MA farming: The way to kill an MMO
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2009-05-01 12:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Also, I'd rather do a farm map full of minions than a 'story arc' where the first mission ends in an Elite Boss.
I couldn't give a damn how good of an author everyone is claiming you are, if I can't dare to put my difficulty up the one single step from the bottom simply so I can have a normal Boss instead of a Lieutenant when I solo (and I'm pretty sure actual Elite Bosses don't downgrade on the lowest diff anyway), you can stick your arc someplace warm and wet. If authors actually thought to make it a STORY arc instead of a KILL THE SQUISHIES arc I might choose to partake in something other than a mindless carnage map. Which I like. I really do. Every day I like to spend a few hours splattering bad guys all over the walls, it's way more fun than having to once again face down the Elite Boss some **** has crafted to be a debuffing combat monster because their ego has problems with anything less than a large team beating up their 'awesome' character.
Oh and don't go thinking I'm not equal opportunity on this, whoever thought you should be having to grind your way through so many Elite Bosses complete with entourage for the Billy Heck story arc in Port Oakes should be punched in the neck.
I'm irritated now. I'm gonna go kill a few thousand Rikti Comms Officers.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'd rather do a farm map full of minions than a 'story arc' where the first mission ends in an Elite Boss.
I couldn't give a damn how good of an author everyone is claiming you are, if I can't dare to put my difficulty up the one single step from the bottom simply so I can have a normal Boss instead of a Lieutenant when I solo (and I'm pretty sure actual Elite Bosses don't downgrade on the lowest diff anyway), you can stick your arc someplace warm and wet. If authors actually thought to make it a STORY arc instead of a KILL THE SQUISHIES arc I might choose to partake in something other than a mindless carnage map. Which I like. I really do. Every day I like to spend a few hours splattering bad guys all over the walls, it's way more fun than having to once again face down the Elite Boss some **** has crafted to be a debuffing combat monster because their ego has problems with anything less than a large team beating up their 'awesome' character.
Oh and don't go thinking I'm not equal opportunity on this, whoever thought you should be having to grind your way through so many Elite Bosses complete with entourage for the Billy Heck story arc in Port Oakes should be punched in the neck.
I'm irritated now. I'm gonna go kill a few thousand Rikti Comms Officers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was a dumb kid, too.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
[ QUOTE ]
I was a dumb kid, too.
[/ QUOTE ]
And an even more stupid adult.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
[ QUOTE ]
There is no need to deny that farming, or more accurately the consequences of farming, is an issue right now. It shouldn't be one for much longer though but we need to iron out a few things before we can make our stance public.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you dont punish players for farming, despite i hate all the farming going on its not the players fault but the devs.
The devs were very short minded if they never considered the MA would be used to make farms.
Even in beta it was totally clear that players would abuse MA to make farms.
The devs gave the players the tools to make farm maps, so you cant blame the players for using them.
Put a stop to the farms in a clever way, but DONT punish the players subsequently for a fault the devs have done, that only leads to angry players and cancelled subs.
[ QUOTE ]
And an even more stupid adult.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you really think your posts and you using language and insulting people leads to the conclusion that you are an mature and intelligent adult ?
Better think again .......
The flaming has begun! *makes a break for his fallout shelter*
[ QUOTE ]
I might choose to partake in something other than a mindless carnage map. Which I like. I really do. Every day I like to spend a few hours splattering bad guys all over the walls, it's way more fun than having to once again face down the Elite Boss some **** has crafted to be a debuffing combat monster because their ego has problems with anything less than a large team beating up their 'awesome' character.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to raise a few points here myself. First off I totally, 100% enjoy carnage maps myself, a decent mission with lots of combat and objectives is always going to rate highly with me and anyone thats played the first mission of LGTF with me ( well, anything with Rikti in really ) will understand why.
However, a map full of the SAME enemy over and over again, such as Comm officers or other opponents that are placed purely for the inf / merits instead of being placed for carnage I find absolutely boring as hell.
Now I know, and would never say that I'm always 100% right and that the aforementioned missions aren't enjoyable to everyone. but what I do get annoyed with are missions where the Architect involved has entered one word into each text box, no story etc and the fact that most broadcasts now refer to "farm teams" rather than doing missions. That in my opinion is why there is such great debate on farming at the moment, because its encroaching on what the established playerbase who don't want to farm!
We are really blessed in CoH with some great content, brilliant one of TF's and SF's such as the Leviathan, Silver Mantis, LGTF etc, and its become inceasingly difficult to enjoy this content because people are literally farming to 50.
Now again, some people want to just get to 50, get the inventions and move on, now again if thats what they enjoy, then so be it, but in my personal opinion, thats now what MMO's really are about.
With regards to the MA, I think its a great system for making customised missions, allowing people to create fantastic stories, mini taskforces and really enjoyable mission arcs, its just a shame that its use has really undermined ( and this isnt the fault of the system, more in the way the system is used ) what a fun and brilliant MMO that we already had.
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
What i find funny is they put so much time on merits then they made them obsolete. In one issue.
And i wouldnt hold my breath on any major fixes since they seem to prefer halfdone solutions and move on to the next shiny thing.
I've been quite on this for a while so i recon its time i stuck my opinion in and added a few observations.
I note that the US has a official farming thread, can we have 1 as well or can at the very least 1 farming thread be picked as "the farming thread" and the rest locked?
one reason farming on the MA is disliked seems to be because of the number of missions that are just a single map filled the Comm officers and yes this as a pain. However i don't know about any one else (well except khork) but i find the number of uber AV arcs a right pain i had a hour to play last night so logged in and headed to the MA for some quick mission action, the first few missions i looked at all had AVs so i picking the smallest looking arc and got started and gave up 10 mins later a stone armour/kinetics AV backed up by a load of energy melee/super reflexes Boss i didn't have a hope in hell so i quit the arc and go find another oh joy of joys its a AV love fest second room in i discover 3 spawns each with a AV again whats the point of me even trying. So with little over half a hour left i take a look at broadcast spot a farm team looking for members and i send a tell what followed was a very pleasant 30 mins yes it would be nice for some mob variety but ill take good banter and boring mobs over solo AV hell any day.
I think its also worth saying that if it was possible to categorize MA arcs there's a good chance there would be fewer farm maps and even if there wasn't at least they would all be in one place.
Another problem people seem to have with farming or more specifically MA farming is the effect that its having on the market well sorry I'm not seeing that terrible effect of course it could be that all the problems are blue side. But it would seem strange that the MA would have a detrimental effect on the market blue side but a good effect red side. Over the last week I've been using the tickets i gather to get a combination of common salvage and bronze recipes I've then been sticking these on the black market as 5 inf on average I'm getting about 2000inf for common salvage now of course that's a average within that average there are pieces that are luck if they get me 100inf and then there are the luck charms that net me a fair bit more. but the range of prices doesnt seem that much different than before the MA launched they maybe up slightly but as any one can get there hands on common salvage easily i fail to see how thats a bad thing. As to the bronze class recipes there prices are all over the place (just as they were before MA arrived) and the same recipe can sell for maybe 5000inf one day and 1 mil the next for no apparent good reason.
Finally there's the people are getting to 50 to quick argument i believe this is the only argument with any kind of merit while I'm not convinced that its a problem i do see that it could potentially be a problem if new subs are only staying as long as it takes to get to 50 and then leaving but again I'm not see huge number of new subs from those farm teams I've been in most have been 6+ month veats and the only non vet a spotted turned out to actually be a 24 month veats second account. I wonder how many people are seeing power lvling in atals and instantly assumeing that its a new sub and not just a some ones new alt.
Now on to my personal reasons for farming. Im a altaholic there's nothing more i like than rolling a new alt however i have a problem my play time, is pretty limited and those long play sessions i get are few and far between. So many of my alts get stuck in the low lvls the only ones that make any true progression being my brutes. Which i love above all other ATs and i have several at 50 (all archived pre MA) but as good as brutes are there have been times on high end TFs and missions that i've wanted to bring something else to the team these thoughts have normally resulted in a the rolling of a non brute alt but the low lvls are a drag I've done the content already i cant take on the AVs and EBs that infest many Architect arcs so i loose interest in the alt. Farming has saved these alts from the fiery pits of deleted alt hell and has boosted them up to the point where i find them playable and i get enjoyment from them which i would recon is a good thing.
[ QUOTE ]
There is no need to deny that farming, or more accurately the consequences of farming, is an issue right now. It shouldn't be one for much longer though but we need to iron out a few things before we can make our stance public.
[/ QUOTE ]
Watch out for incoming nerfs to the whole MA system, sorry but history with the devs in this game has shown me that they dont sort out small problems they destroy the whole thing.
Look out for empty MA building s coming to a zone near you,
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no need to deny that farming, or more accurately the consequences of farming, is an issue right now. It shouldn't be one for much longer though but we need to iron out a few things before we can make our stance public.
[/ QUOTE ]
That sounds kinda...ominous 
[/ QUOTE ]
Well ominous for one side or another I guess. 
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, reading between the lines, it looks like they're planning on dropping huge irons onto people who farm, and they're going through a testing phase right now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is that going to be just MA farmers or all farmers?
They borked the AH so that you can't buy things for sensible prices, now they're trying to get rid of the only way of making the money to buy things. Why don't they just remove the economy altogether? They'd kill 90% of farmers instantly that way.
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how many people are seeing power lvling in atals and instantly assumeing that its a new sub and not just a some ones new alt.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is, usually, my first thought upon entering the MA building. Getting the badges info from random onlookers is a good way of checking - a million architect badges and *nothing* else is a good way of spotting them (unless, as you've mentioned, a vet's second account). Other than that it's the questions that the average player has figured out themselves before Level 10 'what does a blue insp do again?', 'I want to farm but don't know how' etc.
I also note that most of these toons have rubbish names, usually related to their AT and powersets. My Energy/Energy blaster, for instance would probably now be called 'NRG B1ast Guy3' or something. The secret, though, is to go and craft your MA missions in the dampened power room, with team invites set to 'don't accept' so nothing bothers you.
Every MMO has places where you can farm - be it spider nests in SWG to get your Jedi through those tough later levels when the content was sparse and difficult, or spawning fields in WoW of X, Y and Z creatures to just get you through the next couple of levels to use A, B or C piece of equipment.
Where CoH falls down is the starting zones. One for Villains, one for Heroes, no matter what your AT. Upon exiting that, Heroes get two choices of starting zone and villains one, though with two contacts. That's it. Beyond your third or fourth toon, you've used up all the options. Hell, even the different AT options blueside all have to go to the same bloomin' building to get their missions from the fun with acronyms agents. Hopeless.
WoW, on the other hand, has a starting zone for each different race (bar death knights, as alliance/horde share the same one), for a total of 9. It's difficult to get bored with taking a new toon through the early levels if all you need to do is switch race to open up a whole different set of early content.
Do I need to go to the Hollows for the nth time to level my character by killing Frostfire for the n-1th time? No, I'll go to MA and do it easier, faster and with a bigger group. MA was a good idea, but (as of before the patch today, at least) they've broken their own game.
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
I agree with Dr_Mechano's post - Pandora's Box is definitely open and the Devs can't put the lid back on. Ultimately I think the Devs just need to man up and stick in an xp-per-time cap that only exploitative farmers/PLers would hit. Then they wouldn't even need to start implementing widespread nerfs to Prisoners or Rikti Comm Officers that affect the whole playerbase - they could directly control how fast they want players to be able to level by adjusting the cap (i.e. they could double it for double-xp weekends).
I love IOs and the MA, but what I hate is the massive effects I9 and I14 have had on general playstyles and the community - effects which the Devs should have foreseen and mitigated. Both have good points (I9's build diversity and added progression, I14's creativity and exponential content increase), but significant bad points too (I9 adding loot-greed and time-sinks re crafting and managing extra inventories and market slots, I14's pro-farming effects but also further impacting recipe availability on the market on top of what I13's merits did).
I find it sad that I14 has undermined the widespread TF teaming that I13 promoted and that both I13 & I14 have made it harder to quickly buy the IOs you want when you level (I still tend to get things at the prices I want to pay, but it takes overnight/weekly bids now). The pro- and anti-farming squabbles both in-game and on the forum have been discouraging too. Not to mention that all this is happening at the worst possible time; just before CoH's first direct competitor is released. Very sad.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and don't go thinking I'm not equal opportunity on this, whoever thought you should be having to grind your way through so many Elite Bosses complete with entourage for the Billy Heck story arc in Port Oakes should be punched in the neck.
[/ QUOTE ]
A bit extreme. Tbh those low level EBs in CoV are hardly much tougher than bosses with extra health points - imho Dr Vahzilok and Frostfire in CoH are tougher solo than any of the sub-20 CoV EBs. Admittedly I'm biased - I like EBs (even with my dominators), I like a challenge and I hate Rikti comm officer farms.
Though I would like to see mission difficulty be easier to tweak and more customisable - I even made a suggestion about it, back in the dim and distant past. Then those who want an easier ride can get it, but those who want a challenge can as well, and tweak it on a per-character or changing mood basis.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no need to deny that farming, or more accurately the consequences of farming, is an issue right now. It shouldn't be one for much longer though but we need to iron out a few things before we can make our stance public.
[/ QUOTE ]
That sounds kinda...ominous
[/ QUOTE ]
Well ominous for one side or another I guess.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, reading between the lines, it looks like they're planning on dropping huge irons onto people who farm, and they're going through a testing phase right now.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork