Very interesting thread.
Firtly, anybody, elite or new player who makes a mistake should not be persecuted. Quite frankly, nobody should bat an eyelid.
At a certain point repeated mistakes can edge into what can appear to be greifing. But I dont think your freind is getting anywhere near that, unless Im mising the mark. For instance, a scrapper repeatedly charging off solo and dragging a mob towards the rest of the team screaming "HEAL" (a classic) will start to annoy anybody.
As for builds, this is an interesting problem. I hold my hand up; I glance at everybodys build. Not in depth (heaven forbid I dont look at their IO powers to see how "1337" they are) but just to get an idea of how to play with them. A storm defender makes things a lot different to an Empath (for instance).
But, I confess, there are builds that get my goat. If a tank hasnt got taunt or (as I have seen) a taunt aura, I get irritated. Is that elitist? Maybe. In all honesty, however, I also confess to thinking tht certain "builds" indicating (not proving) a lack of teamsmanship. If a build is all about "me me me" with no powers helping other players, then I have noticed a tendency for the player to play like that. I usually reserve judgement, but there it is.
Lastly, I want to bring up another more difficult point about builds. I remember my first toon, and building it pretty chaotically. Some helpful chap politely pointed out "Get Stamina as soon as possible".
And Im very glad he did.
When I see a new player, Im stuck in a dilema. On the one hand, I really dont want to patronise him/her by telling him/her what to get. On the other hand, a few key pointers (like GET STAMINA) can be really helpful. I dont know what other people think about this.
I suppose the dilema also applies to play, occassionally. I remember I was oncein a small team of new players, around level 5-8, who were sucking wind a lot. I noticed that they were all running sprint whilst fighting, and I suggested, politely, that its agood idea to turn that off whist fighting. One or two players got the hump and gave me an ear bashing.
So Im not talking about "ZOMG u n00b u have to slot flamethrower with two range and one accuracy" (or whatever). Stuff that. But a few very basic pointers can really make a difference to a toon, and possibly keep that player in the game. Dilema... Dilema....
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Very interesting thread.
Firtly, anybody, elite or new player who makes a mistake should not be persecuted. Quite frankly, nobody should bat an eyelid.
At a certain point repeated mistakes can edge into what can appear to be greifing. But I dont think your freind is getting anywhere near that, unless Im mising the mark. For instance, a scrapper repeatedly charging off solo and dragging a mob towards the rest of the team screaming "HEAL" (a classic) will start to annoy anybody.
As for builds, this is an interesting problem. I hold my hand up; I glance at everybodys build. Not in depth (heaven forbid I dont look at their IO powers to see how "1337" they are) but just to get an idea of how to play with them. A storm defender makes things a lot different to an Empath (for instance).
But, I confess, there are builds that get my goat. If a tank hasnt got taunt or (as I have seen) a taunt aura, I get irritated. Is that elitist? Maybe. In all honesty, however, I also confess to thinking tht certain "builds" indicating (not proving) a lack of teamsmanship. If a build is all about "me me me" with no powers helping other players, then I have noticed a tendency for the player to play like that. I usually reserve judgement, but there it is.
Lastly, I want to bring up another more difficult point about builds. I remember my first toon, and building it pretty chaotically. Some helpful chap politely pointed out "Get Stamina as soon as possible".
And Im very glad he did.
When I see a new player, Im stuck in a dilema. On the one hand, I really dont want to patronise him/her by telling him/her what to get. On the other hand, a few key pointers (like GET STAMINA) can be really helpful. I dont know what other people think about this.
I suppose the dilema also applies to play, occassionally. I remember I was oncein a small team of new players, around level 5-8, who were sucking wind a lot. I noticed that they were all running sprint whilst fighting, and I suggested, politely, that its agood idea to turn that off whist fighting. One or two players got the hump and gave me an ear bashing.
So Im not talking about "ZOMG u n00b u have to slot flamethrower with two range and one accuracy" (or whatever). Stuff that. But a few very basic pointers can really make a difference to a toon, and possibly keep that player in the game. Dilema... Dilema....
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I agree. I had people point out things like stamina etc and it really helped me grasp the way to build at least a functional toon. I dont care what anyone says about concept a character that runs out of endurance half way through every mob just isnt fun to play.
The hard part is either imparting or recieving such advice without people taking it as an insult.
And while people have every right to play the game how they like the same applies to me. If I am playing a tanker and a stormy blows every single mob to the horizon I will ask them to either switch it off or use it responsibly. I dont care what names I get called but I always play for the team no matter what character I am playing. I enjoy doing everything I can to make a team work at its best. I dont expect the same from the other players but at the same time I do expect them to at least try. Kin fenders constantly spamming their weak attacks in a team full of blasters and having to constantly ask for a SB gets old pretty quick.
But in reference to the OP I just have never found elitism that common in PUGs. There may be the odd person but never a whole team. You may get someone who tells you that tankers are over-rated and irrelevant but just take it all with a pinch of salt. And for the truly obnoxious you can ignore or avoid just as easily.
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Nothing like a thread about community elitism to bring out the WoW hate brigade.
Hey guys, newsflash - forums aren't indicative of the gaming populace. If you've had serious, consistent issues on WoW ingame then you're either one the unluckiest people or you're being a total jerk yourself.
I'm elitist. I'm horribly elitist. I don't have a problem with new players not knowing how things work or how to play x to it's best potential - I just don't enjoy playing with them that much. Their style/speed of play simply doesn't match mine, I have friends that don't match. It's not a huge deal.
Elitism is fine and dandy, being a dick isn't and while similar, they're different things.
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Without wishing to get into an argument over semantics, I don't think that what you're talking about is what most people think of as elitism.
Elitism for me is that arrogant, holier than though, "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me, irrespective of how polite or logical their argument is should disappear back under the rock from whence they slithered" attitude. And actually, that is being a dick.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
Elitism for me has always been the "I have better loot than you/my guild can kill boss x and therefore i am better then you and you're but dirt beneath me".
In CoX it's mostly "i'm more veteran than you, so you should all do what i tell you to cause i know best" or "you play the game wrong in my opinion and therefore i will kick you from team".
Both being equally stupid 
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When I see a new player, Im stuck in a dilema. On the one hand, I really dont want to patronise him/her by telling him/her what to get. On the other hand, a few key pointers (like GET STAMINA) can be really helpful. I dont know what other people think about this.
I suppose the dilema also applies to play, occassionally. I remember I was oncein a small team of new players, around level 5-8, who were sucking wind a lot. I noticed that they were all running sprint whilst fighting, and I suggested, politely, that its agood idea to turn that off whist fighting. One or two players got the hump and gave me an ear bashing.
So Im not talking about "ZOMG u n00b u have to slot flamethrower with two range and one accuracy" (or whatever). Stuff that. But a few very basic pointers can really make a difference to a toon, and possibly keep that player in the game. Dilema... Dilema....
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I think that's the key, Cognito. It's all about approach. I think it's a 50/50 whether well intentioned advice makes people get the hump or go "oh ok fair enough", but you're more likely to get the latter response if you say something like, "Have you thought of..." or, "Maybe we should try..." rather than "[censored] are you...." or "FFS you should....."
(censor I love you.. you censor one but not the other *shakes head*)
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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Elitism for me has always been the "I have better loot than you/my guild can kill boss x and therefore i am better then you and you're but dirt beneath me".
In CoX it's mostly "i'm more veteran than you, so you should all do what i tell you to cause i know best" or "you play the game wrong in my opinion and therefore i will kick you from team".
Both being equally stupid
[/ QUOTE ]i had some SG saying theirs is better to mine, as mine was [censored] as i had lower prestige then them as there where/are still at the top of the 100 SG both side both servers
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Sure, I'll throw a MAJOR hissy fit whenever I see a VEAT in my team without Tactical Training: Maneuvers. But if I'm leading, I won't kick them.
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Thats big of you.
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Well even if my VEAT doesn't end up being popular I might wind up being talked about. Unless I dont team with these people till the 40s where I just about have room
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
The two forms of Elitism I ever come across are , one , the .. well he doesnt have any vet badges ..typical noob type ..where the person is dismissed as worthless because they are new to the game
which is a double shame ..as how else are they meant to learn but to play , and what a shoot ones self in the foot method when we want more players on the servers , to keep the game growing and active .
The second variant is the thats not how you build a whatever/whatever AT
ok Yes if you offer up your toon for teaming ..it is only reasonable to have the basic powers for the build .. but often it goes too far , and I even see people being ranted at for their slotting and IO picks
part of the joy of CoX is variety
hopefully dual builds will help this problem
Having played a wide range of MMOs I do have to say there does seem to have a large number of proactive vocal Elitists , compared to other game ..may be part of this is the ease of seeing the numbers behind the game , makes it easy for those who have to claw that last 0.05% bonus to define perfection . 
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Lastly, I want to bring up another more difficult point about builds. I remember my first toon, and building it pretty chaotically. Some helpful chap politely pointed out "Get Stamina as soon as possible".
And Im very glad he did.
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I still don't know who told me this, but if I find you I will kiss you. 
This is one of those little things that people need to be told. And there is a way to do it, especially if someone is saying how their end sucks, then suggest it.
Pick your audience and target. If someone is asking questions you should feel free to dispense advice.
the problem is trying to explain you have to get to level 20 to be able to get Stamina .. 
..now that would make a good Vet reward ..stamina with no pre req's
by now you thing it would be on the first splash screen .. GET STAMINA ....
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the problem is trying to explain you have to get to level 20 to be able to get Stamina .. ..now that would make a good Vet reward ..stamina with no pre req's
by now you thing it would be on the first splash screen .. GET STAMINA ....
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Why should it? Stamina is useful sure, but by no means essential. I've made plenty of successful builds without it, so telling people they NEED it is just another form of elitism. 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Yes, but for a new player, taking Stamina is a lot easier than hitting on a build that doesn't need it.
I really should do something about this signature.
Well, if he isn't fan of claw-wielding regenerating heroes, or archery fanatic... In fact I have low-40s Claws/regen, and although I 've taken Health, I didn't take Stamina. It just almost never runs out, and when it does couple of CaBs solve that particular problem.
I wont start on my call for Stamina et al to be changed so that its an inherent or somesuch. But yes, it SHOULD be a hint, in bold. It might not be necessary IF you know how to counter it. New players wont, unless given a heads up, know that
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I find far more elitism on the forums than I do in game for some reason. The people I met in game are so nice and understanding yet come to these broads and its like its a different game. I do keep my distance for certain names in case they start on me.
there are only a few Stam - less builds ..and try explaining End Reduc Enhancements and slotting takes way longer , as such slotting will change across levels .
Hmm may be i am a Stam elitist ..na couldnt be ..
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there are only a few Stam - less builds ..and try explaining End Reduc Enhancements and slotting takes way longer , as such slotting will change across levels .
Hmm may be i am a Stam elitist ..na couldnt be ..
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Couldn't disagree with you more. Hell, I took a PB all the way to level 50, as a triform, with neither Stamina OR EndRedux enhancements. Sure I had a little downtime between fights, but it certainly wasn't a problem.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
All my chars have Stamina, i think there's no exception to that. However i've never once felt stamina is a must have, i just like to have it because it reduces and even removes downtime for me.
Fitness is a pool for improving your quality of life imo
Perhaps one day i will try make a build without stamina, but now level 22 is a goal for me when characters are becoming more fun to play and i can pick up the pace. At 22 i get both SOs and will have a three slotted stamina.
*** cough stamina derail cough ***
hehe my bad 
I'm an elitist b*tch!
there now we back on track
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there are only a few Stam - less builds ..and try explaining End Reduc Enhancements and slotting takes way longer , as such slotting will change across levels .
Hmm may be i am a Stam elitist ..na couldnt be ..
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Couldn't disagree with you more. Hell, I took a PB all the way to level 50, as a triform, with neither Stamina OR EndRedux enhancements. Sure I had a little downtime between fights, but it certainly wasn't a problem.
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Although I agree Stamina is not essential, I think it is pretty essential for new players.
Even for experienced players, there are only a few builds I would consider NOT having it.
You bring up your Peacebringer as an example - which a) Is only available to more experienced players and b) has two forms available with inbuilt +recovery
Without some other form of end recovery (kinetics, energy armour, electric armour, etc etc) I would very rarely consider not getting stamina, even with my experience.
As it stands, every single one of my toons has stamina. WHilst I coulld technically omit it, its just makes playing a toon that much smoother.
Nothing is acbsolutely required, but there a few hints that will almost universally make playing a toon a lot more fun.
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hehe my bad
I'm an elitist b*tch!
there now we back on track
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Well, i am not really sure about elitist part.
To be honest i prefer this kinda topic to be derailed instead of accusing each other with some titles. We are all humans and we have our own personality normally. So i guess this thread or any other will make a slightest effect on people and their behaviors.
If you are tired of that kinda players use Global ignore, if you like a player use Global friend to keep them near you. For forums just stay away from dangerous topics and the ones includes the people who you think as elitists.
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Nothing is acbsolutely required, but there a few hints that will almost universally make playing a toon a lot more fun.
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So slap a hint for it on loading screens, like current hints are. Certainly no need for it to be a popup message when you load. That would just be seen as a failure on the devs part to not make it an inherent.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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If you are tired of that kinda players use Global ignore, if you like a player use Global friend to keep them near you. For forums just stay away from dangerous topics and the ones includes the people who you think as elitists.
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Fortunatly we have used Global Friends for Aurealis's friend and also our SG. We now have a tight core of people who team regularly together which makes the game fun. It's all about finding your niche.
A newbie can learn an Elitist won't.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.