Why have surpressionj at all? Why not let people fight at full speed and run away if they need to at full speed?
They were worried about kiting which isn't something to worry about IMHO. If you have a blaster running at full pelt towards your and you don't have your attack queued up them thats your problem. You can kite them, they can kite you - all is equal.
@Sweet Chilli
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Why have surpressionj at all? Why not let people fight at full speed and run away if they need to at full speed?
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To slow down the combat.
ps. Im not interested in champions. Im rather waiting DC universe online which is one of two games im currently excited about. And I dont get excited often.
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Why have surpressionj at all? Why not let people fight at full speed and run away if they need to at full speed?
They were worried about kiting which isn't something to worry about IMHO. If you have a blaster running at full pelt towards your and you don't have your attack queued up them thats your problem. You can kite them, they can kite you - all is equal.
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That's an easy question to answer.
It's because cry baby PvE'ers couldn't be bothered with practising at PvP and moaned for years that PvP was broken. Now the devs have given them it on a plate. The end.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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Only had a small tester in RV with my pve build on ultimate damz and gotta agree i LIKE the changes. I wont ever be a hardcore pvper but least now im more inclined to pop in once in a while.
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This sums up why PvP'ers are all leaving...the devs have changed PvP so that PvE'ers will "pop in now and again" but by doing that they have made the people that actually PvP on a daily basis cancel their subs and move on to differant games....good thinking mmmm? 
# Easy for all™ - Is not rewarding as PvP endgame, Life is not fair - It drives us to adapt and excel.
# Fair and Accessible for all™ as NorCal's new PvP ethic has spectacularly backfired. Issue 13 PvP is just slower and blander... - sorry, but it is. It feels like more chance and less skill as far as your individual team contribution goes.
#Instead of genericising everything to be fair 'n' balanced, the devs should be embracing the individual strengths,weaknesses and diversity of the archetypes to make PvP fast paced and exciting.
#If it is their Intention to introduce more people to PvP then introduce a sliding scale of Nerfdom to help beginners in the beginner PvP zones, but leave unrestricted High-end PvP alone.
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leave unrestricted High-end PvP alone.
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Epic quote.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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leave unrestricted High-end PvP alone.
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Epic quote.
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I fear... too late :<
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
i agree with a lot thats been said in this thread, maybe cryptic leaving was a sure sighn that ncsoft would maybe do a star wars galaxy on us and congrats on doing so, i havnt played cox for a while now wasnt really planing on leaving but i have nothing to play for now all the people i played the game with are gone. so maybe if anyone from champions online is reading this maybe its a good time to invest in some ex-cox players you will find theres lots hanging about u could use issue 13 to your advantage 
I think ppl hold too much hope for Champions Online.....
Cryptic will fail their customers again tbh.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
Overall I like the thinking behind it. Perhaps I will PvP more when I am in a team of people that fancy it.
I never found it balanced and somethings have to be done to balance it. Its not finished in changing yet. Somethings are better data mined live and afterwards you might find that somethings that you miss may get reverted back because of a newer and better change.
Ultimately the Devs have a goal with creating a game and the game may have to go to dark places to achieve it.
New zones and arena settings for the people who liked it how it was, is a great idea. I just wouldn't put anything like badges in it. As all the old ones have badges in them designed to have humble bite sized pve players wonder in them and get a taste of pvp that isn't so one sided, a new zone would be better.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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It's because cry baby PvE'ers couldn't be bothered with practising at PvP and moaned for years that PvP was broken. Now the devs have given them it on a plate. The end.
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Hmmm. I can only imagine you have, and never had, any real interest in enticing PvE players to PvP with comments like that.
From my perspective:
1. Im not entering PvP until they nerf Phase Shift powers. Which, I understand, they do indeed intend to.
2. I have never, and still do not, buy into the mythology that Skill > Build in PvP. Build is paramount IMO. A lot of people bandy around the "fact" that skill is the only vital thing in PvP like it was a self-evident proposition. Its not.
If anything, it looks to me like new PvP is proportionally less about build and more about skill.
Please note: Proportionally. It may (or may not) be the case that Skill is, on an absolute level, more or less important.
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It's because cry baby PvE'ers couldn't be bothered with practising at PvP and moaned for years that PvP was broken. Now the devs have given them it on a plate. The end.
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Hmmm. I can only imagine you have, and never had, any real interest in enticing PvE players to PvP with comments like that.
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I and all the other PvP'ers are always happy when someone new wants to get into PvP. We offer advice, knowledge and even tips and hints to these new players, not much more we can do. Except maybe let them kill us?
If players want to PvP then they will do and shouldn't need enticing. If they start to PvP and they're always getting killed so quit soon after, moaning that xyz is overpowered or saying they only lost because they haven't got IO's without contemplating it's because they aren't very good at PvP (even though they can solo an AV) and demanding things get changed so they can get a kill will result in negative posts from the guys who have worked hard to get where they are.
Whether it's the right build or skill that makes a good PvP'er in your eyes, both are easy to achieve with invested time. Something an MMO is all about.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
Had a poke aroudn RV earlier today with Mesmer, Supression feels like wading through treacle but it made things fairer for the Brute that was trying to kill us.
Seriously though fix Blaster damage jesus christ.
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2. I have never, and still do not, buy into the mythology that Skill > Build in PvP. Build is paramount IMO. A lot of people bandy around the "fact" that skill is the only vital thing in PvP like it was a self-evident proposition. Its not.
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Seconded. My opinion on this has never changed. This is a RPG, hence the same curse applies to it as all other similar games.
I play other games if I want something related to skill. Those games have no character progression of any kind.
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If players want to PvP then they will do and shouldn't need enticing. If they start to PvP and they're always getting killed so quit soon after, moaning that xyz is overpowered or saying they only lost because they haven't got IO's without contemplating it's because they aren't very good at PvP (even though they can solo an AV) and demanding things get changed so they can get a kill will result in negative posts from the guys who have worked hard to get where they are.
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Not every PvPer will give a newcomer the same experience and some concepts turn out to be a characters with a squash racquet whilst someone else has an AK47 no matter what they did. I could of played the insp game in PvP but I never "really" did but even if everyone loaded up on the right insps the proportional difference remained the same. Different characters had different levels of burst, then people added movement, some peoples builds were more pvp than pve and then some either played kiss chase or ganked the lone wanderer in a pvp zone. I come across more opportunist PvPers than anything else who wait for the player to be say low on hp fighting Statesman but have to say that's playing as intended so I don't mind it. I just can't get the team fighting Statesman to turn on the heroes and mash em up (cos that's what I want to do).
Build was confused with skill too much. I think most PvPers wouldn't entertain some characters in PvP although in team PvP there is potential for success of most builds from the result of what the rest of the team can do.
It'll take me no more than 15 mins to min/max some pvp characters, 5 mins to learn how to pvp with it and I'd be "a pvper". I can't say that for most other sets. I could then go out and persistently beat someone up over and over again the same way but then that would offer me nothing as there is nothing to learn and if its persistently quick, nothing for them as there is normally no fun in it.
Even on a test server an 8 man team of PvPers will see a lone person, 1/4 health amongst npcs testing something in particular as it is a test server and the 8 man team of PvPers will test their ganking skills. Only there is no skill really is there.
Personally I think that the dual build system addressed 80% of the problem so a revertion back in some aspects could happen.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Build was confused with skill too much. I think most PvPers wouldn't entertain some characters in PvP although in team PvP there is potential for success of most builds from the result of what the rest of the team can do.
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I have to disagree with this. There's plenty of PvP'ers who use power sets that were deemed to be poor performers and still killed everything in sight.
TG's AR/Dev blaster comes to mind.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
Well, finally got some time to test the new pvp system Friday night.
Went to RV for an hour or so with different toons, and did some arena Duels with a SG member who was also a keen pvper.
Oh .. my ... gawd! .. What have they done?!
Positive points :
None
Ambivilent points :
Movement suppression not as bad as thought. Fortunatas look good now.
Negative points :
Heal nerf
Debuff nerf
Defense nerf ( /sr is just awful now. Since when should an unbuffed villain CONSISTENTLY hit through elude+2 purples ? )
Damage nerf to blasters ( inferno? 350 points? what? ) and pets. PA so rubbish now.
Hold nerf.
There's more, but I don't want to go on too long or I will feel ill. Ok, the above is based on MY pvp toons but playing against people who are complaining just as much when they WIN a duel.
So .. that's me out of pvp for now. Tactics seem to be out of the window, bascially you stand there and mash buttons and hope that you win. Yes, an oversimplification I'm sure, but the pzazz is definately gone.
And no, this isn't a "how dare you nerf my 1 billion inf build" post, I had just as much fun with my SO slotted rubbish fire/ice blaster before the changes. Now it's just boring.
Fahie
Edit ... just spotted the post about pre-i13 arena options.
Please please please please
I'll even say that zonal pvp is still fun if this arrives
Fahie
For me the PVP changes arent fun, I dislike the supression and
most of the Damage changes.
I will still PVP tho, mainly because im yet to find a game I like more, also because theres a load of gobshites on freedumb id liek to eventually beat
Just liek to point something out from one of your posts Fahie, not a personal attack just something ive experienced different.
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Defense nerf ( /sr is just awful now. Since when should an unbuffed villain CONSISTENTLY hit through elude+2 purples ? )
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I have a soft capped fire/sr brute on freedom, atm its not a PVP build however, with elusivity its almost unkillable. hardly anything hits it.
I agree..... Defence seems epic now. I couldn't hit an MM inside PFF with my ice blaster at all. Not even just once with streak breaker kicking in.
Can't imagine SR being any different.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
See that's odd because I could hit Mesmer's FF Defender through PFF without too much issue. =/
well, I'm going on the basis that my spines/sr was basically untouchable with elude plus a couple of purples pre-i13.
No, not purpled, but good IO sets, and everything from SR.
In RV, I was having to run and hit aid self even with elude on. That NEVER happened before unless I was massively debuffed, or under attack from a large group/well played small group.
Arena checks confirmed, SR is massively underpowered now for scrappers 
Maybe defence is hitting different AT's in different ways? Same way damage is hitting blasters worse than defenders.
Fahie
Never been a PvPer myself because probably the only way I have to win a PvP match, either in the old and new system, is if I were given an "I win" button (and still not 100% sure), but after reading this thread, I see my feelings regarding the new PvE content, specially the Merit System, translate to a certain extent to PvP, and Shockwave pretty much nailed it, "handing it in a plate".
I find I13 somehow insulting, Shields set strikes to me as a bunch of [censored] for players who don't give a toss about decent efefctive gaming but hey, they can roll a Captain America, the way Merits are implemented gives me the mental image of a donkey following a carrot on a stick while the owner of the carrot is cracking at the donkey's expense and for what I've read here, PvP doesn't seem to get better treated.
I didn't PvP significantly before, and won't do it now either since it's not really what I enjoy on this game and what I used to enjoy prior to I13 is now a boring grind which I am not in the mood to pay for, so here I am waiting for my sub to run out.
Anyway, sorry for the rant and hope to see you people in Champions and after that in TOR, just wanted to point out that you guys hit the nail in this thread, specially Londoner, Merits, Day Jobs and all that were not needed, more TF's and new content was, unfortunately the devs reply to that seems to be the MA where players can pay devs and do their job at the same time.
Gah, this went longer than I anticipated, sorry for the rant.