Maybe it's designed more for team PvP rather thasn duels?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Too early to say imo.
So far my experiences have been with my widow and a fort build I just made today with the intention of making it as blastery as possible (yay dual builds!). It was also in a zone with a lot of duels going on and no teams so hardly the ideal conditions.
Finding tanks a bit surprising though.
Might arrange a rookie pvp adventure next week to give things a good test and get more people involved.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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I have no idea why the dev's think a blaster should be able stand face to face with a brute and win.
[/ QUOTE ]How was this any different before i13 on average?
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I have no idea why the dev's think a blaster should be able stand face to face with a brute and win.
[/ QUOTE ]How was this any different before i13 on average?
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't talking about a one on one, i was talking about the blaster and brute standing still 2ft away from each other. Very different from pre i13
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
I would like to comment on this but when i went into RV the first time it was empty.
I gave it another go abit later and aside from the tank and blaster farming turrets its was empty.
So only comment i can give is where are the huge numbers of people this was ment to bring into pvp? so far for defiant anyway its the same as always.
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I would like to comment on this but when i went into RV the first time it was empty.
I gave it another go abit later and aside from the tank and blaster farming turrets its was empty.
So only comment i can give is where are the huge numbers of people this was ment to bring into pvp? so far for defiant anyway its the same as always.
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Those two and you? That's the entire Defiant population, so looks like the changes are working. 
Get yourself and the Smurfs over to Onion. We might as well have all the PvP'ers in one place. I'm sure we can find a zone for all 10 of us.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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Get yourself and the Smurfs over to Onion. We might as well have all the PvP'ers in one place. I'm sure we can find a zone for all 10 of us.
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nah you guys come to us, unless your feart 
On topic: i think the changes havnt hurt blasters etc as much as i feared but theyv seriously hampered things like emps, cold corrs and support toons to the point of near uselessness
I don't understand all the fuss really. As I'm aqlways chucking out a hold or a blast then I have always been fighting under surpression anyways.
I don't think in a fight I am ever not attacking every 2 seconds. Even in between heals.
@Sweet Chilli
Go go killing RTTC for WPers!
Whilst im waiting to see the Patch Notes. I certainly believe this is not the end for PvP. Yeah i know im not meant to be here... I popped on in amoungst the crashes and played some PvP. I was pleasantly surprised.
Its a change and all the older players could see it as a "killer" but thats to the PvP they know.
Its gives the ability to previous unkillable situations to a possible way through. I can see this change fairing much better for team fights.
I was pleasently surprised to find a stalker using Hibernation. As well as shocked at first. But its clear that the devs are balancing and not nerfing.As well as giving scrappers alternative to using the Body Mastery you can use other epics which give you the +acc and +perception.
Duel builds speak for themselfs although means you gotta work harder to build your toon twice and pay twice over(well since i looked on test anyhow)..
Im not sure about the KB situation i kept falling on my [censored]
with all my toons.
Theres alot of changes in i13 designed to change PvP for the better. IMO its good,
Vetrans may be put of at first. but the teams that you were once unable to even get a kill against should see a better chance of at least one player being able to kill something.
I see this being a much less soul destroying PvP as its has less god powers!
Keep your chins up guys PvP has only just started!
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Its a change and all the older players could see it as a "killer" but thats to the PvP they know.
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Hey - I'm just about the oldest player here and I have stated that I don't see it as a killer.
Retract that statement!
@Sweet Chilli
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Its a change and all the older players could see it as a "killer" but thats to the PvP they know.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey - I'm just about the oldest player here and I have stated that I don't see it as a killer.
Retract that statement!
[/ QUOTE ]
Its still incorrect. I couldn't see it as a killer. The way I was brought up and my genetics means that its not possible. The way the world is is the only way the world could have turned out you see. No way to prove otherwise but thats determinism for you.
@Sweet Chilli
Well ... I'll give the changes a go ( see you in SC chilli ) but am fairly apprehensive about the modifications.
I'll keep an open mind, but the movement suppression sounds horrible to me 
TPFoe nerf looks horrible too.
Fahie
but the to hit debuff is so massive! 
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but the to hit debuff is so massive!
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and so was the hit to buffs, thus evening it out most likely
I agree with the sentiment that the Issue 13 PvP changes have not broken PvP entirely.
I gave PvP a bash last night and afterwards was thinking about the experience as I drifted off to sleep (as only those of us obsessed enough with 'City of'/Builds/PvP can appreciate). 
- I'll start with an analogy to begin with to try and summerise before going into more detail.
"Its as if a big dollop of smeary Vasaline has been wiped over the lens and clearcut experience that was 'old-school' PvP".
I won my first 1v1 fight easily, came within a whisker of winning the 2nd (but luck swung it the other way) and ended up just losing. And then an old Nemesis showed up in RV and I fought him, his ArachnoBot and patron pets and over a long fight it came to a stalemate with the fight going both ways several times for us both.
So a great first experience then? -Yes !!! [/i](but strangely enough also)[/i]... No - not because of my personal winnings but for the overall experience of PvP.
In old school PvP you are driven to perfect your build through your Nemesis' you encounter on your toon, you know the characters you fear!... the ones that always seem to get you, because they have worked hard on a tried and tested strategy that works for them, whether that be a Mastermind's trapping and devastating onslaught, A Dominator's mezzing/holding, a Brute's punishing frontal onslaught or a Stalker's stealth, cunning and devastating assassination.
Now, no matter what tried 'n' tested attack-chain strategy you relied on previously, the rule book is thrown out of the window. You will not be as effective as you once were in the name of a 'better and fairer PvP'.
Its this genericising that is my fear for the overall PvP experience. While it makes things fairer It does take out some of the thrill of Old School PvP. Things like Perma-Domination did need to be addressed as that was ridiculous in PvP, but the new fairer blander PvP needs to be tweaked some more because The Devs have pulled another Hami in some respects with this redux, They have followed a path that while it levels the playing field, I can't help but feel It also loses some of the unique flavour that Old School PvP had.
This is core to the problem for me;
"How do you level the playing field when the Archetypes were never designed to be equal in the first place?" - they were designed to complement each other in PvE and they have been struggling to find a system that translates the Archetypes into the 'Bolt-On' addition of PvP ever since.
Fights are now longer and less decisive, And if you take the extremes of Empath and Brute or Blaster and Mastermind, how are you supposed to stand toe to toe with them?, Defenders are not suppossed to outdamage other ATs in general, but we ARE supposed to have better defence, therefore I do not understand the concept of Diminishing returns outside of a team, I barely understand it in concept inside a team yet alone outside. I'm trying hard to think of a set that has been harder hit than the healing sets such as Empathy, Personally I don't want to outdamage blasters as that is utter nonsence conceptually - but i do want to be be able to protect myself and other through my healing in the primary set. If they wish to nerf the team buffs... fine, (if they really have to), I agree diminishing returns on those are perfectly acceptable, but not being able to heal yourself as effectively while other ATs don't suffer the same crippling primary set effects is ridiculous if you ask me.
I'm not querying this solely as being in the Empath business, I realise most of the ATs have similar serious issues with the new changes, some of them not making any conceptual sense whatsover.
Personally I would of kept the old system but boosted Defence in all classes so if you wanted to protect yourself/harm someone - you had to go to the extreme in slotting it to break through. yes, It would still not be perfect but PvP will still have a flavour to it and not have the genericised smeary mushyness PvP appears to have now.
I do not mind losing a fight because someone outsmarts me through a tactical strategy (In fact it inspires me), I do not mind losing a fight because a certain AT may overpower me with their damage output - but I do feel disappointed on losing a fight because the new rules make a fight go on so long that it is basically whomever runs out of stamina first - that (as I heard a youngster complaining last night) "Suxx donkeywang" - and while I cannot condone his language I cannot help but understand his frustration.
The PvP is not broken, far from it but it does need a tiny bit more tweakage back the way it came to re-inject some of the personality into the Archetypal clashes in my opinion, because at the moment it feels like playing with the wrong prescription glasses on. Less defined, less frightening, less brutal, less challenging (unless it is tweaked more).
Its a different animal, but one I hope to perservere with in the foreseeable future.
Have you seen the powers that have been added to the villain epics now? Villains will be much stronger in pvp which I think they needed to be tbh.
@Sweet Chilli
The problem is pvp has been changed for those who dont want to max out there toons. I like many other spent loads of time and inf getting both my stalker and blaster to the best they can be but now this works against them.
Another problem is a blaster standing still in a pvp zone should not be able to take a AS from a stalker and still be standing with almost half health, this takes away the whole point of a stalker and the one advantage they had, this new system to seems to reward the lazy and the cry babys, you know the ones who come on here moaning that stalkers are over powered and its not fair that they AS me.
The other side of this most blasters are now a bunch of girls in pvp there damage is just a joke, again rewarding those who dont want to put time in to inprove there pvp skills after they have been killed by a blaster back in i12
There to many things wrong with these changes i could write for ages about them but the main issue is pvp has been dumbed down for the lazy, there is still no balance as what was once strong is weak and what was weak is now strong so the scales have tiped the other way.
Im sure it wont be long though for anyone who is still trying to pvp to work out what is the new fotm and once they do i bet a billion pounds that people will be back on here moaning again that xyz is over powered.
Im sure in the long run some of the people just wont be happy until pvp is reduced to standing in rv slapping each other around the face with a wet lettuce.
Yes ok this post is not positive but im one unhappy pvper now.... actualy can i even call myself that now as until some more work is done on this system i wont be pvping.
I agree with shock I spent months on my spine/regen to get it to how he is now and then i go into RV and no more perma Dull Pain my regen with IH ON!! went from 196HP/sec to 89HP/sec .... Mmm what a waste of time...
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Another problem is a blaster standing still in a pvp zone should not be able to take a AS from a stalker and still be standing with almost half health, this takes away the whole point of a stalker and the one advantage they had, this new system to seems to reward the lazy and the cry babys, you know the ones who come on here moaning that stalkers are over powered and its not fair that they AS me.
The other side of this most blasters are now a bunch of girls in pvp there damage is just a joke, again rewarding those who dont want to put time in to inprove there pvp skills after they have been killed by a blaster back in i12
[/ QUOTE ]To be blunt about it, both of those jobs you've mentioned could effectively 1-shot some players in the old PvP system, which doesn't take any massive amount of slotting to pull off. Between Energy melee stalkers using Assassin's Strike and perfectly accurate blasters using Inferno, they were basically the kings of PvP. It's not like stalkers were handed a raw deal on defense either. Given almost the same secondary sets as scrappers, they have ample ways to dodge attacks or heal lost HP. And blasters often pick Hibernate, which is about as cheap as self-regens come.
I think PvP needed a drastic overhaul to get people of out the 'ideal AT' mindset they locked themselves into. You shouldn't have to pick exactly archetype, with exactly the right powersets in order to enjoy PvP without becoming a stain on the tarmac. In order to actually populate these zones it needed to be opened up a little, because lets face it, they've been mostly dead except for perhaps RV and even then often one-sided.
I'm looking forward to trying a multitude of other AT's and seeing how well they can PvP. My newly created Pain Dominator will find it interesting im certain
Characters:
The Heroic Mary Grace (50)
The Mystical Thunderspark (50)
The Candy-loving Little Jenny (50)
Not wanting to, or not having the time to farm yourself to glory doesn't make someone lazy, some people simply dislike that style of play.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
After some fighting in union RV, I have to say that I like how the changes affect large-scale zone pvp. Since people dont die instantly its more enjoyable as a whole and feels more immersive too. Suppression seems to work ok as well, although I noticed lots of people didnt like it.
However, Im sure serious 1v1 is going to be blown to hell. And I wont take pvp seriously anymore.
I know it's only been a few hours since it's release but what do you guys think to the changes with the first impression?
I still think it's the end of PvP. I have no idea why the dev's think a blaster should be able stand face to face with a brute and win. Just silly.
So what do you guys think?
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle