MA farming: The way to kill an MMO
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2009-05-01 12:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Diminishing returns would be a great way to ease some of the farming issues. In fact I'd be happy with them getting rid of Xp from MA missions entirely. If you wanna level you gotta play either the devs choice and deal with diminishing returns (reward folks who make great content, plus give a breath of fresh air to the current slew of missions in the main game) OR play the game through normally.
I dont like the idea of punishing everyone to deal with the few who abuse the system so increased handicap based on overuse would work wonders in my view. 
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
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Here's a thought - the MA is only available, like Ourobouros, to lvl 25s plus. You need to do the tutorial before you can touch the system.
As it is, new players even if they're not farming/powerlevelling are still seeing a lot of the content for 'later on' (i.e. mobs that appear after certain levels etc). So put a level cap on the MA, that'd be my solution.
Oh and remove it from Kings, Mercy, Atlas and Galaxy. Any other zones? Oh yes, Port Oakes.
Yes, it removes early level heroes/villains from enjoying different content to the starting stuff. Heck, you never know, it might encourage developers to make some more new content for those levels to alleviate the boredom?
*rolls on floor, laughing, clutching stomach*
I know, it's sad to laugh at your own jokes, but...
edit Something has just struck me - when people say 'Why doesit bother you? Let people play how they want to' it always strikes me that plenty of people opposed to powerlevelling en masse as we have seen with the MA come up with lots of reasons for the against, whereas the same argument (with little or no explanation) is touted by those 'defending' the right to do it.
To quote Skunk Anansie (trust me, never a sentence I thought I'd type...): Just because it feels good doesn't make it right...
So, I throw the gauntlet down for those who are just lurking and chucking in the 'let people play how they want to' argument to come up with something that has a little more backbone and actually means something.
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An amendum to this would be to make the Dev's Choice/ Hall of Fame available to those under 25 so that they can still team and try out the MA. Might even try and promote creativity on the MA a bit too making becoming a devs choice or Hall of famer mean something worth attaining and not necessitate the removal of the building from any zone they are currently in.
Here's a radical thought.
Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?
This new content could even take place outwith the AE building - in the real CoX universe - and be blalanced to a degree where it can't be easily farmed.
Another thought ... This new dev created content could even provide normal drops/rewards, rather than tickets?
Maybe this new dev content could even perhaps tie into the existing CoX storyline, and maybe, even perhaps, possibly use some zones that are light in content right now.
Maybe even zones like Boomtown, DA, Eden, Perez, Terra Volta, etc.
Yeah .. I know. Crazy radical idea. It'll never work in a million years 
I must be insane to have even thought of it.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a radical thought.
Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?
This new content could even take place outwith the AE building - in the real CoX universe - and be blalanced to a degree where it can't be easily farmed.
Another thought ... This new dev created content could even provide normal drops/rewards, rather than tickets?
Maybe this new dev content could even perhaps tie into the existing CoX storyline, and maybe, even perhaps, possibly use some zones that are light in content right now.
Maybe even zones like Boomtown, DA, Eden, Perez, Terra Volta, etc.
Yeah .. I know. Crazy radical idea. It'll never work in a million years
I must be insane to have even thought of it.
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A post on the forums made me smile with genuine humour!
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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To quote Skunk Anansie (trust me, never a sentence I thought I'd type...): Just because it feels good doesn't make it right...
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But a clear counter is that it's their money, they can obviously go farm and become utterly useless, like haggis in a sheep, if they want to. We can't very well, and I know they are strong arguments and I agree with them however, justify ourselves telling them what not to do since in regards again it is their money.
Fury
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Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?
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To the best of my knowledge, the devs have never said that they won't be doing this.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?
[/ QUOTE ]
To the best of my knowledge, the devs have never said that they won't be doing this.
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Although Posi's "we'll do TF's, you lot do missions!" statement was a tad worrying.
I'm going to assume that he hadn't yet had his morning coffee when he said it to us.
(The world's always better when you stick your fingers in your ears and stop listening to people)
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Here's a thought - the MA is only available, like Ourobouros, to lvl 25s plus. You need to do the tutorial before you can touch the system.
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Personally I think level 25 is a bit high in terms of level restriction, I think level 12-15 would be better if a restriction would be set.
In early teen levels leveling is still reasonably fast, there has been time to experience 1-2 mayhem/safeguards and visited at least 2-3 zones. DOs has been introduced, inventions has been introduced.
Enough time for people to pick up much of the basics, but not so much time that they might feel they have to struggle too long to get there if they are interested in MA. Besides, with Ouroborous already at 25 it would be better to put it at a different level range anyway.
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Yes, it removes early level heroes/villains from enjoying different content to the starting stuff. Heck, you never know, it might encourage developers to make some more new content for those levels to alleviate the boredom?
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I liked that joke
[url="http://adingworld.wordpress.com/mission-architect-story-arcs/"][b]My Story arcs[/b][/url]: [i]The Siren Supremes[/i] ([b]1143[/b]), [i]The Missing Geneticist[/i] ([b]2542[/b]), [i]Elemental Jones[/i] ([b]263512[/b]), [i]The Soul Hunter[/i] ([b]294431[/b]), [i]Heart of Steel[/i] ([b]407104[/b]), [i]Project Serpens[/i] ([b]434082[/b])
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Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?
[/ QUOTE ]
To the best of my knowledge, the devs have never said that they won't be doing this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although Posi's "we'll do TF's, you lot do missions!" statement was a tad worrying.
I'm going to assume that he hadn't yet had his morning coffee when he said it to us.
(The world's always better when you stick your fingers in your ears and stop listening to people)
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Indeed.
That comment by Posi - which may have been offhand and inaccurate - did worry me as well.
With the advent of the MA design tool the devs should easily be able to turn out new contacts, arcs/missions and TF's pretty quickly - without spending hours crunching numbers on Excel.
Now I'm sure that some the player created MA content is actually quite good, well written and made with the best intentions.
The problem for me is that I'm a storyline person. If it isn't dev created - it isn't part of the CoX universe.
They may well sanction some player created content and bring it into CoX reality at some point. I'll reserve judgement on that for when/if it happens.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
Farming aside, for purely thematic reasons I'd like to see MA missions give no inf and reduced XP (the "but it's not real" angle.) Then I'd like to see tickets rejigged somewhat with a few more unlockables added -- a fourth AE slot, the ability to give temporary powers to custom mobs, a few costume pieces, some time-limited stuff (24 hours access to emotes or powers from the booster packs, 24 hours of bolding or other emphasis of your published stories in the browser, one-week VIP passport to Pocket D -- stuff like that.)
For veteran and long-time players MA is handy because some of us don't enjoy the low level content and if you altitis (like myself) you find yourself getting bored of lowbie content quicker. I'm not completely against it, it can help you get past boring bits of the game but if new players are doing it they're missing out on the content and probably won't want to look at other content.
If you ask me they should take the AE buildings away from lowbie zones and stick them in higher level zones (But not too high or else people won't bother_
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[ QUOTE ]
Why don't the devs actually make new contacts with new arcs/missions?
[/ QUOTE ]
To the best of my knowledge, the devs have never said that they won't be doing this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although Posi's "we'll do TF's, you lot do missions!" statement was a tad worrying.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean this exchange?
04-28-2009 18:05:29 [Local] Myopic Aardvark: Was looking for more story (as in arcs, rather than TFs)
04-28-2009 18:06:08 [Local] Positron: We could write Arcs, but with MA out there, we'd rather write TF/SF's
If so I see the key word to be 'rather'. He doesn't say that they won't write arcs just that they'd rather write TF/SFs.
I'll probably have chicken and chips for dinner tonight - I've got some in and it needs eating. I'd rather have duck and hoi sin wraps. But I'll still eat the chicken and enjoy it.
Now I think that probably means we'll get the arcs explaining new zones/factions/organisations and TF/SFs but not much by way of additional old style arcs beyond that. Heck - we'll probably see the odd makeover, a la Hollows, with a new contact (though possibly repeatable missions rather than arcs). And if any new EATs come in then I'd imagine that they'd have some unique arc content as well.
That doesn't really bother me too much...
1. A new zone could see a few new contacts offering arcs - so I could see a reasonable amount of new arc content coming.
2. The coming storm will see new arcs as it comes closer then arrives... Probably by the new factions/organisations clause. You just can't throw too much at players with only TF/SFs to explain it... and if the Coming Storm turns out to be the world changing event that it should be then it'll need the odd arc (or at least mini-arc) outside of TF/SFs...
3. Spending more time on TF/SFs would hopefully give the devs more time to devote to the cuning tricks and unique maps/tactics that can make TF/SFs really stand out - the type of thing that you just never get in arcs/normal missions. Look at Katie/Hess/STF/ITF (and probably most SFs - but I've still only done a couple of them 
)
The opposite side of this is that (when the MA settles down and the whey can be seperated) the players can now create stories/arcs with many (most?) of the tools/tricks used by the devs for their normal arcs - but the players have an advantage. By sheer numbers and diversity they will eventually write arcs that you think are better than at least 95% of dev-created arcs. It's the infinite monkeys effect... the 50+ devs imaginations cannot compete with hundreds of thousands of players' imaginations. And, if they want to write good arcs, as time goes on the players will get better at the writing/construction side. On a level playing field with the same mission-construction tools, tips & tricks the players will eventually win.
So let the devs excel at the bits that players can't do. The bits that let the devs work really shine and stand out. The bits that create those Wow! moments (Hess anyone?)
The biggest real downside as far as I can see is that shifting the dev output to focus more on TF/SFs may mean that peopl ewho never get chance to play TF/SFs wget th eshort end of the stick... But the rest of the playerbase should get real gems that were worth the development time & effort - rather than a new coat of devpaint over the same old arc format.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Good post Dave, but the reality of it is this.
Posi said what he said. It was amiguous and basically he should have said nothing or been more forthcoming.
Issue 15 has been outlined for us. It has a TF and a SF. No new contacts, arcs/missions are to be seen.
Speculation is all very well, but given that we haven't seen a whole lot of new storyline content, apart from Cimerora/Midnight Squad stuff in recent issues, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to arrive in i16.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
Lets face it , not the ones who want to pl their lvl 1 chars are to be blamed, the lvl50 who invites the lvl 1s or pl them are to be blamed.
A lvl 1 or even lvl35 cant really powerlvl, its the 50 that pl OTHERS.
The 50s do farms for inf and tickets and not to pl their chars.
If every 50 would charge like 10 million for low lvl chars to join the team, powerlvling would be no isssue ^^
If i do farms for inf on my 50 and others want to join, i taake a look at their lvl.... if not 35+ no invite, if 35+, i look at the badges, if they have none, they did get pl before and no invite, if they doorsit or go afk often, kick from team. If they got no vet badge at all and are lvl 30+,no invite.
I do farms now and then for inf or tickets or recipes and drops, but if every 50 who farms would just invite people to the team matching my criteria, farming wouldnt be so bad as it is now.
Just my opinion :-)
Sorry Dave, but I disagree with your assessment, given that Posi was answering the question straight after me.
But there's nothing we can do about what he said or didn't say now. Time will tell.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Posi said what he said. It was amiguous and basically he should have said nothing or been more forthcoming.
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Eh, it was a standard "could, but" construction. That's not particularly ambigious, even if it's not an absolute negation.
Yeah i find it odd since pl is high in demand that noone is charging for runs.
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Yeah i find it odd since pl is high in demand that noone is charging for runs.
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Considering that you can make 20 million an hour in an MA farm, there really isn't any need to is there?
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
Well new players start with nothing.
After reading some of the suggestions on how to deal with MA, I am so [censored] glad none of you lot are designing this game. Seriously, no offense meant.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
The first thing I do on newly created characters is to /hide from searches to avoid farming requests - made 3 new characters this week, 2 had farming tells before I could hide, one of them before the tutorial zone finished loading. They're everywhere now, even if you are hidden - on /broadcast, on global channels, and I had to stop using Cap AE building to work on my arcs...
The new players coming from Steam don't stand a chance (that's if the forum drama didn't put them off ) - the farmers scoop up the newbies and turn them into farmers before they can form their own lowbie teams. Farming seems to be becoming the mainstream playstyle at cost to the TF/SF and normal grouping teams - it reminds me of that line in Braveheart: "if we can't get them out, we'll breed them out".
I love the creativity of MA, but it's being used to wreck the game. Now even the badgers are joining the farmers in wrecking the MA's (admittedly flawed) rating system - publishing lists of the arcIDs of their badge-farm missions for badgers to give 5 star ratings to (regardless of whether it's deserved), further skewing searches. Cheers for that guys.
I wish the MA had no badges, maybe no inf, and a cap on the amount of xp/tickets each character (or perhaps account) could earn in there per hour/day.
The pace of change in general gameplay habits this last few weeks has been astonishing. The Devs need to step in, and soon, before the damage is irreparable to the long term health of this game. I never thought we'd see another Issue that changed the game, positively and negatively, as much as I9 did but I14 has managed it, and in time I fear the negatives will outweigh the positives.
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A lvl 1 or even lvl35 cant really powerlvl, its the 50 that pl OTHERS.
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Not true anymore with the MA now being used as it can act like an auto-sidekick.
I took my lvl 2 Fire tank which i had sitting around for 2 months into a mission solo where it was fillied with lvl 42 Rikti Coms Officers and my level was set at 42. The tank had 2 powers from its primary 1 secondary, brawl, sands of mu and the Nem Staff and nothing else. There where 3 coms officers in each spawn and after about 5 coms officers i levelled I managed 10 spawns before I got killed giving me 7 levels. I was nowhere near clearing the map, that was me soloing i dread to imagine what a team of 8 could have been doing even if everyone dropped out to hospital after death and levelled they could easily have gained 20 or more levels on the map going through it once.
Just taken a final wander around Villains and, y'know, I couldn't find any trace of farmers spamming broadcast in any of the zones I visited. Where are they hanging out?
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Well broadcast in Cap Au D is full of "Lff team/Farm Team wanted etc."
(Just logged in myself there and that was 6 or 7 broadcast messages before the screen came in.)
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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Here's a thought - the MA is only available, like Ourobouros, to lvl 25s plus. You need to do the tutorial before you can touch the system.
As it is, new players even if they're not farming/powerlevelling are still seeing a lot of the content for 'later on' (i.e. mobs that appear after certain levels etc). So put a level cap on the MA, that'd be my solution.
Oh and remove it from Kings, Mercy, Atlas and Galaxy. Any other zones? Oh yes, Port Oakes.
Yes, it removes early level heroes/villains from enjoying different content to the starting stuff. Heck, you never know, it might encourage developers to make some more new content for those levels to alleviate the boredom?
*rolls on floor, laughing, clutching stomach*
I know, it's sad to laugh at your own jokes, but...
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^This is one of the best solutions I have seen so far. I also think diminishing returns would work nicely as well.
My currant thoughts about MA and farming can be found in my signature. I facepalm every time I see someone spam broadcast with 'MA Farm team looking for members' and my face is beginning to hurt.