.

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If you were in debt for several levels in those days, the problem wasn't with the debt levels, but with how you were playing your character... The devs only nerfed it because suicidal players kept moaning about it.

My PB still doesn't have her first debt badge... And I've been playing her since June 2005.

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THIS is the absolute truth...

When you die, reduce XP earnt to 25% for the next five minutes. If you die again in that period, add five more minutes, up to a maximum of 15. To not make some players focus overmuch on the penalty, increase the drop rate of inspirations by 50 - 100% while the XP penalty is in effect[1].

Patrol XP can work by giving you "free minutes" that you don't have to pay for: if you have 8 free minutes and die once, you're down to 3 free minutes. If you die again, you've got no more free minutes and have to play for two minutes with reduced XP.

The "debt clock" for a character does not run if you're logged in on another character, and runs at 1/10th speed if you're logged off entirely. (So all accrued "debt time" is gone by tomorrow.)

[1] This one is probably difficult to implement in the current game. I don't think the system allows for individual drop rates.

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Ah, but a modest debuff, even a 25% one, can be easily overcome by popping a few insps. It still makes it a hindrance, but one that's overcomable.

There IS precedent in CoH for this idea... That lab map with the destroyable buff/debuff stations.


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except if its been a hard fight there's a good chance you have no insps i know personally the first thing i do if the fight looks like it mite go south is start popping insps and I'm sure others do the same.

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but just to be clear i have no desire to see debt return to teh point where you could be in debt for several levels.

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If you were in debt for several levels in those days, the problem wasn't with the debt levels, but with how you were playing your character... The devs only nerfed it because suicidal players kept moaning about it.

My PB still doesn't have her first debt badge... And I've been playing her since June 2005.

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THIS is the absolute truth...

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I disagree with the pair of you it was rather easy to get into a lot of debt in the old days and i was a tank so my ability to avoid or withdraw from combat were rather limited when tanking for a team.

25% would be too much. However an ability penalty is better than ramping debt back up.
If a fight is as hard as you argue, then the question has to be asked: Why did you attempt it without help in the first place? It's easy to gauge the abilities of an AV and compare strength before the first attack is thrown. This all goes back to thinking before you charge.

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I disagree with the pair of you it was rather easy to get into a lot of debt in the old days and i was a tank so my ability to avoid or withdraw from combat were rather limited when tanking for a team.

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My debt badge-less triform PB disagree's with you. It's all about playstyle. If a tanker is getting smeared then he either took on more than his defenses could handle, or his team aren't doing their jobs.

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but just to be clear i have no desire to see debt return to teh point where you could be in debt for several levels.

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If you were in debt for several levels in those days, the problem wasn't with the debt levels, but with how you were playing your character... The devs only nerfed it because suicidal players kept moaning about it.

My PB still doesn't have her first debt badge... And I've been playing her since June 2005.

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THIS is the absolute truth...

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I disagree with the pair of you it was rather easy to get into a lot of debt in the old days and i was a tank so my ability to avoid or withdraw from combat were rather limited when tanking for a team.

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Oh.. I got a lot of debt back in the early levels ... But I learned to play better to my AT in time. You have to figure out how an AT is meant to be played and suddenly you die a lot less often. Unless you have a team of suicidal players. Nothing can protect you from that.

Debt , yes bring it back to mean something, no one fears it any more , and should never have feared it to start with anyhow :P It was good for making you a more carefull player.

I miss proper debt

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I disagree with the pair of you it was rather easy to get into a lot of debt in the old days and i was a tank so my ability to avoid or withdraw from combat were rather limited when tanking for a team.

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My debt badge-less triform PB disagree's with you. It's all about playstyle. If a tanker is getting smeared then he either took on more than his defenses could handle, or his team aren't doing their jobs.

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Most Tank deaths I have seen since I started playing this game were the result of two factors:
1) The Tank getting overconfident/sloppy and taking on more than its primary could handle.
2) The rest of the team not supporting the Tank properly. (Too many times I've seen defenders blasting away when they should have been watching over their team's buffs)

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It was good for making you a more carefull player.

[/ QUOTE ]Nah, that was running the Hollows with just sprint.

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You have to figure out how an AT is meant to be played and suddenly you die a lot less often. Nothing can protect you from that.

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Try the Quit Team button.

To paraphrase myself last time I was on such a team...


"I have better things to do than die for you idiots."

> You have quit your team.