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Strange because i was in a 3 way pvp match the other day and two of us was /sr scrappers. My /sr has only basic IOs in its defence powers but was very noticeable that i wasnt getting hit nowhere near as much as the others (granted this was pre epics so wouldv influenced).
We all agreed after a couple of fights that /sr is much better now. /sr is basically all about luck really though isnt it.
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Oddness :S
Well, yes ... it's all luck. Even I can't be that unlucky though 
I'll do another run through RV this week and see if I can narrow it down more. Certainly seems to be contradictory reports here.
Fahie
I went into sirens to get explorations and patrol badge and there was a Dark/ stalker and when i took breaks to chat he would break hide to hit me a couple of times, at least try. SO´d shield scrapper(CJ) and steadfast unique, 28% positonal defence. When he hit me for pitiful damage i laughed a little then i was sad for him.
I haven't noticed much difference, the zones still seem pretty empty, when there has been ppl in there they seem to be badging, when they did pvp i was accused of ganking even though I play a support toon, yet they felt killing a support toon in a one on one was completely fair, oh well, as more things change the more they stay the same I guess.
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I haven't noticed much difference, the zones still seem pretty empty, when there has been ppl in there they seem to be badging, when they did pvp i was accused of ganking even though I play a support toon, yet they felt killing a support toon in a one on one was completely fair, oh well, as more things change the more they stay the same I guess.
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No offence but if you haven't noticed much difference then you didn't zone PvP much before. It's totally different.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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I haven't noticed much difference, the zones still seem pretty empty, when there has been ppl in there they seem to be badging, when they did pvp i was accused of ganking even though I play a support toon, yet they felt killing a support toon in a one on one was completely fair, oh well, as more things change the more they stay the same I guess.
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No offence but if you haven't noticed much difference then you didn't zone PvP much before. It's totally different.
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Used to pvp every night about a year ago but now only very occasionally as the numbers of ppl just dropped. I wasn't at all referring to pvp mechanics but to the zones general atmosphere/use.
But as a now casual pvper in zones the only difference that I FEEL is that I now live longer the other changes tho huge changes didn't force me to think I could not adapt them.
I'm a fan of pvp not your enemy
I can't believe I am saying this but I actually agree with Shannon to some extent.
I would like to see the poorer performers in PvP brough up to a level where I can fight them and they have a change of beating me.
I saw a porr kin/elec defender trying to beat a scrapper in the arena yesterday. I have a kin/elec myself. Great debuffs but the damage of elec was laughable. Sets like this could be improved and restore balance to an unbalanced game.
Saying its balanced for teams and not solo is rubbish as well. While I agree that sets like kin and bubbles are always going to be much more of a team asset than a deverstating solo build, I think they should still have a chance against a bog standard, run of the mill scrapper with very little pvp skill.
The def did manage a 1 all draw in the end, but the scrapper was so bad that should never have happened.
@Sweet Chilli
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Build was confused with skill too much. I think most PvPers wouldn't entertain some characters in PvP although in team PvP there is potential for success of most builds from the result of what the rest of the team can do.
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I have to disagree with this. There's plenty of PvP'ers who use power sets that were deemed to be poor performers and still killed everything in sight.
TG's AR/Dev blaster comes to mind.
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I said most, not all and I doubt that killed everything in sight or is PvP that easy? 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Well, It tells you somethings wrong when you have Ultimate Improved Regen, Ultimate Improved Recovery, drop Eye of the Magnus + Vanguard - throw yourselves into a fight and be out of steam, out of health and dead in under 30 seconds.
To be honest I had been persisting with PvP in the hope that some small aspect of it would catch on but I think after tonight I'll be retiring from PvP.
The Issue 13 PvP revamp just killed the fun for me, Its slow, its haphazard, its bland. I'm not seeing the returns on the hard work I put into the build on 1v1 anymore and team contribution as Empath is worse than terrible with 2x heal suppresion and movement suppresion on healing both myself and others, I spend most of the time at an unslotted hovering pace.
Sorry NorCal, It may be part of your masterplan but a big portion of endgame appeal has gone for this Veteran with these changes, I guess I'll drop in for spider salvage and an Inf boost when I need it, but I am just not enjoying it anymore. So I'll think I'll retire from the PvP'ing until I see some improvement.
Real shame. Sorry, I hate feeling like I am having a moan but personally, for me, the challenge,skill and tactics of high end zonal PvP are gone. Shame. 
[i]Hey!, look on the bright-side... at least if you attack me for rep I won't fight back. <laughs>
A Grandville PvP zone would be cool, one that is not for newcomers, that pve players or badgers have a need to go into. One that means you need to prepare with a super build. Kill or be killed. You guys could be in the place that future pvpers want to progress to. Meanwhile non hardcore players have zones where they wont be simply farmed and can get into it.
I must admit suppression works for me cos I like it toe to toe.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
i tryed pvp on test with my lvl 50 claws/regen,and i didnt like it at all.
not that i am a regular pvp player but i dropped in once in a while before i13 and had fun [being killed mostly] and even won sumtimes.
now my scrappy feels like it is broken, REGEN ?! ahem...
so i tryed pvp when i13 went live and the times ive bin in RV there wasnt even 1 pvp player...
please change it back and make a "i13 pvp area" for the peeps that like this broken pvp...?
i must agree with Mothers Love on the rest of it.
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A Grandville PvP zone would be cool
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Hope this doesn't happen, Grandville is pants.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Yep - the way mezz protection works, attackive toggles, damage resistance, surpression, diminishing heals - has sounded a death knell for the PvP in this game.
Effectively rad is now next to useless in the arena because it relies on EF and RI being on the target. Now anyone can drop my rad toggles by hitting me with a mezz.
If I thought cold corrs were tough for me before, I dread to think how tough they will be now.
i13 is a major step backwards for PvP. Thats the first time I have said this. I didn't think the changes in i13 would be as bad as people made out. I was wrong. Testing this last night in the arena proved this to me.
There have been a list of improvements suggested by the player community as long as your arm for well over 2 years now. They have done some of these like the selectable arena maps - but the ones that the Dev's have come up with on their own are bad and should not have been implemented. Which group of players actually wanted these changes that they have made? None that I know of.
The problem in, the Dev's have got an idea from nowhere that what players want to make pvp more accessable to the masses is to make it easier and dumbed down. That isn't the case. A bit of balance between the builds and AT's is what was needed - focusing on individual powers, rather than changing the format and core of pvp itself.
@Sweet Chilli
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The problem in, the Dev's have got an idea from nowhere that what players want to make pvp more accessable to the masses is to make it easier and dumbed down. That isn't the case. A bit of balance between the builds and AT's is what was needed - focusing on individual powers, rather than changing the format and core of pvp itself.
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Dual builds, Pain Domination and the -range from taunt would've fixed 90% of the problems. All the other stuff added was a total waste.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
(QR)
This post is meant to be some feedback on how PvP gameplay with a heavily slotted Inv/SS/Energy tank has been affected by I13. It is not aimed at anyone in the thread, it is merely meant to provide some data (hopefully useful) for the developers. I should note that I have not altered my I12 build yet: I am putting together a new one with significantly higher defense and some minor power changes, which should hopefully perform better.
If requested I can post the Mids data block for my I12 build.
Build performance in I13 PvP
The mechanic changes introduced in I13 PvP have in most cases favoured my chosen character. Examples of this are:
1. My main character, Inv/SS/Energy tank was not very affected by the diminishing returns mechanic except in one significant area, which is S/L resistance (90% PvE, 53.6% PvP). This is likely a consequence of the layered defenses in Invulnerability, together with an attempt on my part to have a well-rounded build that doesn't rely on, for example, very high recharge. So relatively speaking, the build got stronger in most cases. The exception is S/L damage opponents who have gone from harmless to, in some cases, dangerous if I'm unable to manouver.
2. The Invulnerability set was improved with some extra resistances (region of 4% against all except psionic, after slotting), slow resistance, def debuff resistance, endurance drain resistance, et.c. These have had very minor effect in PvP, with the exception of the removal of the Unyielding defense debuff. Having roughly 22% defense with one opponent in melee range is sufficient to reduce most opponents net ToHit from the cap at 95%.
3. Even with the reduction of the ToHit bonus in Focused Accuracy, Rage still has sufficient amounts of ToHit after slotting (I'm using two lvl 52 HOs) to achieve 60-80% NetToHit against Super-Reflex / Ninjutsu opponents when Focused Accuracy is running and they are not using their Tier 9. If it is running, common net chance to hit values for my attacks are in the 20-35% region.
I have some global accuracy boni from IOs, and no Kismet unique.
Before I13, I would always have capped NetToHit against SR or Nin outside of their Tier 9, with which my NetToHit was floored.
4. Given the change to Tough to affect all damage types, and the addition of psionic resistance to Temp Invulnerability, all resistances are roughly within the 40% - 55% bracket. In case of fire, cold and psionic damage this is partly due to IOs.
Playstyle changes due to new I13 PvP mechanics
My experiences so far is that on the whole, my playstyle has not been affected much.
There are however the following exceptions:
1. Mezzes are useful for dropping offensive toggles on my opponent, but not much more. Handclap sees much less use for this reason as even slotted the stun is insignificant. Previously a common tactic I employed relied on ambushing squishies from above to stun them for 10 seconds, allowing me time to work them over. It -has- however been useful in I13 PvP due to the knockback, given the increased vulnerability to such among Willpower and Invulnerability Brutes in particular. I knocked one Willpower brutes backward into a drone outside the hero base on one occasion. Also, when being attacked by more than one stalker it can usually send at least one of them backward.
2. Dangerous targets have now altered significantly. The only non-brute opponent so far to give me significant trouble are Thermals, as they kill my recovery. When they show up, it's either pop Geas, blue inspirations or fly away. This is however in marked contrast to I12, where mezzes, slows and debuffs were exceedingly dangerous. Due to the now high damage ranged attacks available to me, Laser Beam Eyes (full Apocalypse set) and the veteran Nemesis Staff, I was able to take out a Spider that lacked heals while standing still and using only these two attacks. In another fight with a Dark Melee / Willpower brute (not fully slotted) I found I couldn't last in melee due to his heal and regeneration as I was slowly being worn down: flying out of melee range, I could however slowly whittle him down with ranged attacks while his Gloom failed to do the same to me.
On the whole however, Superstrength brutes have gone from the lowest end of the threat scale to one of the largest ones. This is a direct effect of the S/L resistance reduction. I have managed to win against some, although against an IO:d, well-slotted SS/Wp brute I will be at a distinct disadvantage. I get worn down by them even with Unstoppable up, which I commonly end up using after the first 30 seconds. I should note that the only enhancement in Unstoppable is a Res/Rech IO, which is my old I12 slotting.
3. Due to Diminishing Returns, surviving an attack by more than three players is now much more difficult as powers like Unstoppable, Eye of the Magus and Elusive Mind will not protect you as much. Excessive inspiration popping is also not as efficient as it used to be. I find that I'm usually capable of holding my own, and occasionally win, against two opponents without resorting to temporary powers or inspirations. I had a duel in RV against two regeneration Stalkers and just barely managed to take them out. The fight was incidentally one of the most fun I've had in a long time, mainly because it was so even. Whether I should be able to take on two Stalkers with a fully IO:d tank and win can be up for debate though. I can say that it wasn't easy though, and that I had to play proactively by starting the fight in Unstoppable and Eye of the Magus. I suspect that with a purely reactive playstyle I would not have lasted. As it was, there was still one stalker standing when Unstoppable dropped making the fight require a crash recovery. Total length of the fight was roughly four minutes.
Some more specific feedback now:
Combat Attributes
It is difficult to see how much a character is affected by diminishing returns in the Combat Attributes. Adding raw totals before DR is applied within paranthesis, or in a tooltip, would be nice.
Proc damage unresisted
Finally, in a few tests in RV the purple Hold proc, Unbreakable Constraint: Smashing damage, seemed to cause unresisted damage unlike the purple damage procs in Hecatomb and Apocalypse. This was checked by switching on and off resistance armours for the relevant damage type, and seeing whether the extra damage changed for the procs.
Knockback for Inv,Wp and Elec
I have to confess I am somewhat confused as to what sets can be knocked back/up. Invulnerability and Willpower both have their knockback protection significantly reduced by Diminishing Returns, from 10 to 3.5 for Unyielding (according to the Combat Attributes). I am not certain whether the knockback resistance in Unyielding functions at all in PvP now. I do know my character gets a trip skyward if hit with KO blow and Unstoppable is not running.
However, Electricity Armour brutes are not affected by knockback/up as easily as Invulnerability and Willpower. Both my Handclap and KO blow fail to knock them around. An Electricity Armour brute I chatted with said that she had roughly 15 knockback protection from Grounded, after Diminishing Returns. That doesn't seem to rhyme with the base value of roughly 15 knockback protection indicated by the power information window.
For reference, I have neither Handclap nor KO blow slotted for knockback/up.
Hibernate
Concept-wise, it seems strange that a Stalker can Hibernate and while in Hibernate fade from view. Together with the great piece of ice he/she's encased in. I am not certain of the mechanics, but could Hibernate be made to add visibility while it is active without having a detrimental effect on Stalker performance? I do not mind the Stalker instantly rehiding once the ice breaks, it is just odd that a large block of ice can fade from view completely - it breaks immersion.
Additionally, you already always know when and where the ice breaks since there are many small pieces of ice being spread over the ground when it happens.
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The problem in, the Dev's have got an idea from nowhere that what players want to make pvp more accessable to the masses is to make it easier and dumbed down. That isn't the case. A bit of balance between the builds and AT's is what was needed - focusing on individual powers, rather than changing the format and core of pvp itself.
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The devs did know what was happening they just decided to push this idea through anyway.
I dont know how many times iv read "i dont pvp cos i dont like pvp, not because its broke" type posts, hundreds.
The EXISTING pvp'ers asked for ballance, and as Rent said, pain domination would have gone a good way towards that.
But suddenly it was decided that bringing pvp to the masses was worth the bulk of an issue basically.
And it failed and its always going to fail because people playing this game dont want to pvp in the most part.
How long is that penny going to take to drop.
If they want to bring PvP to the masses then make all the zones pvp zones where you can kill your own side as it were.
And have it so that when you get killed you drop 1 level and xp get deducted!
That would be fantastic! Groups of lvl 50's chasing lvl 1's all over between their missions!
@Sweet Chilli
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If they want to bring PvP to the masses then make all the zones pvp zones where you can kill your own side as it were.
And have it so that when you get killed you drop 1 level and xp get deducted!
That would be fantastic! Groups of lvl 50's chasing lvl 1's all over between their missions!
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Obviously an insane idea from the Chilli there 
However, an "opt-in" pvp system in RWZ would be fun ( if it was still i12 rules )
I think atlas park etc wouldn't benefit from it for storyline reasons but I see no reason why co-op zones shouldn't have opt-in pvp on a timer, perhaps with a better drop rate if you are pvp-flagged.
Fahie
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I dont know how many times iv read "i dont pvp cos i dont like pvp, not because its broke" type posts, hundreds.
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Right, I've never liked PvP because it is broke.
There you go, I went in on a Claws/SR in the early days. It's always broke. Even if you punch every figure into Excel its broke. Dr Rock and Arcanaville will tell you its broke.
Broke and need of fix.
I'd like a new "Grandville" to be a new PvP zone to give you guys the rules you want. No PvE, no badges just for PvP only.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I see no reason why co-op zones shouldn't have opt-in pvp on a timer, perhaps with a better drop rate if you are pvp-flagged.
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Because Vanguard will ban your butt if you start infighting on duty
DCUO and CO will never see my money. The Citygame will keep seeing my money for as long as I keep enjoying it
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I'd like a new "Grandville" to be a new PvP zone to give you guys the rules you want. No PvE, no badges just for PvP only.
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I'd like them to fix the lag in the normal Grandville before they start worrying about a new one that will be as empty as the rest of the pvp zones.
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That would be fantastic! Groups of lvl 50's chasing lvl 1's all over between their missions!
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OMG that sounds fun.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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That would be fantastic! Groups of lvl 50's chasing lvl 1's all over between their missions!
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OMG that sounds fun.
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And at level 1 you should start off as a fat ginger kid in shorts!
@Sweet Chilli
Do you also get a "surrender lunch money" temp power?
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Do you also get a "surrender lunch money" temp power?
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I like the way you are thinking Marq!
@Sweet Chilli
We all agreed after a couple of fights that /sr is much better now. /sr is basically all about luck really though isnt it.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!