Eden Trial - 10 mins ??

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Its still a challenge, just for 11 minutes.

6 lucks instead of ambrosia and skipping mobs is hardly an exploit is it?

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this this this.

Snow, I ask you only to PuG the eden trial, and ask *them* to complete it in 10 mins.

We're not talking some mass exploiting Farmer Corp. we're talking a relatively good group of excellent players, who know what they're doing. As was mentioned earlier, *all* the TFs succumb to this (i've ghosted a manticore in uner 40 minutes)

Times change, sadly. And in that light, yes, I agree with you...the timers are a bit outlandish if it *can* be done in 10 minutes. but it doesn't *HAVE* to be done in 10 mins, and most PuGs *need* that timer

TF's can be done quickly, so make them harder?

Why don't we buff the hell out of AV's then, they can be solo'd be a select few. Same logic.

DJ and I (and Spawus with someone else) Have Duo'd the LGTF, that needs 8 people.

Did we use an exploit? Should we use 8 players because it was designed for them? We did it for the challenge. By your logic Snow, because we didn't do it as intended, should we be at the sharp end of the 'you are exploitng the game!' stick?

Would someone be so kind as to record a team doing the Eden trial in 10 mins? (or there abouts). Would be interesting.

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TF's can be done quickly, so make them harder?

Why don't we buff the hell out of AV's then, they can be solo'd be a select few. Same logic.

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That's the problem really.

AV's, TF's, whatever. Eventually they become far to easy for some people, but they can't make them harder because some others still find it challenging.

I do think they need to add a harder difficulty though.

When I hear of people completing Eden in so short of a time, you know what I think?

Cool, those people put thought into their tactics, selected their insps and took some other skilled players into doing this TF in such a way. It brings more rare recipies onto the market for people who can't afford to do a TF over and over in the chances of one dropping.

Would that take away anything from me completing Eden in my own time in my own way? Hell no. There's lots of things in life that people can do faster than others. If they raised the difficulty of it, is that punishing the people doing it quickly, or the people who do it in the normal time and then have to take longer because of this difficulty raise?

They could make the Crystal Titan have insanely high accuracy, but then that punishes -everyone-.

Leave it how it is, I say. The people completing it fast for recipe chances can do it, the people taking their time can do it.

Well the simple solution:

Bigger rewards for Positron TF That will make the farmers flock towards this eagerly avoided TF and maybe i can finally finish it on my toons as well

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Well the simple solution:

Bigger rewards for Positron TF That will make the farmers flock towards this eagerly avoided TF and maybe i can finally finish it on my toons as well

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Still fast enough, could easily get that down to less than 90 minutes with 50's.

what they have done is to get half a team of blasters and half a team of debuffers and pack as many defence and resistance inspirations as possible. They don't even need Ambrosia, which makes that part of TF pointless.

They always ask for a Rad. Basically if you are any other ATs (not blasters or Debuffers), you will have a hard time getting into their 10mins team.

They usually run 2 - 3 times each round and 1 - 2 rounds a day. There is even a 'Eden Fast Run' Channel for it.

In my view, they ruin that Trial entirely; it has been exploited so badly that the trial should be suspended pending further improvements.

Or another way to inject some normality and fun back into Eden Trial is to put a 'Kill-All' criteria into the trial. So basically, everything moves in those caves, dies. That should make Eden trial less of a farmland but more of a normal trial.

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Or another way to inject some normality and fun back into Eden Trial is to put a 'Kill-All' criteria into the trial. So basically, everything moves in those caves, dies. That should make Eden trial less of a farmland but more of a normal trial.

[/ QUOTE ]More like make it take forever (or possibly even be impossible) to complete.

If there's really need for a limitation, it should be something sensible like having to defeat 20 greater devoureds.

But IMO, there's no need for even that.

(And no, I've not ran a single Eden speed-run ever).

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what they have done is to get half a team of blasters and half a team of debuffers and pack as many defence and resistance inspirations as possible. They don't even need Ambrosia, which makes that part of TF pointless.

They always ask for a Rad. Basically if you are any other ATs (not blasters or Debuffers), you will have a hard time getting into their 10mins team.

They usually run 2 - 3 times each round and 1 - 2 rounds a day. There is even a 'Eden Fast Run' Channel for it.

In my view, they ruin that Trial entirely; it has been exploited so badly that the trial should be suspended pending further improvements.

Or another way to inject some normality and fun back into Eden Trial is to put a 'Kill-All' criteria into the trial. So basically, everything moves in those caves, dies. That should make Eden trial less of a farmland but more of a normal trial.

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I used a war shade on the last run i did, no mad AT restrictions were used.

And how on earth is doing this quick detracting from your game?

Dont want to do it fast? Good, dont. Take your time.

Why you feel the need to ask for something to be suspended because of how fast it can be done is beyond me.

There is no exploit or cheat involved.

It doesn't detract from my game and I don't really care about it, but I suspect that the Devs will do something about it because it breaks their Risk vs Reward paradigm (Giant Monsters still excluded obviously - I'm sure at some point they'll get around to sorting out the rewards so that defeating a GM is worth slightly more than 2 bosses), just like they did for Croatoa.

the risk v reward in the game is a joke, GMs as zone events are ignored because they are just not worth doing, the hamidon is now univerally ignored because HOs are just not worth it, more easily obtainable on the TFs just like the recipe choice.

Snow this is not an 'exploit' as you call it. No bugs are taken advantage of. It is simply thinking outside the box of 'the normal way'.

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the risk v reward in the game is a joke, GMs as zone events are ignored because they are just not worth doing, the hamidon is now univerally ignored because HOs are just not worth it, more easily obtainable on the TFs just like the recipe choice.

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Well I already mentioned GMs, which we all know are a joke and I agree about Hamidon - they need to increase the rewards for defeating him - but otherwise the Risk vs Reward isn't bad at all.

Remember that most forumites are more knowledgeable about the game and as a result often more skilled than the "average" player and so any discussion of Risk vs Reward needs to take that into account.

10 mins eden trial?
fair enough, good for them, but every eden trial i've been on and done (badgehunters or pug) has been longer and has always been a mixed bag of chars/AT's doing it.
These guys will use a hand picked team of AT's (as has been mentioned many times previously in the posts above) to get it done, and of course tactics.

Case #1: I've been on teams that have failed this trial/tf, because they didn't have the "right" AT's, and your saying it's too easy?...

Case #2: On a pug team i had to go through 3 Ambrosia till the crystal titan went down, but then on another team he was down within one Ambrosia.

Case #3: a couple of weeks ago i did the STF with a completely random pug team (most hadn't done it before), and while we got through the earlier parts at a standard steady pace we hit the familiar wall of the AV's (GW mainly :P ), the only reason we got through it is because of tactics.
Took me 15 mins of almost shouting at them and mass deaths twice, but they got the message and we completed the tf in about 3 hours, but if i wasn't there with the experience of having been on 8 or more STF's, being helped through it by more experienced badgehunters, then that pug team would have quit (Indeed they were planning to do so, before i got a lil sarky with them :B )


So yes well done to these small minority of people (tops 20/30 peeps?) who did it 10 mins, but for the sake of the other 2/300,000+ players on CoH/V leave it as it is.
(close any blatent exploits ofc though. heh)

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Snow this is not an 'exploit' as you call it. No bugs are taken advantage of. It is simply thinking outside the box of 'the normal way'.

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okay, fair enough but that is not how this trial is ment to be completed. Even tho this looks like s a new way of completeing it , it's not as the devs forseen it and i'm sure thier hard worked, thought out trial is being exploited for the recipe hunters. Before recipes came on scene folks would do the trial for a badge, and maybe a nice SO. And complete it at the teams pace not in uberhyperspeed.

IOS and recipes have made SOS not as sought after, and the badge, well seems badges have lost thier appeal to, its all about the recipes and see what can get to stick on AH to charge an arm and leg for inf wise.

Inventions/rare sets have brought the power farmer recipe hunters to the game and made trials like Eden prime target for farming in 10 mins, now that a way has been devised to

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IOS and recipes have made SOS not as sought after

[/ QUOTE ]They never were that. Why would anybody do a trial to get an SO when you can buy all you need from a shop for next to nothing?

Even before some one came up with this particular method, there were plenty of others and it was easily doable in the same time as a "fast katie".

Buy Ambrosia in wents 1st
Taunt the GM's down the holes.

Even before wents, we used to trade ambrosia with our coalition SGs. Even in those pre-recipe pre-wents days we would still take 2 in each to save time.

You could look at it the other way is it "exploiting" to take an 8 man team in on INV, complete it in 30 mins 4 people leave with their recipies and the rest of us spend an hour clearing 8 man spawns for the INF?

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But just like sex its all about the quality of the finish at the end of ummmmm yeah tf/trial i like to go BOOYAAA!!!!

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Oh. Dear. Me.

*shakes head at Damz*

Noob.

I think the current record is 8:54 btw.

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it's not as the devs forseen it and i'm sure thier hard worked, thought out trial is being exploited for the recipe hunters.

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You mean the hard work they put in, so people can play the game they pay for, the way they want to as long as it dosent detract from anyone elses?

Is that the hard work you are talking about?

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it's not as the devs forseen it and i'm sure thier hard worked, thought out trial is being exploited for the recipe hunters.

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You mean the hard work they put in, so people can play the game they pay for, the way they want to as long as it dosent detract from anyone elses?

Is that the hard work you are talking about?

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Exactly, my money, my way of playing.

And anyway as others have said it just increases supply and thus lowers the price of these hard to get recipes anyway. For example LOTG and miracle have dropped 20 mill inf per recipe on WW since the use of this method.

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okay, fair enough but that is not how this trial is ment to be completed.

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I am sorry but who are you to say how a TF/Trial is "ment" to be accomplished?

I agree with the other posts in this thread congratulating the fact that someone/some team has managed put together a relatively well thought of team and set of tactics, to complete a difficult Trial in a record time of +/- 8 minutes.

I myself have done this in under 15 minutes and I thourougly enjoyed the fact we were trying to beat the clock. Missing out some mobs in the way there but still was a great Trial experience.

I think we'll all need to agree to disagree. Each to their own opinion on this matter. Etc. Etc.




/sleep

I'm gonna hop in again on this one. Speaking from personal experience, I am sure that there are people who do this just for the recipie. No doubt about it.

But my SG runs many TF's just because it keeps us closely knit as a group and we have a goal. We usually have all 8 people on any TF we do. Eden, 2nd Respec (that's fun when there are about 40 freak tanks in the last room before the reactor), STF, Synapse, etc. because this is what we happen to enjoy. Having worked together this much we know how far we can push each other as players no matter what toon we are on. We have one player who has a dark/dark defender who can shatter the aggro cap somehow, and drags most of a map back to us. It can become pretty hairy, but the Teamspeak channel is full of banter and chat because this is how we have fun..

In fact for a little while once we went into the hive as a group and starting defeating GM's to see if we could spawn Hami for no other reason than to have fun and get ourselves killed. 2 hours we were there and nothing, he was obviously terrified

Long story short, although some people are abusing this, they're missing out because they are looking at it as a job: "Not a stone tank? Sorry you're not coming in."

A well put together team of almost any setup can get through this, we've done it with WP tanks, Fire tanks (who are our tank of choice for the job) Rad defenders, no defenders, FF defenders, no blasters etc. Anything.

Though the time we tried it with three tanks and a blaster didn't finish as we couldn't kill the mold wall. It was fun! And I think that's what these farmers are missing out on.

Besides, you nerf the hell out of the Eden Trial and the farmers will move on to something else leaving another devestated mission in their wake, and it won't be long until people start complaining about this new mission. At least we know where they are for now.

Again, the only way we do this is a well put together group of players who know what they are doing working together, and maybe one or two others if we can't find all of our "A-team". First time I did it I was on a PUG that insisted on clearing pretty much everything before moving on. It took 3 and a half hours and was duller than dishwater.

Thanks for reading,
Pipe 42