Respect For Other Players In RV - Or Lack Of It
By
Alvan,
Posted on: 2006-11-08 16:33 in Everything about PvP
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone should remember that everyone else has an opinion too and it's not always going to be the same.
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I wanted to sig that, but I've run out of characters 
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I DEMAND A DATAMINE!
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Seventyteenbillion! There, datamine! 
Hmm, I realy should get back to PvPing... or at least leveling some of my more PvP apt toons...
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Right at the risk of getting back on topic, my 2 inf and this might turn into a long one.
Dont usually do this but since I am gonna express some pretty strong opinions a little background on myself and a disclaimer. I am a pretty balannced player I PvE plenty and have my 2 50s and various alts to show for it, I also involve myself in the community and having fun as often as I can. I am now I guess a fairly ardent PvPer and I am often in the zones or the arena, its something different to PvE for me and a good few close mates of mine PvP too and we have a blast mostly. The following are my opinions and experiences not intended to offend anyone but rather to further the disscussion at hand ...
I am pretty much beyond bored with this attitude from the non PvPers in PvP zones. I really fail to get it tbh the warnings are clear and honest from the PvP zone contacts how you can get from
Warning this is a Player v Player zone do not enter unless you are willing to be attacked by other players
to
Warning this is a Player v Player zone But if you want to badge/xp mine you can expect that you wont be attacked and are totally within your rights to get testy and whinge when you are
frankly escapes me.
I have had so many of these experiences that it can begin to do my head in, quick example to illustrate this is from a real experience but no names and these are paraphrased and may be badly remembered
Sirens
-I site a target who is my bounty and my team and I procede to take them down
A: "I am badging dont attack me!"
Me: "You were my bounty sorry but this is a PvP zone"
A: "I am badging dont attack me!"
-This repeats a couple times with A as bounty at one point they offer to give inf if I dont attack, I explain bounty offers rewards that cant just be bought SOs and Strength of Will insps.
-Later same target is my bounty again and that of a teammate I warn the target that they are my bounty to avoid more repeats, we engage and my team win
A: "I am badging dont attack me go kill someone else!!!!"
Me: "You were my bounty!"
A: "You just dont get it do you, dont attack me I am badging!!!"
This sort of thing drives me off my head its ridiculous and tbh I am confused as to how it can happen. Its a PvP Zone for Pete's sake! its all explained.
To those who dont like to PvP:
I respect your choice PvP is not everyones cup of tea and you have the right to not PvP but and I cannot stress this enough never ever under any circumstances enter a PvP Zone and assume you have the right to complain when you are attacked, unless you are being griefed you dont, end of. As an aside if you are being griefed then its likely the "Evil hardcore PvPers" like me who will be first in line to defend you and offer apologies for the behaviour of the idiots that do that sort of thing, Why would we help/defend you? you ask. Because we want you to have good PvP experiences, that way you can come back and more fun can be had by all.
To the OP: I am sad that you had a bad experience but imo you had utterly unrealistic expectations of the zone and had ignored clear and visable warnings about the nature of the Zone, if the devs wanted RV to be a "PvP but only if you feel like it" Zone they would call it one and have a system to opt out of PvP in there, they dont so its free fire, the end. I deeply hope you can contiunue to enjoy CoH but PvP Zones are there for a reason.
Apologies if this post was longwinded but I feel very strongly about this stuff and I am only expressing my own views.
Cheers,
White 
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i agree totally, similarly i hate the people who just sit in their base in sirens despite being the bounty because they want the time badge, i often go there to arrest at hotspots to try and get the zone to heroes, i don't like it when people attack me, generally cos its the npc that finishes me off (lvl 35 character btw so debt annoys me a bit). But i accept it, i agreed to it by entering the zone so i have to live with it, i'll get annoyed if they continualy weaken me for the NPCs to kill me but i just get em back afterwards, lotsa insps from those hotspots 
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If you wanna fight NPCs for exp without being atacked by other players don't enter a PVP zone, its not rocket science
On topic PvP does absolutely nothing for me. I'm not a PvPer and dont like PvP. Not fun for me.
I expect to be looking around the different PvP zones on most of my toons at one time or another.
Now I'll be doing this just to explore, to try out the missions, maybe see if I can find a badge or two.
If any of you you "eeeevil PvP G33kz0rz" attack me... well expect a good kicking (or for me to faceplant).
After all, we can all agree that just because it's a PvP zone, I dont HAVE to be there to PvP right? So long as I just accept the risk of getting jumped and stomped, right?
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After all, we can all agree that just because it's a PvP zone, I dont HAVE to be there to PvP right? So long as I just accept the risk of getting jumped and stomped, right?
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True, but as long as you don't complain that "I'm not PvP'ing, leave me alone" after you're attacked, I wouldn't imagine there would be any problems at all.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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If any of you you "eeeevil PvP G33kz0rz" attack me... well expect a good kicking (or for me to faceplant).
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Rather cute example of sorts I've been in:
I was going around destroying turrets and PvE Enemies in RV on my Mastermind (with a heavy) and was approaching the most-NW turret.
Super Speed using Scrapper runs alongside me, looks at me, I engage bodyguard and wait..... Scrapper runs in and starts to slice at me, robots launch themselves at him and quickly despatch him (due to buffs helping too, oh and a massive heavy).
This happens again with another failed attack after he resparned
It happens again!
Next time, he resumes his attack, for some reason he's harder to hit (I think he took insps... suddenly WAY better!), I die... but still
Was rather funny how persistent he was 
even when I was just sorta minding my own buisness
Chiefette
Now... Last time I was in a PvP zone, I was actually badging... It was Sirens so I knew I'd end up as bounty, but so what?
Inevitably, it happened, and someone went for me. Now, I DID mention to him I was badging, and asked if he could wait just 1 minute whist I grabbed the badge first? He was fine with that! Followed me, I got the badge, THEN we went tooth and nail! It was a fun fight, but as I'm not a PvPer, the inevitable happened and he kicked my rear.
There was no trash talk, and no bad feelings at all! He let me get the badge I was after, and he ended up with his bounty, both happy!
Of course, I got clobbered again getting the other two badges, but I wasn't moaning.
In fact, there was only one instance I can remember where I *DID* have a row with someone over PvP, in Warburg. I'd spent ages getting my scientists, and on the last one, some swine ganked me and took my hard work away. When I asked him if that was REALLY necessary (It was a hero, so my getting a nuke didn't cause him any problems), his answer was, "Cause I felt like it". He didn't want the nuke himself, he just wanted to wreck someone elses fun.
That's the kind of player that really <bleeps!> me off!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone should remember that everyone else has an opinion too and it's not always going to be the same.
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I wanted to sig that, but I've run out of characters .
I DEMAND A DATAMINE!
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The US forums have a 300 character limit. We used to have a 300 character limit on the COV side of the forums and a 200 character limit on the COH side. They upgraded the software (or something) and chose to have a common limit of 200 characters on the EU side.
The US get 300. We get 200.
Personally I think we have reason for complaint.
Edit: I've just sent Bridger an e-mail asking about the difference in signature limits.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
Okay, I have a few things to add here.
First, I think this thread belongs on the PvP and Arena board, so I'm going to move it there.
Second, I've had to remove a large chunk of this thread. Some of this was due to off-topic posts about smoking, and some was due to unpleasant posts that were violating the Message Board Rules and Guidelines.
My apologies to anyone whose valid posts were caught up in this. To those of you who made the offending posts, I would hope you know who you are. If not, please reacquaint yourselves with the Message Board Rules and Guidelines.
Third, as many others have already pointed out (albeit sometimes with slightly less tact and tolerance than I would like) and I have explained several times in the past, PvP zones (including Recluse's Victory) are just that - PvP zones. If you choose to enter them, you are consenting to PvP. Other players in a PvP zone are doing absolutely nothing wrong if they attack you. They're doing what the zone is designed for. If you don't like being attacked by other players, don't enter the zone.
My apologies if any of this sounds blunt, but it really is that simple. I can't think of a clearer way to explain it.
Yes, RV offers a variety of cool things and nice rewards. This is because it's a PvP zone - the risk is high, so the rewards are high. If Cryptic were to add a PvE version of RV (ignoring for a moment whether such a zone would make any sense), I would fully expect the rewards to be reduced to match the reduced risk that such a zone would present.
Finally, implying that people who enjoy PvP - and thus go to the PvP zones to participate in it - are stupid, immoral, selfish, immature or otherwise lacking in some way is not very helpful. Comments of this nature are almost guaranteed to kick off something unpleasant, so please avoid them in future.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone should remember that everyone else has an opinion too and it's not always going to be the same.
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I wanted to sig that, but I've run out of characters .
I DEMAND A DATAMINE!
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The US forums have a 300 character limit. We used to have a 300 character limit on the COV side of the forums and a 200 character limit on the COH side. They upgraded the software (or something) and chose to have a common limit of 200 characters on the EU side.
The US get 300. We get 200.
Personally I think we have reason for complaint.
Edit: I've just sent Bridger an e-mail asking about the difference in signature limits.
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And, as I explained in response, I was not aware that the limits were different. I'll get it sorted out - they should be the same.
Much appreciated Now I'll be able to close my colour tags again.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
I just open the ubb tags and leave em that way - closing em takes up too many characters as is.
300 would be nice though
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On topic PvP does absolutely nothing for me. I'm not a PvPer and dont like PvP. Not fun for me.
I expect to be looking around the different PvP zones on most of my toons at one time or another.
Now I'll be doing this just to explore, to try out the missions, maybe see if I can find a badge or two.
If any of you you "eeeevil PvP G33kz0rz" attack me... well expect a good kicking (or for me to faceplant).
After all, we can all agree that just because it's a PvP zone, I dont HAVE to be there to PvP right? So long as I just accept the risk of getting jumped and stomped, right?
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Absolutely, I have plenty of friends who dont like to PvP and some of them do badge etc, they do go to PvP zones to do so and thats all fine the big thing is these people would never whinge about being attacked in a PvP zone, they understand the risk and are happy with it, should some halfwit grief them by I dunno teledebting them over and over whilst crowing on broadcast then they might well petition and should too, but they dont go all "Oh I am a badger leave me alone!!" over broadcast or send tells going "No killing me its not fair!". That attitude is all good by me, good people are good people more of em plix.
Most of us "eeeevil PvP G33kz0rz" are pretty resonable fun lovin' folks and will be nice and love a chat and a laugh like everyone else, the image of us crouching over our keyboards scowling, hammering buttons and being all "Die n000b! DIE!" as we chase down badgers amuses me muchly I am there for fun not to give myself a heart attack and the number of times I have stopped to answer a tell or have a chat and been killed by my own idiocy is prolly quite high.
PvP is fun for some and not for others all I ever ask is mutual respect and common sense about PvP zones.
Cheers,
White
They're gonna be mighty annoyed in the US when you reduce their sig lengths to 200, I reckon.
I'm only a rare visitor to PvP zones (well, RV I go to more frequently) but each and every time I enter one I do so with the assumption that I'll be attacked. Even if I'm only in BB to get Shivan's I know I'm a target, and I treat the villains I see the same. Like everyone else I really dont get the "it's not fair to attack me in a PvP zone if I dont want you to" attitude. Sorry.
If someone attacks you unexpectedly and you'd like to try reasoning with them I'd suggest speaking to them before you pop off to the hospital. Some will make a deal, some won't, but no one is obliged to.
But feeling ticked off because you've lost your heavy when you were only there to farm XP is entirely unreasonable in my opinion. Heavys are limited and if you have one to farm XP it's one less chance of someone else having one to use in PvP. Insisting that you should be allowed to keep it and be left alone, thus depriving others in the zone of using it for the very purpose the zone is designed for seems pretty unreasonable to me I'm afraid.
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I just open the ubb tags and leave em that way - closing em takes up too many characters as is.
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Yeah, I figured that out only recently so I've been leaving out the closing tags in my signature since It'll be nice to be able to stick another few of my rotation of alts in when it's upped.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
I am a badge-[sexual entertainment professional].
I PvP sometimes, but mostly I go into the PvP zones for badges, nukes and shivans. If I get approached while collecting these things, I hit Instant Healing, draw my sword and say in local (I even have a bind for it) "I'm not here to fight, are you going to be a problem?".
Most of the time, the prospective PvPer says something like "get your badge/Nuke/Shivan, then I'll go for you".
Sometimes they just laugh and attack.
Either way, I fight, right then or later. I had to get quite good at PvP to get my 400 rep badge, and I had to do *something* while waiting for the time-spent badges...
As it says on the way in; "This is a Player versus Player zone, do not enter unless you are willing to be attacked by other players.".
No sympathy for the OP.
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They're gonna be mighty annoyed in the US when you reduce their sig lengths to 200, I reckon.
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ilmao
well I for one agree with Amellie, as ud expect.
and as u will also i expect i couldnt give a damn if u wanna pvp or not, just leave ones that arent the feck alone! >.<
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and as u will also i expect i couldnt give a damn if u wanna pvp or not, just leave ones that arent the feck alone! >.<
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NO!
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In fact, there was only one instance I can remember where I *DID* have a row with someone over PvP, in Warburg. I'd spent ages getting my scientists, and on the last one, some swine ganked me and took my hard work away. When I asked him if that was REALLY necessary (It was a hero, so my getting a nuke didn't cause him any problems), his answer was, "Cause I felt like it". He didn't want the nuke himself, he just wanted to wreck someone elses fun.
[/ QUOTE ]I doubt it was "wrecking someone elses fun", but rather "having fun by killing a character in a PvP zone"...
Also, he could hardly know you were on the last scientist at that point, could he?
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Well what can I say. It was certainly an ill advised posting. Little did I understand the complete lack of tollerance for the way other people, who pay as much to play this game as everyone else, may like to enjoy the game. I will indeed steer clear of RV as you all so eloquently suggest. Thats one less person for you harrass over and over again I guess. Chalk it up as a victory for the 'how dare they play in my zone without my permission' brigade. Looks like there will be many more.
Signing off, with tail between legs
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Okay so you have totally disproved your statement about not being stupid.
Sorry, but calling people intolerant and accusing them of harassment just because you are in the wrong really takes the biscuit.
YOU decided to enter a zone with warnings, YOU decided to try to alter how people play in that zone and ultimately, YOU are the one who decides whether or not to go in there and risk death or being attacked.
Using your own quote, PVPers pay as much for the game as you do and are entitled to play as they wish in a zone that is ENTIRELY PVP, it is not harassment to PVP in a PVP zone, if anything you are harassing PVPers.
It is also not a case of "permission" to play in RV, just that people such as yourself use commonsense when using the zone, something you seem to have a distinct lack of, unfortunately.
Sorry for the rant, but posts and attitudes like yours are incredulous and disprove your "I get PVP zones" altogether.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
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well I for one agree with Amellie, as ud expect.
and as u will also i expect i couldnt give a damn if u wanna pvp or not, just leave ones that arent the feck alone! >.<
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AHAHAHAHAHA.....thats funny 
SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"
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well I for one agree with Amellie, as ud expect.
and as u will also i expect i couldnt give a damn if u wanna pvp or not, just leave ones that arent the feck alone! >.<
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I really am astounded by this view point. If you go into a PvP zone, you should expect PvP by definition. How clear does it need to be made that, "If you don't want to participate in PvP, then don't enter a PvP zone". There is no way on EARTH (especially not in Paragon) that a PvPer should have to ask another player in a zone especially designed for the purpose whether or not he or she can attack them!
The other point in all of this is, that even if you ARE attacked in a PvP zone, other than the minor inconvenience of going back to the hospital, what is the problem if you're beaten? You can't enter a PvP zone until you're level 15, so by then you're almost certain to have a travel power, and if you are beaten in PvP by another player (as opposed to by an NPC mob) you wont suffer any debt.
If you want to complain about player conduct, then do it about something that is actually worth complaining about, like spamming broadcast with [censored], or other players telling you what powers you should or shouldn't have (which in themselves are hardly worthy of note).
This topic has been done to death over and over, and it amazes me how something so simple appears to be so difficult to grasp by some.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
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I have to say I'm in agreement with the majority of the board here, the basic "rule" is that it is a PvP zone which will allow other players to attack you. Whether they decide to or not is that player's personal decision, the same way that you deciding to enter the zone for EXP is yours.
My main character is a badge-hunter (a very squishy Corrupter at that) built for support and doesn't hold her ground in PvP. The times that I've entered a PvP zone with her I've been fully aware that people may attack me whilst I'm going about my own business but that has never troubled me as I feel that they are entitled to play in this zone as they see fit (aside from griefing), and personally I find no pleasure in trying to bend other peoples' playing habits to my will for my own benefit.
I levelled Seventh Legion from 45-50 in RV with solid playing (and lots of SBs) and for the most of it that was fine and a lot of people let me be. When I was being attacked by another player I'd try to hold my own (or sometimes stand there if I was too mind numbed from playing for so long), but I lost most times. When scouting to see if there were any heavies around and realising that the one I had was taken I was of the "Fair enough" mindset, killing me had freed up my heavy for someone else who wanted it and whilst I did want to pour a lot of my time in RV I saw nothing wrong with someone else using the heavy I'd been hogging.
I've been lucky to pick up heavies from people that have fallen and I wouldn't expect a harsh /tell demanding it back. This doesn't apply to everyone, myself included, but there is an "each to their own" theme in PvP zones (teaming or otherwise) and what is bad for one person may benefit the other greatly. That's the way I feel the zones work and I'm not there to upset the balance by complaining that I don't like the "rules".
I understand your point of frustration, but you also have to be open to understand other people's views as well if you're going to start a debate about respect. It's unfortunate for people who have little time to play and want fast EXP from the zone, but every player is made aware of the risks and more or less agree to them by entering. If you don't agree, don't go into the zone. It's blunt and harsh but very simple.
I'm repeating myself here but RV is a PvP zone, everyone is competing in some form whether or not they are in a team. You'll get people who will let you be and you'll also get people that will attack you on sight, as well as many different types in between. It's the flavours of having so many different people on the internet. Your opinion is as valid as theirs, and the likelihood of them changing their opinion is the same as you changing yours.
Right at the risk of getting back on topic, my 2 inf and this might turn into a long one.
Dont usually do this but since I am gonna express some pretty strong opinions a little background on myself and a disclaimer. I am a pretty balannced player I PvE plenty and have my 2 50s and various alts to show for it, I also involve myself in the community and having fun as often as I can. I am now I guess a fairly ardent PvPer and I am often in the zones or the arena, its something different to PvE for me and a good few close mates of mine PvP too and we have a blast mostly. The following are my opinions and experiences not intended to offend anyone but rather to further the disscussion at hand ...
I am pretty much beyond bored with this attitude from the non PvPers in PvP zones. I really fail to get it tbh the warnings are clear and honest from the PvP zone contacts how you can get from
Warning this is a Player v Player zone do not enter unless you are willing to be attacked by other players
to
Warning this is a Player v Player zone But if you want to badge/xp mine you can expect that you wont be attacked and are totally within your rights to get testy and whinge when you are
frankly escapes me.
I have had so many of these experiences that it can begin to do my head in, quick example to illustrate this is from a real experience but no names and these are paraphrased and may be badly remembered
Sirens
-I site a target who is my bounty and my team and I procede to take them down
A: "I am badging dont attack me!"
Me: "You were my bounty sorry but this is a PvP zone"
A: "I am badging dont attack me!"
-This repeats a couple times with A as bounty at one point they offer to give inf if I dont attack, I explain bounty offers rewards that cant just be bought SOs and Strength of Will insps.
-Later same target is my bounty again and that of a teammate I warn the target that they are my bounty to avoid more repeats, we engage and my team win
A: "I am badging dont attack me go kill someone else!!!!"
Me: "You were my bounty!"
A: "You just dont get it do you, dont attack me I am badging!!!"
This sort of thing drives me off my head its ridiculous and tbh I am confused as to how it can happen. Its a PvP Zone for Pete's sake! its all explained.
To those who dont like to PvP:
I respect your choice PvP is not everyones cup of tea and you have the right to not PvP but and I cannot stress this enough never ever under any circumstances enter a PvP Zone and assume you have the right to complain when you are attacked, unless you are being griefed you dont, end of. As an aside if you are being griefed then its likely the "Evil hardcore PvPers" like me who will be first in line to defend you and offer apologies for the behaviour of the idiots that do that sort of thing, Why would we help/defend you? you ask. Because we want you to have good PvP experiences, that way you can come back and more fun can be had by all.
To the OP: I am sad that you had a bad experience but imo you had utterly unrealistic expectations of the zone and had ignored clear and visable warnings about the nature of the Zone, if the devs wanted RV to be a "PvP but only if you feel like it" Zone they would call it one and have a system to opt out of PvP in there, they dont so its free fire, the end. I deeply hope you can contiunue to enjoy CoH but PvP Zones are there for a reason.
Apologies if this post was longwinded but I feel very strongly about this stuff and I am only expressing my own views.
Cheers,
White